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Which one 300 Win Mag or 338-06
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<fastfire80>
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Hi Everybody;
I read all the postings above and can't figure out why everybody talks about the 300win and doesn't say anything about a better gun and bullet the 300 wby,with a 180 grain nosler. I reload @ home here on the farm and get to shoot right out of my shop @ distances out to 400 yds.
I tried every kind of powder and bullet and primer to get my 300 wby to shoot better groups and could not use a boat-tail at all because of the 1in 12 twist and more free bore than most rifles on the market today. I loaded bullets @ 1grain increments up to 3300 foot per sec and could get two good shots and then one flier. My best load is wc 867 hodgdon,83 grs @3050 fps. My first gun was a 308 huskvarna then a 270 Voere then a 7mm rem and now for the last 12 years a 300 wby. every one of those guns knocked down elk moose deer and antelope.
The 270 was a little suspect,but if the shot was good and true it did the job too. I hunt with 3 fellows who shoot 300 wbys and 1 guy who shoots a 300-378. For a gun that shoots and has got very good foot pounds at all ranges,my choice is the wby.
I'm not in the position to go to Africa and shoot those bigger caliber guns,but for Alberta,Sask and BC hunting the 300 seems fine.
If there is anybdy out there that can help me get better than 1 inch groups @ 100 yds it would be appreciated. By the way all of us have muzzle brakes and we all wear ear plugs.It knocked the kick down from 27 lbs to 19 lbs and it sure is nice to see the bullet hit.
This is a great website and good ideas from good hunters
Thanks RB.
 
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<cubdriver>
posted
Ray
The comment, "Around the alders and in tall grass" was in reference to close encounters with brown bears that we often experience when hunting Kodiak Island, not shooting thru the brush...sorry, I should have clarified that. I agree completely with your statement on brush guns.

The point I was trying to make was that the 338-06 with a well constructed 250gr bullet would have an advantage over a 300 Win Mag with a 200gr well constructed bullet in that particular situation IMHO. Although, the 375 H&H would be preferable.

I'm not saying that a 338-06 is a "dangerous game" rifle, I'm just saying that where big bears might be a consideration, as they are here, it bores bigger holes deeper than the 300 Win Mag.


I don't know anyone that loads a 220 Nosler partition out of a 300wm, but Finn Aagaard wrote in the 1997 Dec-Jan issue of Handloader Magizine that a 30-06 220 Nosler Partiton at 2560 fps outpenatrated a 338-06 250 Partition at 2535 fps (by less than 1/2 inch) in his tests. I to believe the 220 NP is seriously underrated as a killer of big beasts.


I have killed Caribou beyond 300 yds with the 338-06 210 NP at 2800 fps mv. Here again the cartridge is up to the task, however, very seldom are all the conditions right to take that long of a shot.

So, as usual, it comes down to personal preferences and the shooters ability/judgement with emphasis on the latter.

 
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Rob1SG
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CUB,
What is the load data for the 210 in 338-06
 
Posts: 1111 | Location: Edmond,OK | Registered: 14 March 2001Reply With Quote
Atkinson
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Clubdriver,
I use the 220 NOsler in my 300 H&H quite a bit, in Africa...It is a real killer and equal perhaps to my 338 with 250 gr. Noslers but not equal to my 338 with 300 Gr. Woodleighs...The 300 H&H will handle the 220's much better than the 300 Win. with its short neck, an it gets better velocity because of the long neck, but not enough to concern any but the technicions..

This is all asumption based on observation of a number of kills but, who knows, it may just be all in my mind as the difference is vague, at best.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

 
Posts: 42210 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
<cubdriver>
posted
RobSG1
The load that I have worked up is 57.0 grains of IMR-4064, W-W cases and Fed 210-m primers with the Nosler 210. IMR 4320 gave good accuracy but couldn't quite achieve 2800 fps mark that I had hoped for. I can get both with 4064... but, at or vary near max pressure.
This is NOT a starting load. Work them up carefully!

I haven't tried any of the VV powders yet, I've heard good things about them.

CD

 
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<duckster>
posted
I am going to stir the pot and put in another vote for the .35 Whelen. My Whelen gets 2630 fps from the Federal Premium with the 225 grain TBBC. I have never had a game animal require a second shot, up to and including eland.
 
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<Reloader66>
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Hunting produces one solid concrete fact, and that is it never happens no matter how well you plan. Are you over gunned or under gunned? Will my bullet of choice do the job intended? Can I make the shot when the opportunity presentes itself? Should I get no shot at all the worry about the right choice of cartridges to use means nothing.
The heavier the bullet, the larger the case, the more felt recoil the shooter must endure. The 300 Win Mag is and has been for years one of the finest most accurate game getting cartridges ever developed in my view. In heavy brush with dangerous game like brown bears the only medicine that can work in close quarters is the 12 guage slug with open sights. No centerfire rifle can equal it's stopping power period.
With that out of the way, your choice of rifles for your hunt should be the one you can be most consistant with in the accuracy department.
Then comes the most logical bullet selection for the size of the game animal to be taken. Game weights from 100 to 300lbs. the 115 to 150 grain bullet is best. Game weights from 300 to 1000lbs. the 165 to 180 gr. bullet. Game weights over 1000 lbs. such as Moose, bullet weights should be 180 to 220 grs.
The 300 Win Mag. can and will do the job with all those weight bullets with velocity to spare. Granted there are many fine cartridges that fire larger diameter and heavier bullets, but the shooter must be able to deliver those bullets to the intended target consistantly. If he can not, then he is over gunned.
Many new cartridges now on the market surpass the 300 Win. Mag. in velocity, but by only a small margin. In my view the 300 Win. Mag. is the very best choice for any hunting venue you choose. From 25 yards to 400 yards the 300 Mag will do the job time after time with power to spare.
 
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Paul H
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quote:
Originally posted by Reloader66:
In heavy brush with dangerous game like brown bears the only medicine that can work in close quarters is the 12 guage slug with open sights. No centerfire rifle can equal it's stopping power period.


No offense intended, but you are clueless as to what a stopping rifle is compared to a shotgun with slugs. You can let yogi get in close with your scattergun, and I'll pack my 500 Jeffrey, and then we'll see what a stopping rifle is, and what a scattergun isn't. For large dangerous game you need penetration, and slugs lack that in spades.

The reason the 12 ga is recomended for a backup gun is because they are cheap, not because they are up to the task.

 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
Rob1SG
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I agree with Paul 100%. I have a friend who shot a boar with a 12GA slug at 10 ft didn't even stop it. I would take a 338-06 with a 270 A-Frame or a 35 Whelan with a 300 gr. over the 12 GA any day and I don't consider them up to stopping a charging Brown Bear.
 
Posts: 1111 | Location: Edmond,OK | Registered: 14 March 2001Reply With Quote
Gatehouse
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I'd have to (somewhat) agree with Paul regarding the shotgun. Although 12 gu slugs can pack a whallop, they can't compare to a big centerfire rifle.

If I know I'm going to get into a fight with a bear, I'll be taking a rifle. Now, I don't have a big double, but I think my .338 would do okay. (I'm assuming your .500 is a double??)

However, I often pack a shotgun when in the bush, if I'm not actually hunting. The reason isn't necessarily that they are cheap- it's that they are handy. I can sling a 18 or 14" barrel pumpgun loaded with slugs over my shoulder and barely notice it. No bolt handle, no scope to get in the way, etc. The idea is that any gun is better than the one you left in the truck...

Plus, it IS cheap my Mossberg pump gun with the black plastic stock has been through it all and still works fine, and I don't worry about it's looks. Believe me, you DON"T want your fine double rifle kicking around in the bottom of a pontoon boat while spending a week fishing on a river in BC

I guess if I was always around big grizzlies I'd pack the rifle anyway...

 
Posts: 3082 | Location: Pemberton BC Canada | Registered: 08 March 2001Reply With Quote
<Safarischorsch>
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rob1SG:
I was looking over some Magazines and reloading manuals and comparing the two. With 180gr. bullets they both are about at the 3000 fps level (2950 for a factory 300 WM) and then the 338-06 starts with the heavier bullets all the way to 275 gr. Which would you select and why do you think a factory load isn't commonly available for the 338-06 ?

Well i shoot 300winmag and 8x68S and i prefer the 8x68S with 196grain CDP-bullet from Blaser. But a 338-06 is too exotic. If i were you i would take a 8x68S or the 300winmag.

 
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Rob1SG
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Safaris, Welcome to the forum.Thanks for the opinion
 
Posts: 1111 | Location: Edmond,OK | Registered: 14 March 2001Reply With Quote
Paul H
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Gatehouse,

The 500 Jeffrey is a magazene rifle round, mine is being assembled on a P-14 enfield, I'm hoping to get the barreled action by year end so I can stock it, and finally start shooting it.

I agree about packability, and for a packable weapon its my Ruger 480, not that I think any handgun is ideal, but I'd imagine it pushing a 460 gr hard cast bullet at 1050 fps would handily outpenetrate a 12ga slug.

 
Posts: 7213 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 27 February 2001Reply With Quote
Gatehouse
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Paul
sounds like a neat gun. What are you intending to use it for once it's built? (I know- ANYTHING I WANT! )

Hard cast bullets from a big revolver will really make an impression, and if I could legally pack a handgun, I would, but I wonder about the difference in "stopping power" between it and a slug.

I personally know about a couple of grizzlies being stopped by shotguns, and I've read accounts or have heard about many more, but don't know of many handgun situations.

Personally, I'd feel better with the shotgun, as I think it would offer better aiming ability, and would be more controllable, and it has been proven. But I have only 5 handguns compared to about 40 long guns, so I'm a bit bias.

Not trying to start a fight, just conversation....

 
Posts: 3082 | Location: Pemberton BC Canada | Registered: 08 March 2001Reply With Quote
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