Reading the 7x57 vs 7mm Remington thread made me wonder: Are we loosing our ability to hunt? My father told me "if you have to take the long shot you aren't much of a hunter."

Today in all the anti-hunting publicity one of their point is that the only thing a hunter does is buy a longrange rifle with a big powerful scope and kill inhumanly the innocent animal.

If you ever watched some of the Gardiner, MT late elk hunts you would agree. Guys with their 30/378, etc taking 500-800 yard shots. At that range they don't know if they hit anything or not. They are too lazy to walk in the deep snow and find out. "I have seen the enemy and it is us."

We have been in such a magnum mania for so long that people take long shots instead of trying to get into a good shooting position. I conscientious hunter should try to make the first shot count and kill the animal as cleanly as he can.

Among the members of the forum I know that hunting ability exists. The problem is the rest of the hunting population.

Well I guess it is time to get to the point. 1) Has the magnum mania in our hunting society caused us to be more inclined to take the longer, questionable shot?

2) Have hunters today failed to develop their stalking ability because of the ability to take the long shot?

3) How many people have you seen practice the 500 to 800 yard shot to be ready to take it under hunting conditions?

Good hunting
Steve

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Every man dies, but not every man really lives!!

[This message has been edited by Santala (edited 08-31-2001).]

In many respects I agree with you Santela...However I still adhere to big heavy calibers for elk in the thick black timber and going away shots that is pretty much life in Idaho elk hunting after the first shot is fired...

In the sagebrush, I'll take a 7x57 or 30-06 and abide by your suggestion...It's just about 16" through a big bull sideways, but its 3or 4 feet lenthwise.....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

There are many ways of looking at this. Some people have to get close as they do not have the ability to accurately shoot beyond 100 yards because their shooting skills are very poor. There are also short range hunters who do not bother to see if they hit their animal or track it if it runs off. Lazy is lazy, no matter what the range. Close range shooting is also not a guarantee of a clean kill as many close range hunters take questionable shots. What is considered long range? Taking a long shot doesn't mean that they are not in a good shooting position or that they cannot kill cleanly. If I have to get close, I get close, if I can take the animal at a distance, I will take it at distance.

Santala:

No I don't think "we " ( whoever that is supposed to mean ) are losing our ability to hunt. Some people just don't have any ability to hunt. Some others are far more intelligent, knowledgeable, skilled, capable and successful than most of our ancestors in the 18th and 19th century. Those who make a study of the animals they hunt really do know all about the animals - how they think, how they act, how to find them, how to trick them and how to kill them. They understand the animals habits, their breeding cycles, their habitat, paths, trails, food, influences of the moon and sun. And they are familiar with the various animals communications systems, languages, glands, scents and anatomy.

Hunters who are in love with the "magnuns" use them because they are there. They use scopes like the Nightforce Civilian Mil Dot, rangefinders and super ballistic bullets because the inventors, manufacturers and marketers put them out to be used. They take the long shots because they can procure the system that can do it. It is done because others do it such as the military snipers, police and benchresters who are forever pushing the envelope - more and better.

There is a 500 club. To become a member you must kill an animal in excess of 500 yards. One fellow reported a kill at 1,076 yards.

But, there have always been various classes of hunters, some road hunters who cruise and blast away at long distances. Then others who get down and dirty and are willing to do the grunt work. And some who still shoot arrows and muzzle loaders.

Kendall Dace

As I see it, there is a big difference between the desire to take the long shot, and the ability to make the long shot. I always use a caliber that will permit long shots IF THE ARE REALLY NEEDED. However, I owe it to the animal I am hunting to make sure it does not suffer needlessly. Therefore, I always try to get as close as possible. In some cases this my be 50 yards. In others, it may be 250 or more. By bringing the proper gun, both are easily made by the right person, in the right circumstances. It all come down to knowing your limits, and sticking within them.
My closest shot was a Whitetail at 17 yards. My longest was a Caribou at a shade over 400. Neither took more than two steps after being hit. Use enough gun, and PRACTICE

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Jay
"For God and Country"

I'll say it again ... sometimes the 400 yard shot is easier than the 100 yard shot. The factors to be considered in such decision processes are endless. General, sweeping statements implying that one can always get closer are of no value and indicative of limited hunting experience.

question #1 Yes
question #2 I am not sure...I don't think so
question #3 I haven't seen anyone do this
There has emerged recently a cult of the long range shot. It probably has always been there but the hardware available today certainly has done a lot for recruitment of new members

I guess I gave the wrong impression by my question. I have spend a lot of time at a private range watching shooters come and go getting ready to go hunting. I have seen that a majority of the individuals do not shoot enough to handle their rifles. I would say less that 1% shoot at over 100 yards. I am not refering to people that take the hunting craft seriously but the so called hunters that we all see in the field.

I have shot elk at 400 plus yards, but I practice shooting at various distances year round. I don't just think that just because I shoot a long range rifle that I can do it. Like Tibbe said you have to get down and dirty. You have to work at being a good hunter. We have the equipment available which allows us to make the extremely long shot. Those long shots depend on the ability of the shooter.

In order to be a hunter you have to practice the crafts of the hunter. As Tibbe said:
"Those who make a study of the animals they hunt really do know all about the animals - how they think, how they act, how to find them, how to trick them and how to kill them. They understand the animals habits, their breeding cycles, their habitat, paths, trails, food, influences of the moon and sun. And they are familiar with the various animals communications systems, languages, glands, scents and anatomy."

Tibbe, the "we" is the hunting population in general. There are hunters (which are like the members of this forum) and there are those that take their rifle for a walk in the woods. In the view of the general public we are judged by the worst representative.

Nickudu, You are right about always getting closer. The opportunities on a good animal are often a split second.

My Father wasn't a trophy hunter and his statement when I was 8 was important. My father was one of those Colorado hunters that hunted with a light rifle and thought that the only place to shoot anything was in the head. Of course he did it for forty years.

I did not mean to offend anyone with my question. With hunting season starting shortly the ranges are active again.

Steve

Hi Guys

My opinion for what it is worth. Years ago before the advent of the more powerful and more accurate rifles with scopes, you had to stalk in closer for the killing shot. That does not mean "we" are losing our hunting skills it merely means "we" are getting more opportunity to take our game.For years I stuck to open sights because scopes were considered to expensive,and the old fashioned idiom that it was just something else to go wrong with your gun, but after having used one the first time I was converted, and was able to take longer shots with justification and confidence. Just to prove my point that "we" aren't losing hunting skills, I sneaked right up to a young stag last weekend and grabbed it by the back leg and yelled at it - the bloody thing fainted with fright and dropped on the spot, after about 2 minutes it came to and bolted, none the worse for wear.

Steve H

Steve H, Very good. I did the same thing with a mule deer doe once and it stomped me good.

Steve

[This message has been edited by Santala (edited 08-31-2001).]