I'm curious about how the general US hunter goes about things.

AR is probably an unrepresentative cross section of hunters but is it me or is there a increased move towards outfitted hunts? I have a perception that some don't even entertain DIY.

I can see why there would be an increased tendancy for US hunters to go the outfitted route (short seasons, huge areas, lower game densities, recovery issues with larger game etc etc) but I wonder if some of it is due to an increased desire for trophies or the increasing desire for quick results which seems all pervasive nowadays.

Just interested.

It all boils down to time and the quality of the hunts IMO.

My family used to load down several vehicles and travel from North La to Colorado or Wyoming. Most times a week early to do scouting. After all of the years of trips only a few nice animals were taken and tag soup was the norm. It's gotten pretty pathetic in the last decade or so due to the huge amount of hunters on public land throughout the West. It's no longer an peaceful experience in the great outdoors when the countryside is speckled in orange vest.

That said, I'll only go on outfitted hunts on private property now as well as some DIY hunts as long as it is private property.

My thinking is along these lines: I can go on 3 DIY public land hunts for elk spending about 1500 each hunt and eating tag soup or I can wait 3 years save 4500 and go on a outfitted fully guided private land hunt, see tons of elk, and see no other hunters.

Also, I don't have the time to take 2-3 weeks and go on a hunt. I can manage 5-6 days at a time and that's it.

If it were hunting 10 miles down the road where I had time to put in the leg work, it would be different. Not so easy thousands of miles away.

Good Luck

Reloader

i believe that you are seeing many more outfitted hunts than you did a few years ago. reason - the places people used to go on their own have been had their hunting rights bought up by outfitters.

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
i believe that you are seeing many more outfitted hunts than you did a few years ago. reason - the places people used to go on their own have been had their hunting rights bought up by outfitters.

Or hunting clubs.

Yep. The places that were once available to the average hunters are quickly being swallowed up by outfitters, forcing more people onto public land resulting in poor hunting. Then they talk about how they take such great care of the game and the habitat and such. What a crock. Last winter there were dead antelope all over the place, all of which died due to starvation. Lack of hunting access caused these populations to explode, and every bit of forage was gone, causing a long, painfull winter for many antelope. Another example is the whitetail deer and elk on the face of the bighorns. When you can see over 1000 whitetails on a hay field, it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that there's a problem. Sure, now a guy can shell out the cash and shoot a great buck on one of these outfitted hunts, but it's the local working guy who gets screwed. And we wonder why kids don't hunt these days.

There are guided hunts here in Arizona but it will be on public land... There are many large ranches that allow hunting on their property up to a few miles away from the main ranch house area... I'm sure there are ranches that have "private" hunting but I've never looked into it...

Generally the "average" hunter here stands a good chance of success... I can't say my hunting partner and I have had good success over the past couple of hunts but we'll see how that goes here again in a few days for the early cow elk season... It seems AZ is pretty well managed but it is generally by draw only for the animals most people want to hunt...

We simply pack up either my 5th wheel or his trailer and head north for about 5 hours and we're ready to go... The season is a week at a time for most species with several having "gender" seasons... I look forward to it everytime we get drawn and fortunately it's not a field of blaze orange here... We might see another hunter the entire week (other than the ones that might be parked just down the road from us)...

Ken....

quote:

Originally posted by 1894mk2:
I'm curious about how the general US hunter goes about things.

I went on one well-guided elk hunt in Montana, and one drop-camp hunt in Alaska. Both were interesting, not so expensive, but back in mid-80s. Since then I've gone DIY only, most times on BLM land, and rarely gotten skunked. I'm not a trophy hunter, just like to sit around a fire at night and get a little something for the freezer. Guys who want trophy animals and only have a few days to spend have more limited options...

i think what you are seeing is a by-product of the era. people want instant gratification. they want the big results without having to or being unable to (for whatever reason) spend the effort or time to get there on thier own.
no doubt its everywere you look.
Tivo and on Demand TV, micro cell phones with IM and Email, drive thrus ect ect. people want what they want NOW!
Look how many people are living off credit so they can live above their means.
Its a vending machine generation and if you are the type who enjoys the work as much as the pay off then we are both antiques.

I got a book buck two years ago with my bow. I figure it took $15,000 worth of my time and expenses. My time isn't worth much but a business man who can make perhaps hundreds or thousands an hour is better off working and paying someone else to scout. That said I'd only hire an outfitter if I was going out of country.

the chef

I think it is safe to say (if not I know I will be corrected) that hunters average age is increasing along with their accumulated wealth. Couple that with the fact that many of the older hunters prefer, if not require help and a higher degree of safety.

If true, it is in my case, we are playing right into the hands of younger, stronger outfitter/guides. In my opinion this is not overall a bad thing, at least allowing me and those in the same boat continued time in the field.

In this regard instant gratification is not the driving force although I agree that much of our lives do tend in that direction.

Just my $0.02.

I've got my think skin on today so i'll put in from the outfitter /guide angle. Firstly I'll play my ace card and say that being from NZ there are some big differences in the status of our game and the way we hunt it.

That aside there are parallels. There is little doubt in my mind that guided hunts are a time=money =results formula.
Hunters in general do not have the time available to get away from work for the nessecary time to scout and hunt, they have calculated that is more economical for them to hire those that have the time.
The second issue is access, guides have rightly or wrongly secured large tracks of private land that enables them and there hunters to hunt safely and successfully.

Success is a double edged sword, if, as a client you are paying for a service then you have the right to expect results. Results came from having private access and hopefully, and this I think is where alot of guides/outfitters can go astray, good herd management and hunter management.

There is no future in shooting all next years trophies ,if your operation is trophy based. If you go the trophy direction then you have to have a large number of management hunts to maintain herd dynamics.
This brings us back to private lands/ public land debate.

My take on this and its a NZ view that may or may not be relavant in the States is that if there is good management on public lands of both hunters and animals then the conflict(envy) towards private land isn't fuelled.

That there may be an oppotunity cost, ie lost of access to the younger less financal hunter is an issue that I personally attempt to remedy by using this group for my management hunts.

This is only from my experience, and my opinions.

Here in the US, we are going to the all guided/canned hunts. I have been on a few, and to be honest it makes me a bit sick (a client offered a couple to us, and it would have been bad form to refuse).

I see more and more guys out in the field who don't know the first thing about hunting bragging about their "trophy" that they shot in a small high fenced area. What is worse, is that I see more people who don't even know how to shoot (I don't me shoot well, but shoot safely!) going to these operations.

There is a place for guides, a big place. If I ever get to go on an elk hunt, it will be a guided hunt. I don't have the time to drive or fly two thousand miles to do the scouting myself.

But there is a difference between a guided hunt, and shooting a penned animal. I am seeing a lot more of the latter.

I think there is something to be said for both kinds of hunts.
Personally I could handle an Elk hunt DIY but if it were Polar Bear you can bet I'd have a guide. Also true for waterfowl. I was not raised hunting ducks like I was hunting deer, hogs, turkey etc. So the first time I went on a serious duck hunt I went with an outfitter who knew what ducks to shoot and which ones not to.
I've taken a lot of guys hunting that had never killed hogs, they had hunted lots of other animals but never wild hogs, especially with dogs, so they paid me to take them. They weren't looking for instant gratification or trophies in all cases, they just wanted the experience of hunting in a way they had never hunted before.

I started reading various hunting and shooting forums about 10 years ago. It was, and continues to be, unbelievable to me how many folks pay for guides, outfitters, leases, etc. I certainly appreciate and respect the reasons why some folks have no real viable alternative to these tariffs, but I will not be a party to any of it. I am 60 years old and have hunted public land all of my life. The day I have to pay a dime to an outfitter to kill a damn elk is the day I am done shooting them. CP.

Certainly living in Montana a little less likely to NEED a guide than say a Texan going to Montana to hunt say an elk for five days!

We all realize exceptions based on locale, time limits, age/health, etc.

Great for you but NOT for everyone.

I concur with muygrande and others. I live in Michigan and hunting there is not what it used to be by any means. That being said, I have went oon 2 guided hunts, one was successful and one was basically a waste of my time. I am going back this year not to get a guaranteed shot or to shoot something in a fence. I am going to HUNT. The outfitter gets me access to ground I owuld not have access to, I glass for the animal, I stalk the animal, I shoot the animal and I derag the animal a hell of a long ways to the truck. I am hunting with one outfitter from MT again this year and it is like going to your family's house for dinner. I doubt that I would have such an opportunity DIY. However I am currently working in CO and have been stomping the mountains scouting for next year, so I might try a DIY hunt next year here in CO. I would never thinkof wasting my money coming in cold from across the country and trying it. I have heard way too many horror stories of people being run off public land and mistakenly gotten on leased or private land. I guess it is just how it goes these days, I suspect it won't get any better.

quote:

Originally posted by CP:
I started reading various hunting and shooting forums about 10 years ago. It was, and continues to be, unbelievable to me how many folks pay for guides, outfitters, leases, etc. I certainly appreciate and respect the reasons why some folks have no real viable alternative to these tariffs, but I will not be a party to any of it. I am 60 years old and have hunted public land all of my life. The day I have to pay a dime to an outfitter to kill a damn elk is the day I am done shooting them. CP.

+

AMEN, cp- i thank God quite often that i live in montana.