Regarding these RedHead boots from BassPro, would you waterproof them or not, and why?



More warmth than ever - 1200 grams of Thinsulate� Ultra Insulation
GORE-TEX� bootie for guaranteed waterproof protection
Moisture-wicking Cambrelle� lining
Full-grain waterproof leather
Shock absorbing midsole
Removable polyurethane footbed
Lightweight EVA/Blown rubber outsole
Tempered steel shank

To earn the Treestand name, you'd better be building a boot that's made for the rigors of big-game hunting. One that's warm, durable, 100% waterproof, extremely comfortable to wear and easy to care for. One that's as eager for the hunt as you are. Our Treestand II is that boot. You'll find premium quality right down to the finest details - from the finest leathers to the best GORE-TEX� bootie available. Color: Rust Brown. Avg. weight: 4.5 lbs. Imported.

AquaSeal? Nikwax? Just a seam sealer? Nothing? Why or why not?

I wrote to BassPro asking about them (I now own a pair) and got a very short, terse response from "Barbara" that no, they don't need waterproofing, they're already waterproof.

Do I take "Barbara" at her word? Do I fill the tub and stand in it, wearing my boots, to test them, or what?

I wanted to ask RedHead directly, but couldn't find a name/number/address to use in contacting them.

Thanks.

Russ

I take every pair of boots and coat the hell out of them with SnowSeal paying particualr attention to the seems. I try to do this before it gets cool so I can set them in the sun and let the grease heat up and soak in.

Waterproof things aren't just like earthquake proof structures aren't.

CA Mike

YES! Give um a coat or two or three. Why? Theres no such thing as waterproof leather, only water resistant. The more resistance the better.

Russell, you did ask RedHead. That is just a brand name for stuff Bass Pro has made just for them. I always apply extra waterproofing anyway. I just make sure they are clean and then either use silicone spray or sno-seal. I don't trust GoreTex because the lining can come apart or will leak if it is not sewn in properly.

Something else: Regardless of how much water-proof the boots are, in cool to cold weather the insoles will be moist from perspiration. I take two or three pairs of insoles, and each evening I remove the "wet" ones from the boots and replace them with a dry pair.

Also, if the boots footbeds (underneath of the insoles) are made of a spongy substance, it is very difficult to keep it dry unless you use some type of electric boot dryer. For that reason alone, I always take two or three pairs of boots when hunting in Alaska.

Well, after surfing the 'Net rather extensively, I ordered three Nikwax products (a cleaner, conditioner, and waterproofer). I think I'll be good to go.

Ray, great idea on the insoles, thank you.

I can't afford three pairs of boots like these -- not if I want to hunt.

I've thought about the boot dryers, but always figured I'd go with propane -- because I figure propane would be a weeeeeeeeeee bit more practical in the field -- but I've always figured the airlines would harp about "flying with propane." I don't think the puddle-jumper guys would have a beef about it, though, so maybe I could just take the dryer equipment along and purchase propane before flying out to camp (in Alaska, for instance). Here in the Continental 48, I don't think "propane" would present much of a logistics problem.

I've got tons of "GOOD" liner socks AND socks... so I'll just figure on changing regularly. Something else I'm going to try this winter that I've seen others mention and seems somewhat logical -- anti-perspirant spray, to keep my feet from sweating. Once feet get wet when hunting, the game's over, so to speak. This year, I'm bound and determined to keep my feet warm AND dry.

Thank you, everyone, for the good information.

Russ

I will waterproof only the seams at best...If I want a waterproof boot or a warm boot, I wear my Sorals...

Waterproofing eats stitching and makes the boot hot and your feet sweat...All my leather boots are unlined. Of course their are exceptions to this practice.

I have a pair of leather Matterhorn boots that have a Gore-Tex bootie in them. I have stood in water and wore them in the rain for days at a time. I never added any waterproofing and they never leaked or were soaked through. My feet stayed nice and dry. I have a pair of Rocky Wildcats and Hermans Survivors that are waterproof. I haven't done anything to them either and my feet have never been wet wearing them.

If the boot has a GoreTex bootie it will (should) not need waterproofing in the normal sense. If the boot appears to leak either send it back or contact Gore direct as they will also stand behind there product.

Having said that, you will have to look after the leather like any other boot, just find a product that is "compatable" with Goretex; I am pretty sure normal boot polish would be OK, but again a call to Gore would be the way to go.

About keeping your feet warm,
My daughter rides horses competatively, and because she rides year round the ring is COLD during the winter. We have taken to using the sealed little heat packs that you can buy at the outdoor/sporting goods stores.(I can't remember the brand name)These come in a sealed bag and when you open them a chemical reaction takes place and they warm up and produce heat for 6 to 8 hours. They also have a little sticky surface like a post-it note to attach to your socks.
Since she has been using these in the winter, she hasn't gotten cold feet!

You might want to take enough for twice the number of days!

(I'll edit this this weekend once I find the brand name)

I don't trust boots that claim to be "waterproof" at all. Outside of rubber, there really isn't any leather boot that's truly waterproof. I recommend using whatever sort of waterproofing preparation the respective manufacturer says to go with, then waterproof the living heck out of them.

AD

Waterproof them. The Gore Tex will (or is supposed to) keep the water out. The outside leather will get wet making the boots heaver to walk in. When I got my custom Russell they told me Picards silcone treatment was the best. 3 coats.

As for waterproofing some brands can shorten the life of the stitching. When I worked in the sporting good store (7 years of fun!!) I went to a clinic that said SnoSeal won't rot the threads. It was recommended by LaCrosse footwear. If you waterproof the boot you will lose some breathability. The pore of the leather will soak in the waterproofing material.

I personally waterproof all my boots. My rule of thumb. Snoseal winter pac boots with leather, Silicone cordura and other boots.

Good Luck

My hunting boots are leather/thinsulate. No Gore-Tex. I treat them regularly with Kiwi's Outdoor Leather Mink Oil. I simply clean them with water and nylon brush and let dry for a day or so in the warm garage. I coat the boots HEAVILY with mink oil. I then place the boots in the clothes dryer on the shoe drying rack for about 3 to 5 minutes on the lowest setting. The mink oil melts and soaks into the leather. I keep doing this until the leather won't absorb any more. I then have warm, virtually leak proof boots for most of the the season. I test them after a few months to see if water still beads off. If I see absorption, I treat the boots again the same way.

[ 09-20-2002, 19:18: Message edited by: ksduckhunter ]

Russel

I have talked quite a bit about boots with "My boot guy" He knows his stuff, and I'll tell you what he told me...(I was purchasing a new pair of Meindal boots, probably pretty similar to what you are getting in many repsects- Gor tex, with a light thinsulite lining)

1. Don't use Sno Seal. I had always used Sno Seal but did as he suggested. He said it's not that great with gor-tex, and it's not even that great compared ot some other products...

2. Use a good wax based product. The leather still needs conditioning, and will tend to soak up water without it, so you'll have a heavy, cold boot. He recommended the Meindal wax ( a tub came wiht the boots) or Nikwax as an alternate. He named a couple of others, but I forget now...

3. Put the boots in the dryer on a platform if you have one. It's probably not good to bash them around in there if you don't so use a hair dryer. Get the boots good and hot, then squeeze on the wax, and rub it in well. DON'T put the boots in your oven, ese a propane torch, or a heat gun. The hot leather will absorb the wax. Give it two or more coats the first time.

4. Whenever the toe of the boot starts to look dried out and scuffed, it's time for more wax.

My observations...

I followed his advice, and have never had a problem with leakage in these boots. These boots go half way up my shin. I have walked through deep nasty, sucking mud- uphill for several hours. Some times it was "take one step forward and two steps back" Everyone else's feet were soaking, mine were warm and dry.

Last winter, the water line that feeds my house froze, and I had to muck around with it. It was about -15 Celcius...fairly cold. Water would occasionally shoot from the hose and cover me wiht water, where it would freeze immediately..I was an ICE MAN! For 2 hours, using a flashlight, I mucked with the line. The whole time, I was standing in the creek wiht the water just below the tops of my boots. When I got into the house, my feet where dry. Cold, but dry.

I'm a firm believer in gor-tex boots and waterproof leather. The gor tex is supposed to wick the moisture out of the boot via the top- in fact here are small holes in the front of the tongue on my boot which facilitate this. From what I see, the process works well. My boot is sometimes very slightly damp from persperation, but most of the time it's dry.

I wear thin socks most of the time, to avoid over heating my feet if I'm walking. And change your socks, like you said.

If those boots are 1200 gram thinsulite, they are going to be plenty warm, especially if yo are hiking.

Through the years I've learned about a couple of great products.

The best footwear waterproofing product I've found is NikWax- becuse it's the only one that's water based- go figure.
NikWax

The other is the greatest waterproof/GoreTex breathable oversocks called SealSkinz- incredible socks!
SealSkinz

I'm also a kayaker and I normally wear my SealSkinz socks and my Hodgmans canvas hightop wader boots- feet, jeans- everything stays dry and the Sealskinz socks are 3yrs old now.

I'm a big believer in Mink Oil and apply it liberally every time my boots begin to show signs of "drying out".

Although not many leather boots are truly 100% waterproof, Mink Oil does the job and makes them last longer.

I found a new product a couple of years ago that really cured the water problem with boots. I booked a Quebec Labrador Caribou hunt in Northern Quebec. The terrain is about 50-50 water and land. Many of the hunters opted for hip boots and such but we had an extremely tight weight restriction for the bushplane and I was trying to save weight as well as bulk. I decided to use my regular hunting boots and ordered a pair of Gortex socks from Cabela's. I have extreme foot problems due to previous accidents and surgeries. My feet always give me problems and that was one of the reasons I opted not to take rubber boots. i have trouble bending my ankles far enough to get 'em on. Anyway, I got off track some..sorry. The Gortex socks worked fantastic. My feet never got wet, not even once. I was knee deep in water and muck a lot and my feet stayed dry. At the end of the days, I could pour water from my boots, but my feet were fine. They never even got wet from sweat. I don't know how that works. I don't even care to know, but they work. Good product. Oh, and my feet felt fine in them. Just like wearing an extra pair of socks, which I do anyway. Just passing it on to you.

I wear work boots in wet areas most days up in the mountains, and haven't found any boot itself, aside from the Sorel type, that really keep your feet dry.
For leather boots, plan on some extra dubbing. I use Montana Pitchblend, which is a mixture of beeswax and pine pitch. In heavy brush, where the boots are always in contact with material weari=ng away the protection, about two hours at the best. In wet grass, three hours maybe. I've tried Mink Oil and other preps over the years, and have not been that impressed by any of them for other than casual walks in the woods for a short period. I've never found any that will stand up to serious use in the mountains. Some of the local loggers here render deer fat and use the tallow, and that seems to work well. The only draw back, it lubricates the leather fibers well enough they never stop stretching.
Gortex socks are probably the best bet for dry feet.

Like some of the other guys mentioned I use the SealSkinz waterproof socks. I have tried all types of boots and have never found a pair that were truly waterproof. What I like about the SealSkinz socks is that even if your boots get soaked, you can put on a pair of dry socks under the SealSkinz and have dry feet for the day. They get a little damp from sweating, but I just turmn them inside out in my sleeping bag at night and they are dry the next morning. Have used them on several week long military recon patrols, climbing Mt McKinley last year and on several hunting trips as well. I do not leave home without them

Question: Would the Gore-Tex size-14 socks stretch to 15? (I'm 6'5" tall, weigh 230 pounds, and wear a 15D shoe/boot.) How elastic are these socks?

Thanks for the help, guys.

Russ

The beauty of goretex is that it allows your feet to breath. It works - trust me.

If you plaster goretex boots in wax then the goretex will not be able to breathe!!! You may just as well put plastic bags over your boots and wonder why your feet are suddendly wet - with perspiration.

Thanks, CaptJack, I'll see about getting a few pairs of them.

Russ

I have a pair of Danner calks that I got in 1996.
Been resoled two times. I use Danner shoe dressing or mink oil. Main thing is keep the leather clean and from drying out.
Fuzz

Russ every night when you take off your boots, stuff them FULL of newspaper,if you dont have that paper towels. On trips where I am limited to the amount of stuff I can carry I take two of those camp type towels and stuff my boots with them. I also always have at least two changes of socks and dry them out each night and let them hang in the tent the next day. If your boots become totally submerged I dry them out with several changes of the paper or the camp towels drying out the camp towels on the fire. NEVER dry any leather product by the fire. Also if you must wear soaked boots a pair of Goretex socks will make it bearable.

I have two pair of boots. One is a pair of Lundhags, a Swedish brand, that I bought in 1980 and they are still going strong. I always use plenty of grease before every hunting trip. The leather is almost black ... I also use these boots for work in the summer.

My other boots are a pair of Le Chameau wellingtons with a thick lining of the same material used for wet-suits. They work very well in low temperatures (I dont hunt much below -25 C) but they are to warm for summer-use.

I don't trust these new materials, several of my colleagues have tried various brands with little success. Maybe I'm also an old fart in this respect

I work in a water rich enviroment. The place floods regularly. I wear a pair of Wolverine insulated waterproof wellingtons. They have no Gore-tex liner just treated leather. I have been wearing one pair since Feburary and the only time my feet get wet is when the water goes over the top. Sweat does dampen them but they dry overnight. I haven't used any treatment on them at all. I have also used Gore-tex lined boots with simular results.

Barny

Gentlemen

This seems to be the right topic. I have have an old pair of redwings boots that needs to be re-placed. Is there a good online store in U.S.A or Canada for buying boots/shoes with the right quality. In Sweden there are not much to choose from and I'm quite picky about most things

I have to get more than one pair and have thought about trying a new make. Do yo have any suggestions?

Cheers
/ JOHAN

As mentioned above, you will defeat the wicking properties of the Gore-Tex membrane by snow sealing the outside of your boot.

For cold and snowy conditions, I find it really hard to beat Sorel-type pack boots with felt liners. I usually bring an extra set of liners to camp and just rotate them if they get wet. Unfortunately, I have a narrow foot (12 A) and my foot swims in Sorels without wearing three pairs of socks or ski booties. However, Hoffman�s Boot in Kellogg, Idaho will build a pack boot in just about any length or width, and I had them put up some 12 narrows for me. I think they are still in business, even though most all of the mines and logging have been shut down in the Silver Valley. CP.