Oh yeah, instead of getting a back pack, you might want to make the down payment on a 4x4 tractor-trailer to haul all this "gotta have" shit up the mountain.
I haven't followed this thread that closely but are you planning a hunt or are you gonna winter over????
FYI, don't let them woof you. Every year there are confrontations between rifle hunters and grizzlies over just who owns that elk. Maybe you'd better pack two pistols......big ones, and carry at least a 458.

About the boots: bring duct tape.

After a couple of miles of carrying a heavy pack, you will have blisters on your heels, and a couple of miles later, they will be gone. Your expensive boots will be grinding your high-tech polypropylene sock liners into the raw meat underneath where your blisters used to be. Forget about bandaids. They aren't sticky enough. Moleskin will not do the job either. It's too thick, and it rolls up in a painful carpet roll that grinds on your heel. No, to prevent blisters, tape your heels all the way across the back with a 4" long piece of regular-width duct tape. The tape is tough enough that your socks can't grind through, sticky enough that it won't come off your heel, and slippery enough on the back side that your sock liners just slide over it, saving your heels from the friction.

That said, I am rather bond of a pair of Vasque boots I picked up at the Red Wing store in Fort Collins, CO a few years back. They have a tag inside that says 7721; maybe that's the model number. They're 10" tall at the heel, waterproof, made with Gore-Tex, and Thinsulate insulated.

H. C.

Beeman, you don't know jack-shit about backcountry elk hunting in the northern rockies in Novemeber... that's for damn sure.

Thats ok brad,you don't know jackshit about whites boots.

I grew up on a ranch, used to cowboy for a living and used whites. They are good for that application, but absolutely suck to hike in. Brad's assesment of them is pretty spot on if you ask me.



Chuck

The hell you say. That explains why the forest service uses whites,and most employees pay out of pocket for them by choice. Probably because they are such shit. Whites make packs just like schnee's,including a lighter thinsulate model. If whites advertised in every issue of bugle magazine and spewed their shit,would that make them acceptable.
Whites aren't all designed for horseback,they've got a half dozen variations of their pacs,two models which are equal to and exceed what schnees offers. I've owned several pairs of schnee's pacs and the bottoms wear out twice as fast as the whites do,with equal mileage.

Well, I was Forest Service for many years in Canada's two western provinces; I was born and raised some 165 miles from White's factory. They are superb boots, only equaled by Viberg's from Victoria, B.C., but, they are not that suited to hiking in really steep country. The demands made upon a forestry, especially a fire-fighting boot and a mountaineering boot are not exactly the same.

I have been extremely impressed with my Schnee's and have never used the White's pac boots, so, I can;t say for certain about that, but, it is probably impossible to make a finer fitting pac than a Schnee. I would not want a lighter construction as I had a pair like that from King of the Mtn. in Wyoming which were just crap, I gave them to a half-breed horse wrangler up north years ago.

Have to admit-- i've never used duct tape, and it's been so long since i've had to use mole skin i can't remember if it balled up or not-- but i don't think so-- i think i'd remember that, but maybe not-- sounds like the duct tape has worked, so might be worth a try to have both handy (something i'll have to put in my packs this year, i guess). Most of the blisters i've seen guys get have been on the back of the heel from rubbing up and down on the back of the boot. Fact is i can't remember seeing them anywhere else off hand, but i guess they will form in other places.

Did I also mention that White's ability to make custom fitted boots also sucks. Oh, and so does their customer service.

Chuck

I have wore White boots for as long as I can remember.They work pretty good in logging if you don't have to walk alot like say hooking or choker setting off a highline.A lot of truck drivers and Forest Service people wear them but they usually arn't putting on the miles in the woods running and such.I would never wear my Whites hunting as there to big and heavy to get around quietly for me.There also very supseptable to the cold in the fall and winter.My wife wore them for years in the Forest Circus as she calls it as a surveyor and has stories of the heat and cold also and will not wear hers hunting either.

I prefur tennis shoes or something with a flat sole like the old Red Wings without a heal for hunting and just plain old Sorrels for snow country.

Jusy my opinion.Jayco.

Brad, you are pretty much right. I did most of my elk hunting in the Big Horns and my back packing elsewhere. However, I have enough generic knowledge to know I am not interested in putting what I consider essential to a late fall elk hunt in high country on my back and heading for the rough and remote. I'm sure you routinely do it for months on end.

If you're talking about the bear info, have someone read you a newspaper sometime. They have amazing information in them. I have cut hot scat and tracks in the Big Horns in Nov. (don't know if it was a black or a grizzly, there were no silver bells in the scat nor did it smell like pepper spray)

Bee, only a FOOL carries less than the minimum 10 Essential's and enough gear to sit out a below zero night in heavy snow... but I'm guessing your outfitter carried all your stuff or it was in your vehicle while road hunting. Anyone who's done any serious elk hunting in genuine wilderness far from roads and other people would never make such a stupid statement.

Chuck, Kutenay, Jayco... I suspect we're all in agreement about White's. Perfect for a few application's but very much a specialty boot. I get a kick out of the cowboy-wannabee's that, like the teen female slave of fashion, has to have White's on their feet in order to maintain their "look", better option's be damned!

Best,

Brad

Hunting boots are a very special item, no one boot will work for every hunt. Yes, I am part of the White's owner group. No, I don't care for them as a hiking boot, I have around 15 various pairs of boots for all types of hunting and use what is best for the area being hunted.
I have a pair of Browning's that have served me very well in the mild hunting weather and a pair of old Georgia boots that have been on several back country hunts. I had a pair of Danner's that I felt were junk, gave them away to a fellow hunter Hell, I even hunted in a pair of Nike's one year when the weather was in the high 60's

Jimmy

If your part of that White's owners group, then hows about giving a fellow hunter (me) a pair just because I am a good guy.

Blue

My emergency pack while hunting weighs about 20 lbs and about 30 lbs for winter day to over-night trips; I do backpack in extremely remote areas and have done so for 40 yrs, in every season. I will not go away from my vehicle, aircraft or horse w/o this gear and neither will anyone else I know who is an experienced outdoorsman, recreational or professional, I have been both.

As far as "hot scat" from bears is concerned, combined with fresh tracks, it is easy to distinguish between Grizzly and Black Bear tracks, if you know the major differences between the two. One seldom encounters these animals together as the Grizzlies frequently prey upon Blackies, so, silver bells and pepper spray do them about as much good as they do hikers.

I am definitely going to get a pair of those White's pacs, the uninsulated ones to augment my insulated Schnees and my Mickey Mouse boots, a specialty boot I do like for stand hunting. For some reason, I notice the cold more at nearly 58 than I used to, but, it's those ever-steeper mountains that really piss me off!

So upchuck,what part of the custom fitted boots,does whites fail at. Just curious,since the company I work for has the Whites factory rep.show up yearly to take orders and fit sizes. Out of a couple hundred people in my division alone,I've yet to hear of a complaint. Which is why the company uses whites.

As for customer service. I recieved another persons order last year,at which time I called whites and told them. I talked to the factory rep. and shipped the boots back to them. Within 3 days I recieved the steel toes that I ordered and they sent me a pair of their mountain pacs free,then called me a couple days later and apologized for the mix up and said the pacs were part of their apology. I've used red wing,danner and wolverine boots,none of them have had the customer service of whites.

So what exactly was the problem chuck? You wore a pair of their boots for a year and then wanted a full refund.

They didn't fit, about three sizes to long, and they, Whites, didn't give a crap.



I'm sorry if my experience hurts your feelings. You might just have to deal with it, cause it aint changing.



Chuck

It doesn't hurt my feelings at all. I know you're full of shit before I even read your posts.

If you want a good pair of lace up cowboy boots built to order, complete with a high heel (no roper boots for me), spur shelf, choice of leather or vibram sole, choice of colour or stitch pattern, as well as the height of your liking....... Give Keho Lake Hutterite Colony in Alberta a call. They will make your Whites to appear wanting.



Chuck

Chuck, please post the phone number for those folks, thanks, D.

(403)757-2100

That is the school number (possibly the only phone on the colony) so you may have to do some asking to get someone from the shoe shop.

Chuck