We all want larger bucks, but a persistent problem is accidental shooting of buttonbucks on antlerless hunts. Are there any theories that actually work on identifying them before pulling the trigger?

If its a single Bald Deer it is usually a Button Buck.A good set of bino`s will show you the little nubs and they are more square on the top than the Does or Doe fawns.

Thats easy enough. Glass them before you shoot. This time of year the "Bumps" are very visable
Might be hard to see at long distance. If your not sure ....Dont shoot.

Theories ? No theories involved at all. The button buck is a juvenal .Therefore the head is shaped differently especially the length.Study and compare photos of heads of adult and juvenal deer.

I'm with the program completely.....but if you pass on that button buck and the next guy in the woods blasts him.....that's life. Let it go.

We need to get a lot of folks to be so determined to manage the herds.....

again.....I'm with the program....let the buttons go!

You can see them in the scope if you have a couple seconds and look for them.

I look for two things when glassing: the shape of the head and also the buttons tend to be a little lighter in color than the rest of the head (at least in our area). Yesterday I had a button buck following a forkhorn buck, that will usually tip you off that it is a button buck rather than a doe.

I know I'm lucky and get to hunt out of a stand and never have to shoot at a running deer, like several people end up doing. I have been with on several driven hunts and thats when the largest percentage of button bucks are shot thinking its a female. Thats why they call it an antlerless tag but I still get sick thinking of the potential that was just killed.

I don't shoot them on purpose, but it happens.

never shoot the first deer to enter a greenfield..it's a button buck!!

never shoot a lone small antlerless deer..it's a button buck

get a good pair of binocs and LOOK at the deer before shooting.

Shooting button bucks should be avoidable 99% of the time with just a small amount of effort.

troy

quote:

Originally posted by DTala:
never shoot the first deer to enter a greenfield..it's a button buck!!

never shoot a lone small antlerless deer..it's a button buck

get a good pair of binocs and LOOK at the deer before shooting.

Shooting button bucks should be avoidable 99% of the time with just a small amount of effort.

troy

I'm in agreement here. Good post.

I do not purposely shoot button bucks.

You can usually identifty them, but not always.

Study what a doe really looks like,they are "very easy" to identify,,,,if in doubt dont shoot if you "really" care...all button bucks are small,dont shoot small deer you will never kill another button head...

These are great suggestions. The only one I've heard before is the thing about buttonbucks travelling alone. I've heard when it really is a doe, there tends to be another doe with it.

That theory has actually panned out a few times, based on what I found or didn't find after the shot.

I've also seen a button following a forkhorn (with disasterous results for both). But, it was only that one time. Other times, what followed a forkhorn was a large buck.

As far as IDing thru binos or scopes, sometimes maybe, but I have shot buttonbucks where honestly you couldn't see anything that way. There weren't even knobs, just very slight bumps. You had to physically examine the head to spot them.

Shack, you're right about not being to tell all the time by looking for buttons. I was walking out from hunting with a landowner friend once when we spotted a small deer, fawn, in Jan, last day of the season. Landowner had half dozen doe tags left he wanted used. We argued about killing that deer, I said I couldn't tell and not to shoot. Landowner won argument so I missed the deer It ran off and landowner spotted it and a larger fawn a few yards away...PROOF that the deer was indeed a doe fawn. I shot it, it was a buck...no buttons showing. I was some PO'd. LAST fawn I've shot...that was 35 years ago!!!

this brings up rule four....if you have a NEED or big DESIRE to KILL an antlerless deer...it will be a button buck....

troy

The advise I was given if I wanted to insure that I shot a doe and not a button buck was to only shoot deer in a group and then shoot only the largest one. Don't shoot a solitary deer.

I also agree that seeing those little buttons on the top of the head is really tricky and not always possible.

LWD

I solve this the easy way - only shoot large, mature white tail does. That works best.

I told my son to shoot what I thought was a doe in 2003; it was a button buck. You make that mistake just once!

For guys that shoot Axis deer that have dropped their antlers, that is just plain retarded as they have a LARGE permanent boney protrusions from the skulls, unlike white tails.

I solve the problem by using a spotting scope. With enough magnification it is easy to see the bumps.

The reverse would then be that two antlerless deer together will probably be does. I think it's also true with small groups of does, like three or four.

Anyway, I suppose another way to tell which it is, would be the doe might be more nosey or more prone to check you out. But that's just a guess.

This entire thread is a complete crock of shit. If you think shooting a button buck is such a big deal, then just don't shoot fawns. Pretty simple.

Buttonbucks ain't fawns.

In hunting season buttonbucks are 4-8 month old fawns, depending on fawn drop date/season date. Ours here in Alabama will still have some spots on the legs in Oct/Nov.

I've seen numerous buttonbucks that have been killed, but none with any spots. For that matter during modern gun season I can't remember the last time I saw a spotted fawn at all. That's with 40 years of hunting the Mid-South, mostly Ark and W. Tenn.

shack, I've got four fawns in my backyard today, two of them still have some spots. LOTS of Alabama fawns still have lots off spots on our bow opener in mid Oct, my yard deer still had good spots three weeks ago. 45 years of hunting the deep south, Alabama.

As a working Game Warden I saw a small fully spotted fawn the first week of Jan, prolly 1992 or 1993. Small, like less than two weeks old. I raise orphan fawns and I know about how old the fawn was. This was in central Alabama.


troy

simple solution - use binos and be sure of your target.

quote:

Buttonbucks ain't fawns.

What is your definition of a fawn?

My definition is any deer < 1 year old. You will not find a 1.5 year buttonbuck around here during hunting season.

They vary from 11 pointers, which is what I call spikes. To small basket racks 1x2, 2x2, 2x3, 3x3, 3x4, 4x5, and even 5x5 sometimes. They are usually at the start of the list.

I believe that birthdates, overall birth health, nutrition, weather, and genetics all come into play in the size of the first rack.

A fawn is what I call a spotted newborn. That's just my opinion and is definitely not scientific. But these people I believe think the same - http://www.nhptv.org/NatureWorks/whitetaileddeer.htm - and apparently Wiki does too.

Btw, to make sure we're on the same page, I'm talking about whitetails only, and I'm in the Mid-South. Also, a spike is something we call a buck with 2 points of any length. A forkhorn is what we call a 4 point. And the state has its own definition of a buck; it has antlers at least 3" in length. Anything else is legally antlerless and you can shoot 3 a day.

I'm beginning to think the buttonbucks I'm used to seeing must be slightly larger than what some have seen. To me they're just small deer in size, which of course is the whole point of even being interested in trying to distinquish them from does of the same size. And if it weren't for the single fact that this size makes the best possible eating, I wouldn't be interested in shooting either the does or the buttonbucks. And as far as the state's concerned it makes no difference at all.

And a fawn is something I wouldn't shoot (I do frequently find what I suspect are their skulls that the coyotes got).

that , Wiki, has no definition of what a fawn is...

We(I'm a retired GW) in the Alabama Dept of Conservation call anything under a year old a fawn. I think we are a little better qualified in determining what a fawn actually is than Wiki......

Your button bucks ARE prolly larger in size than our deer are, prolly born earlier too.

SDhunter is on target....esp that last sentence.

troy

Type in "deer fawn" and look way down the Wiki page where there's the picture of the spotted fawn. To the left there's some explanation. It's just a few words.

But, I agree, what does Wiki know about a lot of things. It and that other one are just what I was able to quickly find.

I have seen small spikes and small 2x2's that were still following the doe. Also, some doe fawns will come in and breed their first fall. Most of this knowledge came from watching the deer in my front yard. When you can see the same fawns every day or so from the time their mama brings them down out of the woods until hunting season, you can pretty much reconize them.
I think the further south you go, the less well defined the fawn drop and rut season is. When you don't have to "get 'er done" because next week you'll be ass deep in snow, you can be a little more relaxed.
IMO, if a deer is in his second season and he is still only a button buck or small spike, he ought to be culled.
As posted, I've seen fawns that still had some spots on them during hunting season.

quote:

Originally posted by M16:
I solve the problem by using a spotting scope. With enough magnification it is easy to see the bumps.

A requirement if you are going to hunt the ranches I hunt.

Perry

Well, I've now heard from two more experienced local hunters who said they agree with the theory about buttonbucks travelling alone. Both have shot ones like that.

In fact we let a lone small deer go this morning just for that reason.

But, someone I was hunting with accidentally killed a button today. It was with several other antlerless deer. Although it's obvious anyway, it does go to show that the converse isn't true; that because you see several antlerless deer together doesn't mean all of them are does.

One interesting part of this is, it appears we have more male deer overall than maybe what we supposed.

Btw, none of anything we've seen this season have had spots on them. The button from today was what I'd call a medium/small.

Just another reason a scope with lotsa Power is an advantage.

Or don't go sniping at deer a long ways away.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
Or don't go sniping at deer a long ways away.

It doesn't have to be real far in dim Twilight with a heavy overcast.

The last Nubbin I "almost Killed" was early one morning with dark clouds overhead. I just happened to notice a small piece of White where I was not used to it. It kinda looked like the flowers called Queen Anns Lace and I knew none of that was anywhere around.

So, I eased the 10x50 binoculars up and spotted two Deer back in the understory. After watching them for a couple of minutes, one was a bit larger than the other one, but no open shot.

Binocs down, rifle up and began watching them as best I could with the scope on 6x. Something was different about their movements as well. Cranked the scope up to 20x and at about 40yds, those Nubbins were visible. Rifle down and still could not see the Deer well. After a few minutes they walked out a bit more and their small size(yearlings, a Doe and the Nubbin) became apparent. Waited for the Old Doe.

So, it doesn't have to be at long distance where being able to see a bit better is a nice advantage. Even up-close the weenie scoppes would not have shown the Nubbins under those conditions.

I'm not sure there's a rule that will always apply concerning button bucks. I just hate it when I kill one when I was intending to get a doe, but in spite of all my precautions, I still do it occasionally. I believe it is going to happen sometimes--that's why the game laws allow them to be counted as a doe.

Generally if they are alone, they tend to be button bucks the head shape is also a good way to figure it out. I let one go on opening day here in NY, he was about 20 yards away and ran off and then came back to look me over. Hope he makes it!

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:
We all want larger bucks, but a persistent problem is accidental shooting of buttonbucks on antlerless hunts. Are there any theories that actually work on identifying them before pulling the trigger?

Please define "Larger Bucks"

And also explain why antler score is advantageous?

It's something that I've NEVER understood...

AD

I'm really glad I took a second look at this, at first glance I thought it said "buttocks" and I was immediately confused because couldn't see how I could shoot myself in my own buttocks.

One way I tell is the males are more adventurous, and will wander further away from momma.

Around here, come fall the Momma doe will push the yearling bucks out of the home range.I think it's natures way of making sure she doesn't get inbred by her own offspring. There is usually a rise in the roadkill stats, and almost every one of them is a young buck.

Not sure if that would apply to button bucks as they're typically not ready to breed, but I have heard of young of the year does getting bred in the late season, as they experience their first estrous.

Just an opinion, but if one will pass on all deer with a short face and only shoot long headed (mature)does, I think the button buck issue will go away.

None of these "rules" apply all of the time. As stated several times, you need to glass and be sure before pulling the trigger. We did a youth doe hunt this weekend. We made sure everyone had binoculars and all were asked to be careful not to shoot button bucks. This area is covered up with whitetails so getting a couple of does was not going to be a problem. After all the coaching and urging patience, two hunters shot button bucks. Both hunters were adults, not the kids. Finally, even with carefully glassing, mistakes are going to happen once in a while. I sure didn't expect this thread to be a pissing contest, but it goes to show anything is possible.