I was hunting just outside of Crowell, TX looking for one of the big deer that they grow in that area, when this deer showed up just before we were due to leave. I had never seen a 6 point like this, old, with just two points on each main beam. I decided to take him instead of going home without one. He weighed about 200 lbs.



Doug

Are there any experts who could offer an opinion whether this big boy would ever attain larger antlers? I've run into this dilema too as we all have. Should we let him live to become a future trophy, or is he likely to have gotten as big as he is capable?

Toward the end of the season I'd have taken him too, nice deer!!

the chef

Towards the end of the season looking for some jerky meat for the freezer. No doubt in my mind ... I would have taken him out too.

Looking at the picture, it looks like there is some gray hair starting to show on his face. Probably a good one to take out of the herd.

Ya'll can say towards the end of the season all you want . I would have smacked him on opening day here but, we are allowed six bucks.

He was most likely one of those big spikes as a youngster that wasn't going to amount to much, maybe a pretty good 8 which is a good buck in most areas.

IMO alot of folks that cull every spike are culling potential future good 8s. I can see it's merit where you want big tens+ but, what I cant figure out is why alot of guys that don't harvest many descent bucks insist on culling every spike in the woods yet they wonder why they don't have many descent bucks .

My reasoning for that train of thought is gathered from hunting a place where we see a few spikes that should be more and we let them walk. Those bucks turn into nice 15" wide 5s and 6s w/ pretty good mass in the years following which looks much nicer hanging at the camp than a bunch of toothpicks.

Congrats on your Buck!

Reloader

It looks to be an older mature deer and that is what I would look for.....

I am no expert, however, my goal is to take a mature Deer ie 4 1/2 years or older. I have made a couple "mistakes" judging, such as mistaking a 3 1/2 yr for older...it is difficult, without a significant amount of experience, to field judge when time is limited...

In many areas, given hunting pressure, it is difficult to take a mature deer. Really big mature Whitetails and Muley's are special in my book...everything has to be in your favor to take one ie Hunting an area with proven genetics, animals reaching a mature age, and a bunch of luck.

I have a good buddy of mine gets to hunt a place which for years was Farm Land and not anything special in terms of Deer Hunting. The owner of the land (a large block for around here, 10,000 acres) coverted it to CRP and put some in the tree program. They did not allow hunting on this property for 5 years. When they started hunting the property, they took some really large deer...several grossing over 170, with the biggest one... my friend shot going 191 gross B&C. This past year the owner had a Biologist survey the land and deer herd. The Biologist reported back that the land was significantly over carrying capacity for deer and strongly suggested they increase the taking of Does and Bucks or the quality of Deer would go down significantly in the future....too many deer not enough carrying capacity...many areas of the South have this problem as well as young deer being taken...

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
Are there any experts who could offer an opinion whether this big boy would ever attain larger antlers? I've run into this dilema too as we all have. Should we let him live to become a future trophy, or is he likely to have gotten as big as he is capable?

Toward the end of the season I'd have taken him too, nice deer!!

the chef

I do not qualify as an expert but based on his neck/body size he may have thrown some trash points if he got older (stickers, kickers) but did not have trophy genetics. I have seen 5-1/2 to 6-1/2 year old sixes and sevens taken that are heavy and have a decent spread but are never going to be truly large. It is just their genetic make up.

Congratulations to dougaboy on your buck. I think you made a good choice.

Nice looking last minute buck! Did you weigh him?
Dean

He appears to be at least 4.5 years old. I would have culled him at 3.5 if he only had six points and some ranches would cull him at 2.5 years of age. I try to cull most of the deer before they rut to keep them from passing on their genes.

As for killing spikes there is no easy answer. I have been on ranches that shoot them all on sight. Other ranches take a limited number. On my ranch I take a limited number of them and start with the ones with the shortest spikes. They have shown a tendency to produce less antler so they are shot first. The biologist sets the number to be shot. There are a lot of spikes this year but that always happens following a year with an extra large fawn crop. All areas are different so management that works in one area may not work in another.

Good job and nice buck!

I agree, he looks to be 4 1/2-5 1/2. In places where there are antler restrictions, like Missouri where it has to be 4 points on one side to be legal, that is what you see now, really large spikes and 6 point deer. The larger rack deer get taken at 2 1/2 just because they are legal.

Great buck!

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
Are there any experts who could offer an opinion whether this big boy would ever attain larger antlers? I've run into this dilema too as we all have. Should we let him live to become a future trophy, or is he likely to have gotten as big as he is capable?

Toward the end of the season I'd have taken him too, nice deer!!

the chef

Semi-expert here - Bachelor of Science in Forest Wildlife Managment, Master of Science in Forestry (wildlife emphasis), Conservation Specialist with Government Agency.

Professional Opinion: This deer was finished as far as rack developement. It was the perfect cull, a 4.5 yo (just guestimating without looking at the teeth) with a nice wide 6-point rack. I have friend that took a very similar deer in SE Texas. BTW - it will make a great skull mount.

White-tailed deer genetically tend toward an 8-point frame, any less is "inferior", any more is "exceptional". By age 2.5 most deer have their basic antler frame - age only increases tine length and mass. By 3.5 or 4.5 any "extra" points (usually out toward the tips of the main beams) will show. In the eastern US, deer rarely live past 6.5, and 5.5 yo bucks are rarely harvested outside high fences or large well-managed properties.

My guess (and others) was that he was at least 4 1/2 years old. The rancher has the jaw bone and will age him so I will let you know when I find out. Others had seen him several times, but as this is a 1 buck county opted to pass. I told the rancher that if he was in the field at 8:30 I would be happy to take him. He started to walk away at 8:25 and I coudn't wait any longer. A good way to end my deer hunting for the year.

We did not weigh him, but figured him at over 180 and probably around 200. The deer here are much more like Kansas deer in body size than Texas. If you go 150-200 miles South the deer are much smaller.

Doug

Redlander,

I missed your post while I was making mine. Your comments about using the big stick are exactly how I was feeling. I have had lots of fun watching my son take 5 deer over the last 2 years, but I had not dropped the hammer on a whitetail in that same period. It was time.

Doug

analyze all you want to, its a nice deer in my book, good job!

There's no way that deer is anywhere near 180 to 200 lbs...

Brad,

Perhaps you are confused because I look so svelte in my hunting clothes.

I called the rancher today to ask about the age of the deer and he told me that they think that it is 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 years old (that is as close as he can get) and field dressed at 158 lbs. If you figure about 18% of body weight is the innards that would put him at 192 on the hoof. They had a deer earlier that year that field dressed at 175.

Doug

quote:

Perhaps you are confused because I look so svelte in my hunting clothes.

LOL, you're a good sport!

18%, maybe... regardless, you must be a big guy cause you dwarf that deer!

Best...

I have a very similar rack - shot in 1958. It might be a bit bigger. It's nearly symetrically perfect, but was only 2.5 yrs at death.

I could probably post a picture of it, if anyone is interested. But I wonder what it would have grown up to be.

BTW, you can estimate weight by measuring girth. The PA Game and Fish dept even sell a tape that converts this for you in the field. Sorta fun to have along.

Brent

quote:

Originally posted by calgarychef1:
Are there any experts who could offer an opinion whether this big boy would ever attain larger antlers? the chef

In that area a 200 lb deer is 4.5 to 5.5. Maybe you could find a 3.5 that pushed it, but not likely.

In that area, this year, there was little rain during the most crucial time for antler develpoment. Maybe in a good year he would have been a bigger 6? Maybe 7 or 8? ??? Who knows.

I doubt he was a benefit to the gene pool.

Doug was this a guided hunt?

Hey Doug, good job. He's an interesting trophy, and as someone else stated he'll make a real nice skull mount if you go that way, but he wouldn't look bad in a full shoulder mount either.

BTW--Doug is a big guy, not round like me--but he ain't no punk!

Nice way to wrap up your season brother--take good care--Don

Wendell,

Yes it is a guided hunt. We pay for 2-3 days of hunting and the land owner and his friends take care of us while we are out there. They have 2200 acres with 11 wheat fields that avg. 5- 10 acres. We sit in blind and hunt over the wheat. My company has done a few corporate hunts over the last few years (this was one such hunt) and a group of my friends go out one weekend each year. I believe that those are the only two groups that hunt there each year.

I think that you are right about the antler development this year. We did not see as many good deer as we have in the past. But we also took few deer this year so I am anticipating a great year to come. I did see one monster at last light one night. He was way beyond his ears and pretty tall. I couldn't count the points and he only had horns on one side, but he was really big. Next year.

Doug