Need to know if you were buying a primary elk rifle, with a 308 shooting 155gr j4's at 2900 fps as a back up, what would anyone consider as the primary rifle. 45-70, 300 mag, 300 H&H, or just stay with the 308? I don't even want to hear about a 7mm. The 308 is doing that job already! I'm in a bind!
Well, since you already have the .308, why mess around with another .300 bore. If I was buying a primary rifle for Elk, it would without a doubt be a .338 Win Mag, or one of the other .338 cartridges. Hey, what do ya' know, I've got 2 of them! You'll love it!- Sheister
.300 Win Mag would do the job perfectly, and I don't mind the recoil a bit. Another great Elk rifle is the .338 Win Mag...I have the .338 Ultra, and am almost feeling as if it's too fast. It also depends on how far you plan on shooting. But anything that will shoot a heavy bullet well (165+gr BarnesX or 180+gr other premium such as Swift A frame or Nosler Partition) will be a great elk rifle. I wouldn't hesitate to ever use my 30'06 on elk, although I do have the .444 Marlin and .338 Ultra Mag to choose from first. Hope this helps.
------------------ God Bless and Shoot Straight
[This message has been edited by the444shooter (edited 11-09-2001).]
Posts: 264 | Location: Big Sky Country, MT | Registered: 12 October 2001
I've been hunting elk for 30 years and have taken elk with everything from a 243 to a 338 win mag. The longer I hunt them the more I favor the bigger bores. I agree with the posts above, since you already have a 308 (good gun by the way that is what my wife kills elk with) I would go with the 338 win mag in a stainless steel with a synthetic stock. The reason I suggest stainless is because if you are serious about elk hunting like I am you will be out in the rain and snow as much as dry weather.
Far as I understand it, a back up gun should be larger in caliber than your primary arm, thus I would opt for something greater in size and power than a .30 cal.
Posts: 1723 | Location: wyo | Registered: 03 March 2001
Of the ones you listed I would say the 300 win mag is superior to the H&H in every way and is a very efficent elk load. The 45-70 will get the job done within reasonable range expectations and is just plain fun to shoot.
Posts: 10143 | Location: Tooele, Ut | Registered: 27 September 2001
I like the 340 Wby with 225 gr Barns X. It has always worked well for me. I live in Alberta Canada, Where you can get shots from 50 yards all the way out to unreasonable. So I like a flat shooting rifle.
Happy Hunting.
Posts: 182 | Location: Okotoks, Alberta | Registered: 23 September 2001
mbkddd, Who are you kidding? There is no way in hell the Imperial Ice Queen will write you a permission slip to travel outside your city limits, much less the state line. In fact I can't believe she let you out of her sight long enough for you to post this thread. Quit fantasizing about magnums and elk. Stick with your Red Ryder and mice.
my question to mbkddd, is why are you using J4's in your .308 on game? Isn't that Nosler's new(er) Match cartridge? I honestly haven't studied them much, but I always thought that match bullets did poorly in hunting situations(except for long-long-long range)...especially at high velocities. Are the J4's hollow point boat tails? Do they have a thick jacket? Your choice of using them on game intrigues me, especially on elk. Why not a premium bullet such as a barnesX or nosler or Swift? Or heck, at moderate velocities, why not even some Hornadies? Please do tell why your choice was the competition bullet.
------------------ God Bless and Shoot Straight
Posts: 264 | Location: Big Sky Country, MT | Registered: 12 October 2001
For a dedicated elk rifle the .338 Win Mag is a great one. Recoil is tolerable, lots of good bullets and factory loads too.
Got a kick out of the comment on the .300 H&H being so inferior to the .300 Win mag. One can load either to basically the same velocities, I've done it. BUT cases and ammo are the problem depending on where you live or if you handload.
FN
Posts: 950 | Location: Cascade, Montana USA | Registered: 11 June 2000
I'm with 444, why in the world would you use a Nosler J4 competition bullet to hunt anything, thats a recipe for a sho nuff failure. Just not smart. Use a Nosler partition and skip the back up as you won't need it if you keep your shots to broadside.
Well fellas, I appreciate all the responses except from that crowrifle guy. Sounds like he has some complex for my wife. If she was a twin, I marry both of them and he still would be sucking pond water.
Anyway, I appreciate the reference to using j4's in hunting. I used the reference to the j4's to describe the ballistics achieved to date. Definitely would use something in the range of a 165 gr Nosler spt bt
quote:Originally posted by Frank Nowakowski: Got a kick out of the comment on the .300 H&H being so inferior to the .300 Win mag. One can load either to basically the same velocities, I've done it. FN
Didnt mean to step on any toes, I just feel that whatever the H&H can be loaded to the 300 Win Mag can surpass. Granted not by much though.
Posts: 10143 | Location: Tooele, Ut | Registered: 27 September 2001
Well I have to agree with all the info you have gotten so far. Although I couldn't follow crowrifle's train of thought. Does he know your wife from somewhere? I have killed elk with my 308 for years. 165gr X's and Noslers, but that said a few years ago I bought a 338Win and love that elk killen son of a gun. I don't see any cal in the above posts I would shy away from. X-Ring AKA Scooter
------------------ Freedom wasn't free. Today they want our guns. What will they want tommorow?
I can beat the 300 Win. with 200 gr. spitzers in a 300 H&H, but not with the 180, but I can get within 50 fps of it...that 200 has to be seated pretty deep in the powder space of a 300 Win....
I'd say they are equal in every way from a practical point of view, at least in the game fields...
I like a .35 Whelen using 225 Nosler partitions at about 2750 fps. It shoots as flat as a .30-06 and hits as hard as a .300 Win Mag both using 180 grns partitions.
mbkddd -- Aha, I suspect you are using the same arguement on your wife I used on mine. An opportunity for another rifle. Go with a .338 Win or .340 Wby, like I did. I had a perfectly good .308 and .300 Win mag. and wanted to climb on up the ladder of chamberings. The only trouble was, after shooting the .340 Wby I found it to be the ideal Elk round, and it became my primary rifle for the brown beast with 8-wheel drive. That is until I shot a .358 STA, and guess what, another rifle entered by reloading realm. Well so much for long stories. I consider anything equal to or greater than the chambering considered, an excellent back-up rifle. Good shooting.
My primary elk rifles are chambered for the .300 Winchester and the .338 Winchester, and I've taken the same number of bulls each of them. They're both great elk calibers, and I don't see much difference in the way they iron out elk.
I'd also be very happy with a .300 H&H, .300 Weatherby, or .340 Weatherby, but I don't see myself using anything but the .300 Win., or .338 win. in the future for elk.
The only thing about the 338 is it's less flat trajectory than the 300 win mag. It also has less at target velocity way out there hence less rapid bullet expansion. One also has to assume steadier positions when shooting this round as recoil is in a different class than the short thirties.
Mbkddd, If you reload i would go with a 358STA, if you don't, the 338Win. Both will hold up their end if you do yours. The STA does have more recoil though.
Posts: 1117 | Location: Helena, MT, USA | Registered: 01 April 2001
Take a ride to your local WalMart store and see if they have a Weatherby Vanguard 300 Winchester Magnum in stock. At $388.00 plus tax you will not find a better Elk cartridge for such a reasonable price. In my view the Weatherby Vanguard is twice the rifle the Remington 700 is these days.
Well, I won't tell you what to buy. Instead, I would like you to think about the following:
In my view, there are a few cartridges out there that can be considered "all purpose hunting" cartridges. For game from deer to moose-size animals, I doubt you will find a better cartridge than the .338 Winchester Magnum. Keep in mind that the .300 Winchester Magnum, and the .375 H&H also are outstanding cartridges. However, if you want a .338 WM to shoot like a .300 magnum, all you have to do us to shoot lightweight bullets from 160-grains (Barnes) to somewhere around the 225 grainers. Then, if you want the same rifle to shoot like a .375 H&H, all you have to do is to shoot bullets from 250 grains up to the 275-grain Swift A-Frame or to the 300-grain Woodleigh.
Notice that I have never said that these three cartridges are the same. All I meant to imply was that the .338 Magnum has a wide ballistics range. The .375 H&H is a favorite of mine, but the .338 WM is one of the most versatile cartridges I can think of, specially for hunting in North America. Nothing wrong with the .300 WM if you decide to buy one. I see more .30-06's, .300 WM's, and .338 WM's around here than all other cartridges bunched together (except for the .22 LR, of course).
Posts: 2448 | Location: Alaska | Registered: 25 May 2002
I got one of the first 8mm RM that hit the market, and was very happy with it, to the tune of 1# of 4831 a weekend. "They" would make me happier with a wider asst of bullets in the 8mm, but I could always find what I needed. It may be a little overkill for some, but I really liked that gun and how it would shoot at 700-800 yds. No, I don't hunt at those ranges, but you don't really hunt paper targets, do you? If I were buying one today, I'm afraid that I would look real hard to the 416 RM. Yeah, I know, but it would be a lot of fun to shoot, and should be very effective on larger game.
------------------ Good Shooting!
Posts: 1944 | Location: Moses Lake, WA | Registered: 06 November 2001
The .338 win is tough to beat but just for fun, especially if you walk a lot, one of the old Rem.600(?) or newer Rem custom shop Model Sevens in .350Rem.Mag. Easy to carry and kills like the Hammer of Thor.
I just don't see the common sense of bringing the 45-70 into the conversation. If you do then I nominate the 8mm Lebel.
The two things that the .308 Win lack are lots of energy and range. It has both however at reasonable ranges. I don't live in the Rockies but I have been there and it takes part of a day to walk as far as you can easily see. I would carry something with more range. But thats because I am a target shooter/hunter. I carry a range and wind estimation chart on my .300 Win. Mag.
But since the 7mm's are out get a bigger case in .30 or up.
If I did not have to climb 8,000 feet that day I would carry my .375 H&H Improved and carry two different loads that were zeroed for long range and short. I can see Nosler Partitions for both loads. But that's my fantasy rifle for today.
I have many choices in my safe but I bought a .338 Win Mag specifically for Elk and I can tell you it was no mistake. It's what I use, I do bring a second rifle but it has yet to come out of its' case as the .338 has yet to have a problem.
I personally use an 8mm Rem Mag for elk and it just flattens them... from right here to way out there. But it isn't the round for everyone... especially if you don't reload.
If you keep your shots to under 150 - 200 max yds the .308 will work. I'm just not willing to do that.
I'd suggest the .338 as the ultimate elk caliber and am seriously looking at the .338 ultra mag for my self.
Good luck!
Posts: 337 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: 15 March 2001
I would say the mighty 300 Win Mag shooting 200 grain Noslers.
The 308 will do the job but if you are looking for a reason to buy a new rifle go for the 300 Win Mag. I bought a Ruger M77MKII and am pleased with it.
