[ 08-01-2002, 01:04: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

Yes, Reverend Pecos, call in the sheep with the word and have the sheep tithe their money for the greater good. Do you already have a good supply of baskets to go around?

"bah, bah, bah...." here they come, soon, just a few more minutes...

Pecos, I don't recall seeing anything that indicated that RA needed any help with a thing, what did I miss?

No, R.A doesn't need any help. I'm just trying to inject a little humor into this scope controversy that has gotten mega silly today.

Buell, I am trying to make all of us laugh at themselves. I think you may take yourself a bit too seriously. This whole scope topic has been an exercise in silliness IMHO.

Congratulations on your entrance into gunsmithing school. As the stubborn Atkinson said, "Go and make a good one."

And stop thinking anyone is out to get you. You are among friends and people of like mind on this website in case you hadn't noticed.

Now how much will you contribute towards Atkinson's Swarovski Scope fund?

[ 07-30-2002, 05:25: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

I think European scopes are over-rated, too. How do I apply for a low-range Swarovski variable to show me what an idiot I am? Can I also get some binoculars?

I also have my doubts about really nice rifles, especially the new Mauser in 375 H&H. Can I get one of them, too?

Thanks, I love you guys for making me smarter. Okie John.

If you "really" want to help Mr. Atkinson, send him your old 3X Leupolds, That is what he likes. I have one, but I can't bear to part with it.

I will send you 20 bucks if someone will start a fund for me to get a Leupold, like a 1.5x5x20 would be good!


I do take things quite seriously when people are threatening to track me down and beat the shit out of me. That is serious.

I see it didnt take long for the sheep to graze in. The original post to this thread was like the water trucks for the sheep I see out in the fields. Just bring them on in. All we need now is Belk to be like a good sheep dog and keep everyone in line...

Bah, bah, bah....

Buell...try this.....sign off, klick on start, (if you have Windows), go to "my computer", open that, start deleting all those files you see there, but be careful not to delete the "games file". When you get them all deleted, RIGHT klick on the games icon and move it to your wallpaper. Enlarge it if you want. Even place it right in the middle of your monitor screen. Now, everytime you feel the urge to do something on your PC, klick on the games file, select something real mind-numbing like "Solitaire", and play that for a while. Like maybe 4 hours......K??? Grant. Oh! And don't forget to empty your "Recycle Bin..

Oldmodel70-

How does it feel to be a sheep, sheep, sheep. Not even one of the smarter ones... bah, bah, bah.... come up with something with an ounce of intellegence please! bah, bah, bah...

Buell

[ 07-30-2002, 06:36: Message edited by: Buell ]

OK, I can see how this thread is going to go.
I try to start a good charity for Ray Atkinson so he can get that Smirnovsky/Stalosiki....whatever that scope was.

Now Okie is trying to pull a scam to get a 375 H&H out of the deal and to REALLY put the frosting on the cake, Buell is trying to get a Leopold!

This is getting crazier by the minute. Next thing I know someone will be wanting all my Bushnells!

Some days it just don't pay to log on.

Buell, you're a good lad and we've given you a hard time today. I'm glad you have passion for your favorite scope. There's nothing wrong with that and I have no doubts Swarovski makes a good one. Probably dang near as good as Bushnell if the truth be known! (Joke) Two things I've learned on this website is you can't say anything negative about Nosler bullets or Leopold scopes without someone wanting to burn a cross in your front yard...preferably with the guy who uttered this heracy tied to it!

Before I joined this website I thought Nosler was the thing you put on your garden hose and Swarovski was a cheap vodka. But now I know better.

I wish you wouldn't call me one of Atkinson's sheep. I'm really not. It would just make my day to catch Ray saying something REALLY dumb about guns and hunting...but so far I haven't caught him...and I'm beginning to think I'm not going to. Besides I'm handicapped by the fact that he knows and has done a lot more than me. The closest I've been to Africa was the time I saw the movie "The African Queen."

So if Ray ever does say something ridiculous, I'm probably not going to be smart enough to even notice.

Pecos-

I am sorry if I offended you. I actually didnt call you a sheep, but their pastor...

So anywho, I will say that you did create another field for the sheep to come and graze in

I shall have to keep an eye out for when the biggest sheep and his sheep dog come looking for me though!

You have to admit the people on this site who have nothing to add, like Oldmodel70 are sheep though. I don't understand what the big idea of something like that is? I was not having a discussion with the lot of these blokes yet they seem to feel the need to bash me.

Somethings will never change...

Good hunting to you,

Buell

Not to worry, Buell. No offense taken.

I think it's easy for all of us to go to work and have the proverbial hard day at the office and then come home and when we look at our favorite website and see someone has said something we didn't like or something that disagreed with our opinions......it is easy for us <even me sometimes> to go ballistic and over-react.

It's all just hot air and some of it not even very hot. It's just venting tension by yelling at our computers. The next day everyone feels foolish.

No harm done. Tomorrow we will all be arguing about the proper way to skin a jackrabbit or something equally silly.

By the way, does your gunsmithing school have a website by any chance? I would like to see where you are going.

Yes there is a website, but unless you speak German it wont do much good aside from a picture.

Go to google.com and type in HTBL Ferlach. The school itself has been around for over a hundred years and in 1994 they completed construction on a new, high tech school, which is the big silver building on the site. Ferlach has many gun makers and is much like Suhl, Germany. The town has 8,000 people and is nestled in whats called the Julian alps. There are several 2,000 feet plus mountains around the town. Really beautiful. Just by walking around there are many gun makers in plain view. It was really awesome to walk around and see names like Hauptman, Fanzoj, Hambrusch, ect. You may not be familiar with these gunmakers but they produce truely amazing work. The Fanzoj family has been producing rifles for over 400 years.

The gunsmithing course itself is four years. The first year the students make simple tools such as a hammer from a simple block of steel. These tools are to be used later in making a rifle. The 2nd year is the barrel, and the 3rd is the rifle stock. The 4th is installment of optical sights. They have a complete underground shooting facility to test the rifles. The course is quite thourough and covers just about everything needed to produce a rifle. The school also teaches things like engraving, gold smithing, industrial design, so they have an array of technical trades avalable to learn. For instance, a gunsmithing student may take the 4 year course, a one year course in engraving, and a course in gold smithing to enhance their skills in gold inlays and general gold work. So one could become a complete gunsmith.

There is no tuition for the school no matter where the student comes from. No one dime. The gun making guild in Ferlach also had a student residence that charges 350 dollars a month for a bed, 3 meals a day, ect. Quite a bargain.

I think some of the top gun makers in the world have come from Ferlach and still do. I took a tour by Karl Hauptman of his factory and I was awe struck. The rifles they make will cause a true rifle lover to become speachless at the meer sight of his rifles.

I took a look at the gun smithing courses offered by a few different colleges a JC's here in the states, but they do not offer as good of courses as does HTBL. The one in Colorado also charges more then 15,000 a year just for tuition, and because my parents make over the magic number, I do not recieve any aid whatsoever. Many of these courses are also geared towards the actual term gunsmith rather then gunmaker- meaning they are geared toward the guy who is going to put on scopes for people who don't know how. Simpler stuff.

Well I hope that answered your questions.

Let me know if I can answer anything else for you.

Buell

I took 4 years worth of German in college...or should I say it took me. But I reckon I can get the jist of what the website says about Ferlach.

You've already told me enough about it to make me sick with envy. This sounds like a heck of an opportunity and I hope you'll learn it all.

OK, I'm off to look at the website.
p45

Hey its never too late to go. They told me there is another American starting this year who is 65 years old!

If you don't know too much about the educational system in Europe, many times there are trade schools like these that are subsituted for what we know as highschool. What that means is there are students there who are 14,15... It will be really interesting for this older gent who is going also!

Hi
I love austrian combination guns which are among the best handmade guns in the world and know that german zeis or swaroski scopes are of high quality,but their price is too high and avrage hunters may be can not afford them . What I can not understand is such an attack to Mr atkinson ,because he likes his leopold. punching under the belt is far from hunters ethical and do not enhance Zeis nor swarowski. ive the winchester and leopold to the old cowboy and don't try to learn him how to ride or shoot !and give expensive european guns and scopes to rich europeans with superior wallet!! or banc acount!! which can afford those nice guns .
Br
Danny

Hey, I've never even looked through a Swarovski. I do have a Leupold I like. Send me money, and I'll be glad to try a Swarovski.

[ 07-30-2002, 15:06: Message edited by: John Y Cannuck ]

Buell,

Good luck at the school, I spent 4 years in Germany and had the best time of my life. Would love to retire their. I remember a great hunting store there, I think the name of it was Frankonia or something of that nature that had some most beautiful guns I have ever seen.

My wife and I spent our honeymoon in Austria, you will love it there.

BTW, not to be sarcastic, this is a genuine question...You actually spend a year learning how to mount a scope? Or is this fabricating express sights and regulating them? Just sounded kind of strange.

Jim

Buell,
If you meet my "penpal" Hannes fanzoj at Johann Fanzoj, please tell him that I send him fond greetings. I have never met Hannes, but some years ago when I wrote an article for an Indian magazine on the finest guns available at that time, he was especially helpful and nice. Of the 100 odd companies that I wrote to, he was the most helpful and the Fanzoj catalogue is something that I treasure even today not just for the information that it gave a pro gun hack from the back of beyond (me, that is) but also for the sheer beauty of the catalogue itself. If it was that good, I can only feel a shiver go down my spine when I think of how beautiful their guns must be!
Good luck and I hope to write about your guns when you start making them!
In friendship,

Buell, Buell, Buell, you are so perinoid, I have NEVER considered hunting you down and beating the shit out of you, never!! Maybe I will spank you someday if we ever meet ....

I even wished you well in your educational endeaver as a gunsmith and I was very sincere in that post, now does that sound like a person threatening you?

The only person I would actually like to get a piece of is Bill Tibbe and I would like to tear his head off and shit in the hole, but would have to let Jack Belk have firsts...being the kindly genleman that I am!

So rest easy young man, I find you entertaining and intelligent, you just need some tranquilizers and a 2 hour nap in the afternoons....and a 1.5x5 Leupold on your rifle.

Fanzoj makes some of the finest rifles in the world. They are very beatiful and well made. I walked by their factory en route to a party with some of the local Ferlach student, actually!

338-

The Germanic countryside is something I love dearly. Franz AKA daydreamer on this site was kind enough to let me stay in his home for a week and the view from his portch with a good Monte Cristo N. 2 cigar in hand is something I will hopefully never forget.

The deal about the mounting of optical sights is that they teach German Claw mounts, which are very hard to do, and must be done by someone who knows exactly what they are doing. The goal of this school is to teach the student how to make a complete rifle from scratch and be able to do it again without faulter. The german claw also is a device I love and don't see enough here. Karl hauptman uses one of his own design. He uses the front mount from the EAW but machines his own rear mount that is simple, elegant, and easy to use as anything I have seen. One twist on a knurled round disc if I will and the scope comes off. No levers, no gimmicks. The school teaches students to be innovative in their work, not really just to repeat what they learn in the school.

Atkinson-

I think it was when you thought I was Tibbe that you said you were going to track me down.

Anyways, if you did spank me if we ever meet, first I hope your wife does not get jealous and second I hope you are not gay. lol...

I went to the last SCI show in Dallas, saw your booth but did not talk to you. I had just flown in the previous day and wanted to talk with D'Arcy, which I did for over an hour. I was in awe the entire time at the mounts.

Do you offer Bongo hunts? Ever hunted them? They are in my top five african animals. They are really interesting to me. Dont have anywhere the funds to hunt them just yet, but soon I will have a full body mount of one in my study, after I hunt it!

Auf Wiedersehen! (Deutsch for good-bye)

Buell

Buell,

My memory is fading but didn't they call those mounts something like "schwink montage" and another was called "hook montage", I vaguely remember them. I had a friend that these mounts were all he would use. He would by a Sako and spend 350 DM to have these mounts installed. I never really understood why he did this until I saw them. Very nice mounts. If you know (or anyone else) what they were called to help refresh my memory that would be great.

Don't forget to have a few heffe weizen and a jager scnitzel for me while your there .

tsch�s,

Jim

338-

The owner of New England Custom Gun is a german, a real one who was a smith over there. Check out their website, I dont have it on me but do a serch. They would be able to answer your questions about anything I think!

Auf Wiedersehen

Buell

NECG is owned by Mark Cromwell born and bred in the USA. He was formerly in partnership with Dietrich Appel, who is a relative. Dietrich was from Germany and emigrated some time ago to work with his Jaeger, his uncle. He formed NECG and has retired.

[ 08-01-2002, 00:19: Message edited by: Customstox ]

Chic- thanks for the correction...



Those are EAW mounts with a 3x12x50 Schmidty..

Buell

Buell,
I presently do not book hunts that far North, but there is a rather unsavory fellow that lurks on this and the HA board, by the name of Rich Elliot and he can fix you right up with a Bongo and he is actually a stright shooter and gives a hunt worth the money, but don't tell him I said such nice things about him, he would get to expecting it all the time........

A Bongo is one of the animals, along with a Lord Darby Eland and Dwarf Buffalo that I have not shot..I missed the opertunity one time to hunt them because I just wanted out of Etheopia as fast as I could get out...All countries north of Kenya suck IMHO....I have never been a swamp dweller, not pro mosquito, and humidity leaves me clammy, eboli, Aids and every bad sick in the world starts in that area...The worlds anus.

I am not looking for a Bongo hunt just yet. Much to far out of my league at present. Just wanted to know if you do.

I wasnt aware there was Bongo hunting in Ethiopia. I thought it was more in CAR or Cameroon?

Buell, you are more than welcome. It is a tough job but someone has to do it.

Chic