Saeed, in some rural areas of America some folks do not worry about whether something is legal or not.

They were raised up on farms/ranches and any animal or bird that might or could prey on poultry or livestock was shot on sight.

I have seen a lot of folks in this area that are/were older than me and have passed on now that any bird of prey was going to be shot if at all possible.

No excuses now days for doing that.

Back until about mid 70's they were not illegal to shoot here in CO. I didn't shoot many, but, it was commonly done by most of us.
Until the laws were changed. About that same time they outlawed DDT also. Around that time info was put out as to how helpful such birds actually are in controlling mice and pests. Until then we didn't know such things.

Many many times when out shooting prairie dogs the shooting draws hawks in from miles away. They'll circle around and when we start shooting another direction they'll land and start eating the dead ones. A lot of times hawks and burrowing owls will land and point out a p/dog for us to shoot. When we do, they'll hop right on it.

Many condem high powered scopes but, they sure pay off to ID burrowing owls when shooting out three to 700 yards. Sure don't want to shoot one by mistake, that's a lot of why I have 20x glass on my varmint rifles.

George

"Wonder what they should do to him?"

What ever the law says multiplied by 135.

For those who have been to Hawk Mountain in PA this is especially sickening.

quote:

Originally posted by slim buttes:
"Wonder what they should do to him?"

What ever the law says multiplied by 135.

Yep!

make him sleep with pelosi

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
make him sleep with pelosi

That would do it and add in Feinstein and Boxer, LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by Topgun 30-06:

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
make him sleep with pelosi

That would do it and add in Feinstein and Boxer, LOL!

Wowsers! I just got cold chills thinking about that!! GROSS!!!

They are just as lethal on game birds as wolves are on elk and deer
Elk and deer have three major predators and we hunt them all
Game birds have hawks and scavenger birds ( many ) to deal with and trying to survive
What say you gentlemen?

Here is the current STATE law in Montana

Montana Code Annotated
TITLE 87. FISH AND WILDLIFE
CHAPTER 5. WILDLIFE PROTECTION
Part 2. Wild Birds -- Regulation of Raptors Destruction Of Eagles Or Predatory Hawks And Owls

87-5-209. Destruction of eagles or predatory hawks and owls. Predatory hawks and owls destroying livestock or poultry may be killed at any time by the livestock or poultry owners. Eagles may be killed in compliance with federal law and regulation.

quote:

Predatory hawks and owls destroying livestock or poultry may be killed at any time

Coiuld bev wrong on this but I think the Keyword is "Destroying"!

I have this funny feeling that means the birds is going to have to be killed in the ACT and not just shot off a fence post 2 miles away.

sometimes it takes a little while to chase it down.

if you just spent your summers pay on a hunting puppy then watched a hawk swoop down and pick it up when it walked out the door to pee, you develop a strong dislike for them pretty quickly.

That is true and in that case you would have been able to shoot the bird.

Before anyone misinterprets my posts, Lora and I raise chickens and sell eggs.

Hawks don't give us any problems, and even though we raise sheep, we don't have any eagles in this area.

Great Horned Owls are another matter and are dealt with appropriately!

My point is, how about limited draw license just like for big game
That way, game birds have a chance and we can expand our hunting opportunities
For some people it can be cool mount in their house
Food for thought I suppose

Does not work that way Milan!

Just like people in this area shoot any/every coyote the see, even if they are driving down a county road and have to stop and shoot from the vehicle, people shooting birds of prey are no different and I have known several folks that any bird of prey was shot on sight, did not matter if it was a Red Tailed Hawk or a Sparrow Hawk.

Sounds like California has too many raptors! Thats alot of raptors to be on 80 acres. Bet there aren't any Quail around there.

God Bless, Louis

quote:

Originally posted by youngoutdoors:
Sounds like California has too many raptors! Thats alot of raptors to be on 80 acres. Bet there aren't any Quail around there.

God Bless, Louis

Exactly. Does anyone think this scumbag restricted his poaching to raptors? Hell no. He was sure as hell shooting quail (and everything else) out of season - but those got eaten. Poachers are criminals and they don't respect ANY game laws. Rules and laws are for chumps in their minds.

Snowy owls are legal game in Alaska. And it is documented that Golden Eagles are a significant predator of Dall Sheep. So are people. But it is illegal to shoot either of them. Works for me.

quote:

Sounds like California has too many raptors! Thats alot of raptors to be on 80 acres. Bet there aren't any Quail around there.

Unfortunately that is the very type of misinformed belief that causes incidents such as this discussion is about.

From my experience, quail and their nests are preyed upon by practically ALL terrestrial mammals up to and including incidents where white tail deer were recorded eating quail eggs from a nest. Hawks will take a quail if the opportunity arises, but none of them specifically target quail.

I am a cat lover, the wife and I have 3 that load up in my work truck just like dogs and make my daily rounds on the ranch I work on.

Yet if I see a feral house cat out on the property and it doesn't have a collar on it or is a mile or more from any house where people are living, I shoot it. It is pretty much proven fact that feral house cats kill more birds and small mammals than any other predator, mammalian or avian with automobiles coming in pretty high.

While a hawk can and will kill a quail if the opportunity arises, the way a quail lives under normal circumstances, they do not usually present easy targets.

For many years I raised pheasants here in Pa. for sporting clubs to plant on their property,as such I have seen the destruction a hawk or hawks bring to the pens. Not uncommon to have one swoop down over the netting and 20 birds break their necks or wings trying to flee their supposed threat.
I do not kill the hawks but I have no love for them and understand they have a purpose in the scheme of things but a pheasant here brings $20 a piece...I put more value on them!

Yes, they can cause a lot of havoc in a situation like you were in, but my guess is, and this comes from raising pheasants and quail and having had an Uncle that did the same, hawks aren't the only thing that would cause those birds to flush into the wire andv kill themselves or hurt themselves bad enough to have to be put down.

I have no love for them either, especially GHO's, but I dop like the sparrow hawk/Kestrel and Burrowing and Screech Owls.

I have known a few folks with the same attitude of the guy in the article, they saw a hawk it didn't matter where they were if they thought they could hit it they would be shooting ev en if it meant stopping in the middle of a county road.

I would bet that most people in this country don't know that there was a season for Great Horned Owls in many states once upon a time. The owls were considered a varmint and the hunt was supposed to be a difficult one in most cases.

There used to be lots of seasons for lots of things or no seasons at all, just shoot on sight, ain't that way anymore.

quote:

There used to be lots of seasons for lots of things or no seasons at all, just shoot on sight, ain't that way anymore.

With their numbers returning in large or greatly increasing amounts it is time to allow the killing of the ones causing trouble.

It is easy for the pendulum to swing to far one way or the other.

quote:

Originally posted by Lapidary:
I would bet that most people in this country don't know that there was a season for Great Horned Owls in many states once upon a time. The owls were considered a varmint and the hunt was supposed to be a difficult one in most cases.

When I was a kid there was a bounty on them and fox here in Pa.

quote:

Originally posted by 2th doc:

quote:

Originally posted by Lapidary:
I would bet that most people in this country don't know that there was a season for Great Horned Owls in many states once upon a time. The owls were considered a varmint and the hunt was supposed to be a difficult one in most cases.

When I was a kid there was a bounty on them and fox here in Pa.

I was a bounty hunter\trapper I collect bounty on fox and coyotes in Wis.

quote:

With their numbers returning in large or greatly increasing amounts it is time to allow the killing of the ones causing trouble.

Who makes that decision?????

There is one HELL of a difference shooting an owl or hawk or eagle when it is in the process of ACTUALLY killing or trying to kill something, and driving down a dirt road 5 miles or more away from your property and shooting a Red Tail off a telephone pole!

We used to raise peahens and peacocks.All of a sudden they started disappearing.They used to roost in some big white pines in back of my house.One night I heard some squawking out back and turned on the out door flood lights. There was a 10" barn owl with his talons in a peacocks head flying away with him.I just put the Peafowl in the barn at night after that.That little SOB Owl had a set of big ones. I had more problems with weasels than any raptor.

quote:

Who makes that decision?????There is one HELL of a difference shooting an owl or hawk or eagle when it is in the process of ACTUALLY killing or trying to kill something,

The owner of the live stock that are being attacked.

That was a Barn Owl with an attitude!

We have never had any problems with Barn Owls, but GHO's have gave us some problems over the years.

quote:

posted 17 March 2018 18:19
quote:
Sounds like California has too many raptors! Thats alot of raptors to be on 80 acres. Bet there aren't any Quail around there.


Unfortunately that is the very type of misinformed belief that causes incidents such as this discussion is about.

Crazy... So where do you think that I am misinformed? What is this discussion about?

You have talked all around the subject and haven't really said anything.

God Bless, Louis

Your comment about the numbers of quail or lack there of on an 80 acre plot of ground.

First, there would not be that many hawks RESIDENT on that small an acreage.

Second, even with perfect habitat, there would not be that many quail on that small an acreage in the first place.

Third, as I have intimated more than once in my comments on the subject, I have known and grew up around people like the person in the article that automatically did their best to shoot any and every hawk/owl even vultures any time/any where they saw one, did not matter whose property it was on or what it was doing, it was a Bird Of Prey and it needed to die.

Your misinformed about how much actual prerdation hawks/owls have on wild game bird populations in comparison to all the mammalian predatotrs, including feral house cats.

Unless they are nesting, birds of prey continually, move around their territories and with few exceptions, Burrowing Owls come to mind, rarely would say a red tail hawk have a territory that small.

I have been watching these type actions/attitudes for a little while and too many people are misinformed about the role hawks/eagles and owls play in the overall scheme of nature, they do not understand anything other than it is a Bird Of Prey and they should be killed on sight.

As for misinformed on your part, maybe you missed the part of the article: There, the officer found nine dead raptors — hawks, falcons, kites, eagles, vultures and owls — which provided wildlife officials with enough evidence to obtain a search warrant for the 80-acre property. The warrant was executed on March 11.

I seriously doubt that you can provide any evidence that vultures prey upon live quail, kites are basically insect eaters and owls, with the exception of Burrowing Owls, which are barely larger but doubtfully heavier than a quail, mainly hunt at night and from my exoerience quail roost at night and not in trees.

I think I have stayed on the subject with all my comments and I have had more than enough years experience to be comfortable making the comments I have made.

If I offended you that was not my intention, but if you do not understand that news stories such as this one, that are a factual account of a "Hunter" not only openly breaking the law, but indiscriminately shooting birds that may or may not prey upon Game Birds because of his personal belief, gives all hunters a bad name and this is the kind of press the hunting community does not need at any time.

The question one needs to answer is if you had a small dog running around and a shot gun in hand.

Then a large bird of prey was sweeping down to grab your dog and eat it.

Would you stand there and let it then say that just what birds of prey do.

Or would you use the tools at hand to stop the attack.

I know what my response would be.

I never saw anywhere they implied the poacher was a hunter.

I read that they had found 135 birds of prey and I assumed they were on his 80 acres of property or they wouldn't have needed a warrant. Granted they said the raptors were in varing degrees of decay; he at been poaching raptors for some time.

I was not just concerned for the numbers of Quail alone but for any and all small game. I just used Quail for an example.

My grandad and father lived when there was a bounty on "hawks" as they said it. You could take the beaks to the courthouse and recieve the bounty. Everyone used to have chickens and depended on their contribution to help survive. They also depended on small game to supplement their intake of protein. My grandad would shoot any "hawk" at any time and anywhere. He was not a poacher by any means but was an avid hunter.

I beleive that there has to be a balance of all Gods creatures and we should aid in that balance. I do not believe there are any creatures; that left totally protected at all times, that can not or will not get over populated. Most small game is cyclic in populations and predators are also. I do believe populations of raptors must have been at an all time high in the "poachers" area to have killed that many on only 80 acres.

In the area I live Black Headed Vultures are starting to be a problem eating calves as they are being born. I have never heard of this in the past but have the last two years. I am not sure all species of raptors still needs to be on the "Protected List".

Since trapping has taken a big decline and everyone doesn't have chickens now; all predator and raptor populations seem to have really taken off the last few years around where I live. I know small game is getting harder to find than I remember in my younger years.

You didn't offend me in any way I just wondered where you stood on the topic.

God Bless, Louis

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
The question one needs to answer is if you had a small dog running around and a shot gun in hand.

Then a large bird of prey was sweeping down to grab your dog and eat it.

Would you stand there and let it then say that just what birds of prey do.

Or would you use the tools at hand to stop the attack.

I know what my response would be.

Yah, that's what happened. The guy was walking his dog and it was attacked by a bird of prey. 135 times. He just used the tools at hand to stop the attack.

I guess Dave if you can't understand the point.

It would seem to be to be a personnel problem.

That guy should be in a mental asylum.

He sure has a blood lust with no conscience.

I would not allow him to own a gun!

This is not some kid ripping legs off mosquitoes like we have all probably done!

quote:

I never saw anywhere they implied the poacher was a hunter.

The uninformed PUBLIC and the Anti Hunting element view ANYONE with a firearm of ANY kind, that is using that firearm to KILL another species, be it animal/bird/reptile, as being a HUNTER!!!!!

It might be helpful if you started getting a little more involved on here so that you can understand that things have changed, and not for the better.

Hunters have somewhat became Pariahs in our modern world, and his actions are viewed by those that want to stop ALL HUNTING, as being just another "HUNTER" wanting to kill something.

It is not my intention at all to offend you, hunters are fragmented enough as is, we need to find ways to create some Common Ground.

What this guy did, killing all those birds for whatever his twisted reason, should be openly condemned by ALL hunters that conduct themselves Legally.

quote:

What this guy did, killing all those birds for whatever his twisted reason, should be openly condemned by ALL hunters that conduct themselves Legally.

But then on the other hand the totally worship of all animals, that none need killing.

Needs to be addressed also.

Yes it does, but some forms of mental illness can not be addressed. If it could I would put a South Pole address on those folks foreheads and send them there so they could be one with the Penguins.