What is the best entry level factory rifle in your opinion? Say around $500?
Remington ADL, Savage, Sig 970,CZ, Tikka or the push feed Winchester?
BB

[This message has been edited by buffalo_buster (edited 08-24-2001).]

Entry-level? Do you mean right out of the box? Or first gun for a new shooter? I have a favorite brand (Winchester) but that's not to knock any particular manufacturer. Walmart sells rifle/scope combos for under $350 over the counter. Really depends on your needs. Pawn shops or gun shops sell used rifles sometimes they are proud of them and sometimes you get a good deal. Now open another can of worms and ask what caliber.

i don't care what caliber you buy but make sure you buy a remington 700 adl, you can do so much with these rifles, and although inexpensive 389.00 a lot of them or shooters, have a gunsmith tune the trigger maybe a glassbed job, don't buy the 710 piece of junk, put the most money in your scope because if you can't see you can't shoot them and 9 times out of 10 that rifle will shoot alot better than me and you can

As far as bolt guns go, i like Ruger. If you do your part, it will do its. Ruger 77 in .35 Whelen would be perfect, wish they made one. It aint one of them whiz bang pow super ultra mags, but with them heavy bullets it doesnt matter how fast they're going, as long as you put it where it belongs the animal will go down. Also, dont count out lever actions. A good used .30-30 usually (from all that i've seen) will run you between 200 and 300 bucks. .30-30's in a rifle are capable of taking game out to 200yds and sometimes slightly more if you do some ammo searching and accurizing of the rilfe. Thats right, accurizing a levergun. Go to www.sixgunner.com to the back issues, Paco has a good article on accurizing them. You could also go with a lever action .35 Remington for a little extra umph and the bigger bullets (which i love). Single shots are also a good starting rifle. Ruger No.1's are awesome, but a little out of your price range. Harrington and Richardson makes a fine sigle shot rifle. I have never heard of one that wouldnt do 1 inch groups at 100yds, usually they are under. Excellent little rifle if you're willing to limit yourself to one shot. But, no matter what you shoot, the 1st shot should be the best, it only takes 1 hole thru both lungs or heart to bring an animal down. I dont care for semi-auto's, except i would take a Garand into the field, or M1A's. They proved themselves as great rifles in the battle fields of Europe, Africa, and Asia. All of the rifles you mentioned are good firearms. I like Savage and i like what CZ has been doing lately. Just look at every rifle you can, figure out what options you want, and what fits you best. Thats what matters. If you aint comfortable with the rifle, then you cant be accurate. Make sure it fits. And dont worry about doing sub MOA accuracy, each rifle will shoot better than you can. I've done some "impossible" shots with some so called "inaccurate" firearms.
cyberhick

BuffaloBuster,
It really depends on what kind of hunting you expect to do.
Is it blacktails and antelope? Boar and bears? Elk and mule deer?

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

It was a comparative question. Let's say Joe walks into the gun store with $500 in his pocket, and want to buy a brand new factory gun, which one should he get. Who makes the best rifle in his price range? Let's assume Joe already has a scope.

The caliber will be .30-06 or .270, just to make life easier.

I asked this question because I have absolutely no experience with any other rifle except Remington and Winchester. I have shot some savages and brownings but no real experience with them.
BB

In that case, I'd go with the Savage.

As a lefthander, I've had no experience with the Tikka, CZ, Winchester push-feed or SIG bolt-actions.

Remington quality control has slipped badly the last four or five years, which is too bad. They were my favorite rifle (I have 8 of them) until the LH M-70 CRFs appeared.

I have two Savage bolt-actions and they are accurate, reliable, and inexpensive.

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

I'd go with the Tikka, a whole lot of bang for the buck. I don't own one, but I was very impressed with their quality fit and finish compared to the Rem or Win, and I own several Win's. We won't even talk fit and finish on Savage, I know they shoot good, but they sure do look and feel like sh*t. One of the worst bolts I've ever operated, as far as feel of action goes, clunky bolt, yuk. I know the Savage lovers will flame me, but they have to admit, it's a pretty terrible finish, no matter how good they shoot. Flame on.

If your customer can spend $500, then go with the Tikka, or maybe a good used pre-64 Winchester, or used (older) Remington 700.

I wouldn't flame you for that statement, BB. I am the first one to say that Savages are "funky". However, they are accurate, dependable, and are a great value. They're certainly the best bargain in bolt-actions today.

And I thought the poster was asking about new rifles.

I know one fellow with a LH Tikka, and he loves it, but I've never handled or shot one.

George

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Shoot straight, shoot often, but by all means, use enough gun!

It is just as important to be able to have confidence in one's rifle, and to be comfortable shooting it. For North America, there are several excellent all-around choices; .270, .280, 30-06, .308, to name a few. Tolerance to recoil will most likely be the number one factor(given a decent rifle and scope). If price is a factor, the Savage 11x series and Remington ADL's are always a sound choice. Factory ammo is better than it has ever been, and if you reload, you're sure to find a great load with a little work. If recoil isn't a factor, a 300 mag will do for 98% of anything on this planet! Good luck and be safe.

I would be tempted to go with a savage. However there used to be some sale bargains with 700 ADL's. We'll see if they bother with that anymore, or put all their effort into the 710's, which I haven't looked at yet so I can't comment on.

For calibers personally I'd pick the '06, but I can see where the slightly lighter recoil of the 270 might be better for a first rifle.

BB,

$500 doesn't go to far anymore. Can't buy a CRF Winchester for that paultry sum. Basically leaves Remington (nothing fancy though), Savage, and Ruger.

Of these three:

1.) Remingtons are ok but push feeds.

2.) Savages are not quite as pretty as a Remnington (not that the Remingtons in this price range are things of beauty). They are accurate and dependable however.

3.) Rugers are CRF a plus not known for accuracy as the Remington and Savage rifles though. Also a terrible bedding system. The Ruger is undoubtedly the best looking though.

Therefore, based off of the calibers you specified I would go Ruger first (only narrowly though). With a toss up between the Remington and the Savage (both close behind the Ruger).

Tikka's in this neck of the woods are not under $500 unless someone is running a clearance sale (not happening too often).

If however you are fortunate enough to locate a CZ550 for under $500 I would pick it hands down and no concerns whatsoever. I can get CZ550 locally for $400, but I do not know if this is nationwide so I left CZ out of the above analysis.

Todd E

Ruger is the one.
Mine have been superbly accurate, after a trigger job and bedding, and often right out of the box.
The bedding system is excellent on the standard Model 77 Mk II, and you can have it in stainless or blue, with synthetic or laminated wood stock, or walnut. But you are limited to a short magnum action. Not a bad trade off.

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Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB

I must agree with Mr. Berry on this one. All of my Rugers have been shooters straight from the box, but the addition of Timney tiggers made them even sweeter. The local 'Marts have the M77 stainless/synthetic listed @ $469.00. But I also think the Remington 700 BDL in synthetic stock and parkerized finish that lists for around $375.00 should merit considerable consideration. Accurate and a little easier on the eyes than a Savage. Now, if you would only consider chambering it in .308 Winchester you would be well on your way to the perfect deer rifle....

There is no such thing as "best". Some are better than others in some way, but worse than them in others. You get what you pay for, IF at least two firms are selling the same thing.

Condidering price and accuracy I don't think either the Rem ADL or the Savage can be beat.

The Rem is a perfectly acceptable working tool right out of the box. Wal Mart has them in .270 or .30-06 for $349.

The Savages I have owned and tried need a trigger replacement. I believe they are a little cheaper than the Rem.

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To be old and wise.....first you have to be young and stupid!

RAB,

Which Ruger M77 MkII are you talking about having excellent bedding. I bought a 416 Rigby back in '92 from Ruger and that rifles bedding system plain sucks. You cannot get it not to move period. I have fired around 500 full power loads through that rifle and have had to stock put on it. I did finally fix it though by installing a barrel recoil lug (in place of that inserted thing in the stock) and soldering screwing on a receiver lug (which M77 MkII do not have).

I do agree with you however about them being reasonably accurate. Mine shoots between 1 and 2 MOA at 100 yards running the gambit of bullets and loads. I do not believe however for the application that is being dicussed here (30-06 & 270 Win) that the poor Ruger bedding system is much of an issue. It is however on a big gun.

Todd E

Todd E,
You are right about the M-77 Magnum MkII being an abomination, with the claptrap recoil plate dangling in the forend and no real recoil lug on the action or barrel. It may shoot well until the stock splits or it may not, depending on the luck of the draw.

The standard length Ruger Mark II M-77 with its recoil lug on the action and the 45 degree angled front action screw is arguably the only way anyone has ever improved on what is basically a Mauser 98 action, the Ruger Mark II Model 77.

Your remedy of an added Remington style recoil lug for the 77 Magnum (used in 375 H&H and 416 Rigby models) is the best remedy.

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Good huntin' and shootin',
RAB