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Read this in the latest issue of American Hunter magazine. Someone wrote in to say how great 12 gauge slugs work on dropping bison. Supposedly the hunters guide told him that he had never seen anything drop a bison so quickly as the hunters 12 slug at 50 yards. I would never personally use a 12 gauge for anything over 250 pounds let alone a bison bull! Am I wrong? Kent | ||
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I met a couple of National Park Rangers who worked in Yellowstone and Glacier and the 12 Guage with Slug was the weapon of choice for the big Bears who needed attitude adjustments. If it works on these individuals who are capable of rearranging your body parts I would think a buffalo would not be out of line. With the improvement of some of the projectiles these smooth bores are moving into the realm of the sure stops. | |||
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raamw have you ever seen a trophy size bull bison. They are about 5 times the size of a Yellowstone grizzly! I suppose that at close range and if you hit him squarely in the 12" square or "thinly muscled" ribs your 12 gauge would make it to the lungs. To me though this about like using a 22 LR! It is a trick shot pure and simple. The 12 gauge slug doesn't have much penetration. Hell it wont't go clear through a 150 pound white tail at 25 yards! Kent | |||
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I can only comment that the bison I dropped earlier this month was with one shot from my Remington rollingblock in .45-90, with a 520-grain bullet powered by 85.0 grains of black and a WLP primer. Distance was about 75-80 yards. Dropped on the spot. The outfitter said "They usually don't drop like that." I suspect he gets a lot of people using 7mm GeeWhizMags or whatever. I don't care how big you are, it's pretty tough to defeat 520 grains of lead when it's slammed into you. Russ ------------------ | |||
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| <Salt> |
Back in 94-95, JR's Lock, Stock, & Barrel was still open in Burien, WA and he sold a series of hunting videos using traditional muzzle-loading rifles. In one video, he was hunting Buffalo with his .54 caliber flintlock rifle loaded with patched roundball. He shot the running Buffalo from 125yds away and it dropped. | ||
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| <ovis> |
I had to take a black bear, medium size, with a 12ga. a hunter had screwed up. A Remington Copper Solid penetrated from his rear end, doing extensive damage to the spine along the way, and then breaking the off shoulder coming to rest under the hide. I normally would not shoot one with the shotgun but on that day circumstances dictated its use. It's the only bear I've ever taken with a shotgun and if, not my choice, had to do it again, I would only do it with a Remington Copper Solid. Excellent penetration. Bison? I think not! | ||
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| <ChuckD> |
Kent--Ya kinda gotta consider that in the past buffalo were killed with stuff like the .54 roundball @ 226 gr. ripping out there at a startling 1600 fps, or 45/70's with black powder, 420 gr projectile at maybe 1400 fps. I am a muzzleloader hunter, and have never used a 12 gauge slug, but at least on paper, 12 gauge slugs are clearly superior to what they used to use, assuming that adequate penetration occurs. I don't know about this issue of penetration, though. Anyone? | ||
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You make a mistake if you think most 12 ga slugs will penetrate as well as a good round ball or minie slug out of a muzzle loader . A Forster style slug is nothing but a soft hollow shell ...And the old time buffalo hunters moved up to the big Sharps cartridges as soon as they could get them .... I doubt there has ever been a shotgun slug made that will penetrate like Russ's 520 gr .45 caliber bullet ..... One of my neighbors that raises bison used a 12 ga and slugs to finish off a crazed buff that they first tried to head shoot with a 22/250 ..... it took quite a bit of lead to finsh the job . | |||
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Kent, I never shot a Buffalo with a 12 guage but I took a 1600 lb bull Bison last August with a 45-70 hard cast lead 405 at a chronographed 1350 fps and a broadside 2nd shot at 70 yds staggered it and it went down in about 5 yards , the first shot did not have much effect which was a goin away angle shot. Now reloading info on 12 guage Sabot slugs of 525 grains shows velocities of anywhere from 1300 up to 1600 fps, these far exceed the power of the 45-70Gov, 50-70Gov (550grn @1250 fps),50-90 Sharps (550grn @ 1400 fps), 50-110 Sharps (550grn @ 1450 FPS)This info was obtained from the Accurate reloading Book #2 and LymansShotshell reloading Manual. The latter calibers accounted for the total decimation of the millions of wild bison and I sure the lead cast bullets that killed them weren't as hard as the Slug /Sabots of today/ I have killed several deer with Slug and seen alot more and I have never seen one that did not have complete penetration, I have always said the 12 Guage slug was overpowered for deer but you can never be ridiculed for overkill only underkill. I never saw a deer shot with a 20 guage so I can't coment on that. | |||
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All, I took a Wood Bison in the Yukon Territory a couple weeks ago with my .416 Rem Mag pushing a 400 grain X-bullet at 2400 fps. Two quick broadside shots from 40 yards into the boiler room followed by a third into the neck finally dropped it. My guide said it was the FASTEST he had seen one of the Yukon Shaggies drop (they run about 20% bigger in the body than a plains bison). NONE of the bullets managed to exit which disturbed me a little. I also, to be honest, felt more than a bit undergunned when Bull #2 rounded the corner at about 25 yards to see what was up after my bull was down. Would I have wanted a 12 guage with ANY type of slugs in my hand at that moment . . . not only no but . . . HELL NO! Bull #2 trotted off which was nice of him since it took us 4 days to snowmobile the meat from Bull #1 off the mountain and I really didn't want to have the long discussion with the Game Dept about why I shot two of their Bison. Given this experience, I think I will have a .505 Gibbs built for my next trip up there! JMHO, JohnTheGreek | |||
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John that was my point exactly. These bulls are BIG and TOUGH. I wouldn't mind trying my 500 Jeffery out on one in the near future. Can you give some details on how you got your Yukon license? Kent | |||
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| One of Us |
Kent, The 500 Jeffery should work great especially on a Wood Bison. I doubt if anything any larger than a .338 or even some .30 cals is necessary on the plains variety assuming proper shot placement and bullet construction. I have used a 405 grain pill at relatively low factory velocity from a 45-70 on a Plains Bison and found it to be sufficient though not overly impressive. Regards, JohnTheGreek [This message has been edited by JohnTheGreek (edited 02-24-2002).] | |||
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quote: True enough. I think we can all envision the numbers concerned, behind the load I was using. So, I'm sure you'll all understand that I "KNEW" this bullet would go all the way through the bison, no matter where I shot. Therefore... being they are somewhat of a "stay with the herd" animal, I had a REAL tough time getting lined up on a shot that would ensure I did not kill "at least" one other bison ON THE OTHER SIDE. And... I was right. I got complete penetration -- which I expected, yes, but I sure would have liked to seen the bullet after it did its job. One thing that was shockingly apparent -- the lack of internal damage. I mean, I'm used to seeing the insides of things that have been shot with jacketed bullets... that is, "lots of damage" to internals, lost meat, et cetera. My bison kill was QUITE different. No evidence of "blow up" (which, of course, I never expected anyway) and there was virtually no loss of edible meat. The bullet went in one side, punched holes through various organs, and exited the other side... and bubba, you haven't seen ribs and other bones until you've looked inside one of THESE critters! We're talking BIG-A** bones! Heavily in the "WOW!" category. Anyway... yes, shooting the big, slow, heavy stuff... you REALLY want to make sure your target's "off" side is clear... unless you want to pay for another animal. Russ ------------------ | |||
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Hi prior to WW1 many french settlers in Africa were only armed with their S/S 12s And for hunting large games the german brennke slugs were loaded for this propose with heavier slugs at higher velocity to meet the requirment( 4000 joule energy) and many large games like buffs and rhinos were killed with this kind of slug. DON'T understimate a SHOTGUN: BR Danny | |||
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