(Thanks to everyone who advised me on the practical differences in velocity between the .308 Win and the .30-06 Spr.)

Another question is whether an Ackley Improved version of the .308 Winchester offers any real improvement in velocity over the standard .308.

(I understand the .243 and .270 Winchester have little or no velocity gains in AI form, but I've found nothing for or against the .308 Win AI.)

Well, the little 51mm case is pretty efficient the way it is, but any gain in case capacity will give you more room for propellant, which in turn will give you more velocity, all other things being equal (which they rarely are). Less brass stretching is also a common reason for Improving a cartridge. Velocity wise, I seem to recall the formula as a 10% increase in case capacity will net you a 5% increase in velocity. A rough estimate, but it will usually put you in the ball park. - dan

308 AI = 300 WSM

OK, having fun... seriously, if I wanted more power than a "standard" 308 and wanted it in a SA I'd get the 300 WSM.

[ 07-14-2003, 18:57: Message edited by: Brad ]

I think its kind of a good question--a lot of folks chat about this and that AI why not this one? Not that I'd ever go the route of an AI right Brad?

There is a of noise made about the 7/08 AI so I would guess this is something that I'd like to know. I would imagine you could increase it 100-1500 at the north end-about like most AI's.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

lets see Brad what does WSM stand for--winchester short man---grins it stil is still a 270 want to be.......

Improved .308? Sounds like a 30'06 to me But, yes, Brad hit the nail on the head...any real improvement over the 308 would need to be either the 300WSM, 308 Patriot, or 300SAUM...otherwise you're just trying to ring too much performance out of an already efficient case.

PS..Brad and Mark-I've been working down at Yellowstone Gateway Sports at 4 corners...I'd love it if you guys stopped in and introduced yourselves. So if you're ever in the area, please stop by. (I'm the guy with the long hair)

Agreed a .308 AI iSSSSSSS a 30-06!! That's most likely what kind of performance increase you would see. A couple hundred FPS is 30-06 velocities. So buy an -06 it will be cheaper then a re-barrel? Unless you like spending the money-hey if you could afford me a few bucks I have a a wish list I'd like to shorten.

[ 07-14-2003, 21:52: Message edited by: Gunnut45/454 ]

FWIW, there's a very good article in the latest "Precision Shooting" magazine on the Ackley line by Bob Jourdan. Sure opened my eyes. One of his points is that unless you can gain a 6% increase in velocity, then it isn't worth doing. Looking at the .257 Imp. which I always thought of as one of the better ones, the gain is only about 5% in the Ackley version when compared to the .257 +P cartridge but about a 9.4% increase above a standard .257 cartridge. I don't know much about the .308 personally but from what I understand, it's quite efficient as is. I think I'd do a lot of careful research before I improved it. Just my comments, not that they're worth a whole lot. BTW, the best cartridge to improve was the .25-35 WCF at a gain of 25.6% the worst one was the 6mm Rem. at 3.2%.
Bear in Fairbanks

[ 07-14-2003, 22:09: Message edited by: Bear in Fairbanks ]

The 308 case already has very little body taper. The sharper shoulder angle might increase capacity by 1 grain or so. The difference in performance would be virtually nil. Regards, Bill.

So if this is the case, then to me it would seem that in regards to the 7/08 AI you may as well have a 280 and there is no reason to do so right!?

And dare I say why go WSM when you can go Winnie and so on-right?

Just bored stay with me gang

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Balisarda,

I think Dan and Brad are right on the money. A .300 WSM is not a bad option though, I was down in Grande Prairie for the day yesterday and looked at one in a Winchester stainless while I had some time to kill. A very tempting option I must say.

444... I saw you in the in the store on Saturday... sandy/redish-blonde hair right?

I'll stop in in a few days and chat... what's your usual schedule?

BA

Ackley himself suggested his only successes were the 7x57, 250 Sav, and 257 AI....that about puts it where it should be IMO....

These are the 3 "best" 30 caliber cartridges and IMO are each perfect for their catagory and none are likely to ever be improved upon.

300 Whisper for lightweight duty and suppression.

308 Winchester for most everyday duty (including medium to large game hunting) with unmatchable inherent accuracy and ease of loading.

300WSM is the big brother of these cartridges and I believe it will be treated by historians as the perfect high powered 30 caliber cartridge. I have only had mine a few short months and am totally amazed at it's versatility and inherent accuracy and all that out of a short action cartridge!

$bob$

The main attraction of the AI type cartridges is to have "something different" without having to go the full custom route. I have READ that AI cartridges stretch much less, after forming, than their parent cartridge. This would be a plus. I have also READ and heard, however, that you can get into feeding and extraction problems with an AI unless you have a smith that is well experienced in building AI's. The phenomenal gains in velocity that you hear about just aren't there.

Yeah, that was pbly me...I'm the only guy working there w/ long hair (a symbol of my freedom, still being a college student). I usually work Sat, Sun, Mon, and Tues....but I won't be working there this weekend, since I have another job, catering for MSU as well, and have events scheduled for Sat. and Sun. I'm really looking forward to chewing the fat w/ you fellow Bozemanites.

308WImP ?????
Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

Just an observation here but not many direct answers to a direct question here.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Tailgunner:

Good one!!!