For those that are not familiar the Big Hole Valley in SW Montana is one of the 10 most beautiful places on earth!
I have Hunted Elk, Grouse and Bear there for more than 30 years now (as well as having fished there for Arctic Grayling, Brook Trout and Whitefish)! The Big Hole is the highest large valley in Montana! The natural grass and hay that grows there is the most nutritious grass grown anywhere in North America! The grass used to be shipped (1890's through the 1940's) by rail to the Kentucky area to feed the racehorses and their studs and sires and colts. The owners of said horses claimed the grass improved their animals in many ways! The Elk love this grass also!
Now I am not going to relay to you my Hunting experiences there (which is considerable!) but I am going to relay this past seasons Elk Hunting experiences of two LONG TIME Big Hole Valley resident Elk Hunters to you!
One Hunter is a lifelong Hunter/Trapper/Fisherman! He is 86 years old. He Hunted Elk in the Big Hole this past season, virtually every day of our 36 day long Elk Rifle season! My friend LIVES with the Elk year round! He is out on his snowmobile ALL winter long running various traplines north and south of his home in Wisdom (population 75) right there in the heart of the Big Hole (I often glass Elk from his porch!). The other Hunter I will cite this past seasons experiences from is 57 years old and also a lifelong resident and Hunter of Elk there in the Big Hole country! He not only Hunted Elk in Montana all season long he usually Hunts Elk in Idaho just over the border from his place in the Big Hole!
He is an Elk Hunting machine!
Now both Hunters have relayed to me in the past week (independently!) that the Elks normal haunts, movements, bedding areas, feeding times AND populations have been adversely affected by WOLVES in recent years, but this past season was the absolute worst Hunting situation ever! The Wolves just kept tormenting, chasing, harrying and keeping out of the norm, the population of Elk in this whole huge area!
Now that is what Wolves do - I know that. But the point they were making and I concur with is - there are to many Wolves and virtually every group of Elk they came across was in unusual places, extra flightey and slender!
This valley by the way is 160+ air miles from Yellowstone Lake in the center of Yellowstone Park!
Now again let me emphasize the expertise and longevity of these two Hunter/nature observers! I know of no more dedicated and learned Elk Hunters than these two men!
There was emotion in the voices and tears in the eyes (of one) of these men when they relayed their seasons experiences to me!
I was saddened also!
My trapper friend relays how for the last five years he comes across Elk kills when he travels his Traplines with Wolf tracks leading to and from them. Often not 1/10 of the Elk is eaten! Sometimes they are just killed and nothing is eaten of the Elk! Sometimes they are mostly devoured.
I know - this is what Wolves do!
But I also know the Wolves are way over-populated and they are hurting Hunting opportunities and the quality of Hunting in many areas!
Both my friends relayed seeing and hearing more Wolves this year than ever before. More Wolves equals more Elk stress and even adverse affects on Elk numbers!
Please take the time to notify your legislators and governors about the over population of Wolves and the failure of the feds to hold to their promise of strict population controls of Wolves!
Also make sure your Fish and Game bureaucrats are made aware of any unhappiness you may feel regarding the over population of these re-introduced predators!
We have a fight to save the Elk on our hands and we better get to it.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG
Being a lifelong Montana elk hunter who has hunted the bighole area for more than 30 years chasing them damn elk I totally agree with you, however, I will say that this last hunting season I think the totally strange weather we had also had a major effect on where the elk were. I have never seen a season with as little snow as we had this year. Couple that with more grass in the high country than I have ever seen and you have a recipe that made the elk behave differently than normal.

The wolfs are definatly having a effect and unless something changes and we are allowed to control the wolf population the hunting is only going to get worse. Also have you noticed how badly the mulies are doing? Mulie populations are cyclic but they have been down for way to long. Something (predetors) are keeping them from building up.
Good hunting
Russ

MtElkHunter: Russ: Thank you very much for your input!
I love the Big Hole but tragically the fires a few years back wiped out the area I Archery Hunted and I have not been back there as yet Archery Hunting it! I'll bet the grass is doing real well now where those fires were.
Yes we have been having weird weather and little snowfall for several years now! Also there are a lot of Cougar in the Big Hole as well as a fair number of Black Bear on the west side!
A few years back I was going with one of my friends back to his Elk kill sight to help him pack out more meat. As we approached the sagey sidehill that his Elk was on we finally got into a dusting of snow. We crossed Coyote, Wolf and Cougar tracks in the half mile wide park that the Elk was in and in the half mile of forest we crossed getting to it! We became worried that the carcass may have been harmed by some of these predators, during the night he had left the Elk in the field. No harm had been done by the predators though. My friend had "marked" the area around the Elk as best he could before leaving it the evening before.
I am attempting to link a story in todays Dillon paper (Dillonite Daily) where they state "1,000 Wolves now populate our tri-state area (Wyoming, Idaho and Montana)" along with some other tid-bits!
I read the article in the paper just a bit ago while I was in town but it has not been posted on the www site as yet so maybe tonight or tomorrow I will have its link posted for everyone's consideration.
My friends also bemoan the fact that Moose numbers are down in the Big Hole!
Interestingly my older friend was running his trapline via snowmobile near Mussigbrod Lake a few years ago. It was in January and his wife was on the snowmobile behind him. They came around a bend in the creek and here was a full grown Moose being killed by a Cougar! The Cougar had hold of the Moose by the front of the throat and literally choked the Moose to death in front of them! They were about 150 yards away and the Moose succumbed after only a couple minutes!
Yeah in years past I used to see the occassional big buck Mulie on the high ridges when I was archery Hunting for Elk in late September and early October there in the Big Hole. Again I think its just to many predators for them to bounce back to previous numbers. Back my way from Wisdom near the Hairpin Ranch I see a few Mule Deer most every time I go through there but nothing like 20 years ago. I also see some Whitetails just north of Jackson between there and Wisdom. But they know better than to venture far from the ranches! I am guessing the altitude where those Whitetails are making a living at is 6,350' minimum! That makes for a long winter!
I have two friends who still archery Hunt the west side of the Big Hole and they were in Elk every time they went out to hear them tell it. Only once did they hear Wolves at night. They were unsuccesful in harvesting an Elk though this fall.
Thanks again for your observations.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Allthough wolves were once native to your country, I think it was a huge mistake to re-introduce them. I am no biologist but while the wolves have been gone, things have changed. I don't think it is simple as just re-introducing them. I think by throwing wolves back into the mix with so much game available that weren't accustomed to a preditor like this allowed the wolves to expand too fast. I bet the biologists know this and I bet they aren't saying $hit!

I recall when they first re-introduced wolves in the lower 48. Alot of you were concerned for obvious reasons. I hate to say it but it is looking like a worst nightmare. I feel for you on this. I wish there was something you guys could do.
I do not want to offend anyone but I think only 2 things are going to happen. Either, the wolves will decimate your game. Some game may never recover. After the game has been decimated, then the wolf numbers will drop drasticaly.
Or you hunt the living $hit out of them. Poison, what ever it takes.
I do not believe in destroying all the wolves, but I think it was a big mistake not to control them after they were re-introduced.

I hope this situation improves.



Daryl

Vguy... This whole situation sucks... I haven't hunted the Big Hole in a few years but I do hunt a little closer to "home" every year for about a week or so each year, used to be a lot more, but since I moved out of state I make due with what I have for now. I grew up in Ennis, most all my family still lives there and has for over 125 years! I have hunted around there for the last 18 years, and my dad has hunted there for over 40, along with his brother with as much hunting time, plus the rest of our family...

My Uncle has lost cattle to the wolves, neighbors have lost family pets, etc, etc... We've seen the wolves chase the elk around on the flats, with no where to go, we've seen wolves with in 200 yards of an occupied house, those fuggers are everywhere. The numbers they fish and game puts out is a bunch of BS. I would easily say there are 50% more than what they claim.

This last fall I was in SW MT for archery season, the weather was not all that great, but we still managed to get into elk quite a few times. We hunt with in about 20 air miles of the park... I will say this though, we did see more elk this year than in years past, but thats hunting... I have a feeling that the elk were getting pushed over the top to us from "wolf" pressure...

I was just back there at Christmas, and I will tell you this. I did see quite a few elk on the winter range, It appeared to be a few less than usual but at least they were there. Its really hard to say for sure, since it was T shrit weather for a few of those days... The thing that I found really disturbing was the number of mule deer!!!

I spotted a bunch of areas that used to hold a lot of deer, litterly hundreds... I glassed/spotted over 15 miles of "face hill" winter range. I counted a total of about 80 deer... and half those where in someones back yard. I should have counted a hell of a lot more deer than that. One area in particular used to hold about 2-400 deer each year... THis year I saw a total of about 15 in that area... Its like the deer just vanished. In the week I spent in the mountains during archery season we saw ONE deer all week, ONE. We used to see about 20-30 a day... There is a serious problem happening with the mule deer accross that whole SW MT area!

I'm not sure the reason for the decline, or exactly what should be done about it right now. All I know is what I saw in the two weeks of glassing and hunting. The deer numbers I saw were a pale comparison to what they were over 10 years ago! I'm going to guess that there isn't even 10% of what there was 10 years ago!!! I'm not sure what the problem is. I dont' think its the lions, as they get hunted a lot harder now than they did 10 years ago, and I really dont' think its the coyote, since the wolves have eaten most all of them... It's quite perplexing to me. Could the wolves have killed that many deer??? I dont' know, all I know is it's looking really bad for the deer.

Ivan: Thanks for your information and input! Its just amazing that Wolves will come so close to houses and ranches! They are showing this "immortal" or fearless attitude in my neck of the woods also! I was up in the Gravelly range year before last now and I was changing basins from the morning Hunt to the evening Hunt and along came two Wolves on an Elk herds track. They had their noses down and they trotted right by me in my truck on the forest service road. They were not 25 yards off the road and 50 yards form where I stopped (with diesel engine running)! My partner and I were just about speechless!
One rancher not 8 miles from my place last year heard his dogs barking and went outside to his field and a pack of Wolves had killed 22 of his sheep! No "feeding" was at yet apparent! So he scares off the Wolves gets on the phone for official help and the next morning moves his sheep into the corral next to his ranch house! He was waiting for the feds and Wardens to come and "observe" his loss! The next night the Wolves were back now having to "jump" the fence to get into the pen and they killed 7 more before he "scared them off"!
I used to Hunt the Mule Deer around the Ruby Reservoir hills a lot 25 years ago. I specifically remember on several occassions counting 100 Mulies in a day and the most I can recall counting was 150!
Well anymore if a person sees 15 in a day then its considered notable.
I can not lay all the blame on Wolves for the decline in this area but I do know lots of Mt. Lion frequent that part of the valley and the Coyotes are like a plague there. I do know its a shame that the Big Game animals are suffering in those hills!
I will attempt again today to link the article in my local little paper that cites 1,000 Wolves! I wonder where he got his info? Maybe I will call him for his source.
Thanks again for your sharing your recent experiences. I hope the Mulies come back around here!
I do have this to share. I Hunt a lot of Varmints in eastern Montana every spring. Over the decades I have noticed a change in the Antelope fawning procedure. The doe Antelope now get as close to a county road or Highway as they can (I mean like 50 to 100 yards!) and they bear their fawns right by the roads! In my mind I know why they do this its to try and thwart the Coyotes that literally follow them in the field just waiting for the fawns to drop in the spring! The doe Antelope assume a "humped back" posture for some (several?) hours just before they give birth. I can easily recognize this "birthing posture" even from hundreds of yards away! I am sure the Coyotes notice it also! Anyway whenever I am Hunting over east in the spring (late May) and I see a doe Antelope in this "posture" I simply pull over and start glassing for Coyotes! There is most often at least one following the doe! I have seen this situation hundreds of times!
One spring I was travelling to my local Rifle range and came across a doe Antelope up near the fence just 40 yards from the county road. She was in birthing posture. I instictively looked for Coyotes but saw none around her in the ranches pasture. I go to the range to fire my Rifle a few times to verify my zero! Well low and behold I had brought the wrong MTM box of ammo. I head back home! Now the doe Antelope has blood on her inner thigh and has given birth to her fawn. Two Coyotes were on the far side of her from the road! Well I did not have permission to shoot on that ranch and I did not have the right ammo for the Rifle I had so I just stopped, honked and yelled til the Coyotes ran off! I go home and am returning now past the doe Antlelope and her fawn. She now has TWO fawns on the short grass flat AND not one but TWO Golden Eagles are now swooping at the fawns! I stop again and contemplate nature and the tough times Antelope, Deer and Elk go through out "in the wild"! The Eagles flew away and the fawns lay motionless about 30 yards apart!
I finished my range session and came back by and the Antelope were still there. One of the fawns was standing now and being licked by its mother!
I do know that Coyotes take Mule Deer fawns but I have less first hand knowledge about how the Coyotes predate on them.
I often chide the local wardens to implore their census people to offer more Cougar tags in SW Montana. I have not noticed any movement in that regard as yet.
More later
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG
What part of eastern MT do you go to hunt varmints? I use to hunt them around miles city years ago. I guit shooting varmints about 15 years ago when I finally shot out my old .223 and sold it. I kind of miss shooting the little critters. You kind of got me thinking I will have to get another varmit rig and go back to it again because I did have alot of fun. I would have to find somewhere closed than eastern montana because I hate driving that far. I have heard they have some good prairie dog towns around there. Hummmmm I wish you had not got me thinking about this because I am going to be worthless the rest of the day....
Russ

MtElkHunter: I literally Hunt every direction from Miles City for Coyotes and Prairie Dogs! I have also been doing some Varminting north of the Ft. Peck in the last few years!
Get a new Rifle! There are lots of Coyotes out there!
Now Russ, remember, that the practice one gets while Varmint Hunting is of a benefit to ones Big Game Hunting/shooting skills!
If you live west of Livingston then the Ground Squirrels and a good 22 LR will get you out in the spring and summer with not much fuel invested!
Get after'em again!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

News Articles:

From Dillonite Daily - Thursday January 13, 2,005:

Grey Wolves!
"On January 14th 1,995 (ten years ago) the first grey wolves were introduced into Yellowstone Park. From that introduction of less than 50 of the animals it is estimated that 1,000 of the animals are now in the mountain states area!
According to the government 278 cattle and 800 sheep were wolf lunch by the year 2,003.
The cause for alarm is the depletion of the Northern Yellowstone Park Elk Herd from 19,000 Elk in 1,995 to 8,000 Elk in this years count.
Last month four wolves were seen crossing the Sweetwater Road five miles out (Five miles out of the city limits of Dillon - VarmintGuys clarification)
the article continues:
Several packs are in Beaverhead County, including in the Big Hole, Lima Peaks, Sage Creek, Upper Blacktail, the Centennial Valley and the Sweetwater.

*** then in the next days Dillonite Daily came this article:

From the Dillonite Daily - Friday January 14, 2,005:

Wolf Update!
Just a little update for you on the "Ten Years After". Tuesday afternoon (January 11, 2,005) Ms. Rita Sawyer (she and her husband live on the old Chaffin place up the Blacktail and are employed by the Matador Cattle Company) took her Golden Lab dog for a walk when they came upon two wolves. The wolves did get their teeth into the Lab but she was able to make a fuss enough to get them off before they could deliver a fatal bite.
Word has it she had to get within 10 yards of the wolves before they would leave. The biggest armor she was packing was her chap stick tube. They (the wolves) followed her and her dog at about 60 yards until coming to her house when they (the wolves) veered off and disappeared.
They (the wolves) had paid Ray Marxer a visit some nights earlier at his home and howled at his dogs, but didn't get them coaxed out. It is believed this is the same pair (of wolves), one black and one gray, that killed 14 of Rebich and Konen's bucks (unknown specie?) in the Blacktail some six weeks ago. They (wolves) have also been spotted in the Centennial Valley touring through the Duffner cattle herd. Local Fish & Wildlife Services Specialists have been directed to destroy the two (wolves) but so far they (the wolves) have stayed out of sight of efforts from the ground and both fixed wing and helicopter efforts to locate them.
The "Freeze Out" pack that grew from 8 a year ago to 14 this year was last seen in the upper Ruby. Probably on one of their regular pilgrimages from the Gravelies to Sage Creek by way of the upper Blacktail. The "Battlefield" group whose numbers have been taken down from an estimated 16 (wolves) to 9 (wolves) by Wildlife Service Specialists were noted in the upper Grasshopper area in recent days. Various other sightings including some wolves in the cattle up Bloody Dick, are not beleived to be part of any of those other groups!

End of article.

In other words my town of Dillon is literally encircled by Wolves, and they are bold and indiscriminate!

More later.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VarmintGuy this is the best post you have done on the wolves yet.

Seems like two of the biggest problems with those wolves is the lack of fear of man and the pack size. 16 is a large pack from what I have read. I was reading somewhere about tri-state wolves that mentioned packs as large as 35 wolves.

The good news is the wolves need a lot of game to sustain such large numbers and thier numbers will quickly decline when the prey numbers decline.
Bad news is the prey is the deer and elk.

If you folks down in Mt. Id. Wy. and neighboring states don't get off your butts and do something, you can kiss big game hunting goodby!
Alaska tried for years to "control" wolves, using poison, aerial shooting, bounties and anything else they could think of. They were barely able to keep them under control.
Wolves are not "bad" animals, they are just doing their job, which is to kill stuff, and they real good at that.
I know personally some of the guvment folks who are responsible for the reintroduction of wolves down there. They cut their teeth up here. I can tell you this, Do not trust them, they will lie to you in a heart beat.
There is one solution, and its not a new one, if the law will not protect you, you protect yourself.
If every hunter, rancher and farmer shoots every wolf they see, you MAY be able to control them. If not, you will lose. Mother Nature is a bitch. Its takes agressive action to control wolves once they are in a an area.
Do the research on wolf control in Alaska for the past 50 years if you doubt this.
Good luck.
PS, I shoot every wolf I see!

Montana and Idaho are about to be allowed some control. A wolf can be shot there if it attacking livestock or pets. The USF&W allowed this in those states becuase Mt. And Id. came up with control plans to Ed bangs liking. Wy did not. The USF&W denied Wy's plan. Three lawsuits were filed, One by the state, one by a livestock group and one by SFW, Sportsman for Wildlife, a grass roots pro hunting group. A federal judge made all three combine for one suit against the feds. I support them for trying to stand up against the federalies! I showed my support by joining SFW, and donating money to them. Every pro hunting wildlife organization and hunter that has an issue with to many wolves, needs to stand up and be heard and show some initiative by supporting these groups.

RMiller: Thanks for the kind words and your views.
Just this past Saturday I and two friends were in my VarmintMobile heading for Bozeman, Montana and the sportsmans show there! It was the coldest day of the year (-20 degrees below zero when we arrived in Bozeman at 9:30 AM!) and the 110 mile (each way) journey took us past many wintering herds of Elk, Deer, Antelope AND domestic stock! On the high ridge pass between Virginia City, Montana and Ennis, Montana I spotted what at first I thought was a pair of Coyotes about 600 yards off the road. Well one of the "Coyotes" was black! The three of us saw and concurred that they were indeed Wolves. This high, sunny, windy ridge is home for many wintering Mule Deer! The Wolves were definitely Hunting as they were trotting in one direction with their noses near the ground!
Unfortunately your prediction that the Big Game will suffer due to this over-population of Wolves is positively true! And in the worst case scenario once the Wolves have decimated the Big Game the Wolves down here (do you really live at the North Pole?) will fall back on domestic animals! And there are a lot of domestic animals around here! Left as it is now the uncontrollable Wolf populations will decimate our Big Game Herds and then simply eat cattle, sheep, pets and other domestic animals along with whats left of our Big Game Herds. This "suffering" along with the Wolf "problem" could exist for decades!
Even a Llamma (sp ?) was killed by the Wolves a couple years back. This Llamma was up near where I Hunt spring Bear in NW Montana. The owner of the Llamma was quoted in the paper as saying he did not want to be re-imbursed for the loss because "they" were living on the Wolves turf and the Wolves were just being Wolves!
"Volunteer victims" was how we referred to these folks, back in my professional days!
Nope, I do not want our hard fought for Big Game herds to be decimated by the Wolves anymore than they already have been!
By the way at the sportsmans show topic #1 was the Wolf problem that is affecting many and varied Hunting opportunities here in the northern Rockies!
I looked right "through" the two, poor, dumb, green, dweebs manning the rmef booth - when they solicited at me! I shook my head and walked off! Thinking to myself - why would two regular looking guys be involved with any organization that purports to be pro-Elk and pro-Elk Hunting yet it won't lift a finger to protect Elk from this decimation by Wolves???
I could come up with no rational answer!
I did pick up an application for membership to the Safari Club International organization though as they have an upfront and aggressive position to harness this outrageous over-population of Wolves here in the Rocky Mountains!
Thanks for nothing rmef!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Home > News > Wyoming > Wolves hurt some, help others



Star-Tribune environmental reporter Monday, January 17, 2005




JACKSON -- Sure, you can talk about the economic implications of wolf reintroduction. Some people have lost money, others have made some.

But for Jon Robinette, the issue is much deeper.

"It changed our whole lifestyle," said Robinette, general manager of the Diamond G Ranch in the DuNoir Valley northwest of Dubois. "Instead of being able to go to bed and sleep, we have to get up and check for wolves."

Robinette has had his run-ins with wolves. He has lost six dogs since wolf reintroduction. He has had dogs killed out the back door. He has had horses killed in corrals and in pastures. He has lost cattle.

Still, Robinette, who says he was not in favor of reintroduction but recognizes that ways have to be found to live with wolves, said pinning a number to his losses is problematic.

"There's a whole scenario here, not just how much money did you lose," he said.

He has hired additional riders to look out for animals killed -- and to protect the evidence to determine what happened. That process, too, can take up to 12 hours, Robinette said, and the riders cost about $4,000 a month, for five months.

Then there's the impact to the cattle: Weights go down if cattle are stressed or being moved a lot. Reproduction rates might go down. Calves killed are a loss of about $1,000.

Before 1997, Robinette said the most cattle he lost was 22. In 1997, 61 calves were dead or missing. In 1998, 56 were lost; in 1999, he lost 53. Last year, there were nine confirmed wolf kills and 22 missing calves -- and that's just the number above those he knew wolves had nothing to do with.

While Robinette has lost money from wolves, others, like Bob Richard, might have made some.

Richard is the owner of Grub Steak Expeditions out of Cody, a custom sightseeing tour business.

Although Richard said an absence of wolves "would not change my business one iota," he does receive requests from people to see wolves.

"Last year we saw over 45 different wolves," he said. He takes clients to Yellowstone and into the Shoshone National Forest. Costs are about $375 for a full-day tour for two adults.

Last year, he said out of 1,900 clients, "a couple of hundred" wanted to see wolves. For the most part, people prefer bears or geysers, he said.

Have wolves helped his business?

"It has contributed to interesting private tours," he said. "Wolves were reintroduced, and I think we're going to see a very rough road ahead for the wolves over the next couple of years."

And there are people such as Rick Hoeninghausen, director of sales and marketing for Xanterra Parks and Resorts, which operates in Yellowstone National Park.

"There's definitely evidence that it has been helpful," he said of wolf reintroduction.

The company has offered wolf-watching packages, which has boosted winter tourism rates. More offerings in spring and fall have boosted sales as well.

Anecdotally, Hoeninghausen said he has seen a lot of people in turnouts on the road to Lamar Valley with spotting scopes, and more traffic on the road. Lamar Valley is a hot spot for wolves.

"From a business perspective, from a park experience perspective, I can definitely see that it has brought a positive impact," he said.

Gene Bryan, executive director of the Cody Chamber of Commerce, said wolves have been a "mixed bag" for businesses in Park County.

"There is an element here that supports wolf reintroduction in Yellowstone National Park but is very concerned about the impacts the wolves are having outside the park, i.e. on the traditional livestock industries related to cattle and sheep production and especially the impacts they are having on wild game populations -- elk, deer, bighorn sheep, moose -- and the resultant impacts on the outfitter industry and resident-non-resident hunting," he said.

Still, University of Montana economist John Duffield conducted studies to cast wolf reintroduction in an economic light, according to Associated Press reports. He asked people how much they would be willing to contribute to a fund supporting reintroduction.

Then, Duffield factored in the projected costs of reintroduction (opportunities lost to recreational hunters, livestock lost to predation, costs of wolf management). His analysis showed benefits outweighing costs by $6 million to $8 million.

Increased Yellowstone visitation because of wolves is expected to bring in up to $23 million, he said.

Managing wolves

Of course, there's a cost to the public for wolf management.

Wolf recovery coordinator Ed Bangs of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service said that agency spends about $200,000 each year for wolf management in Wyoming, compared with about $300,000 in Montana and even more in Idaho.

At the same time, the Wyoming Game and Fish Department last year spent just under $119,000 to manage the gray wolf in Wyoming, even though the state doesn't have jurisdiction over the animals.

In 2000, Game and Fish spent about $11,000 on wolf management. That figure dropped to $6,700 in 2001 but rose to $37,100 in 2002, according to Game and Fish data.

Wolf management costs rose dramatically in 2003 to about $506,000. Agency fiscal officers said most of the cost increase was attributed to the development in 2003 of a wolf management plan for Wyoming.

The agency's final management plan estimated the costs of a Game and Fish-managed wolf program after delisting would be about $395,000 per year. But Game and Fish directors later revised that estimate and now believe wolf management costs will approach $1 million annually after delisting.

They said the potential cost of the management program will depend on the complexity of the monitoring program and the amount of land occupied by wolves.

Defenders of Wildlife pays ranchers compensation for confirmed wolf kills.

In Wyoming, Defenders paid $28,096 in 2004, compared with $10,803 in 2003. In 2002, payment totaled $21,506 in Wyoming, and payments were about $14,000 in 2000 and 2001.

The group has paid out $144,000 to ranchers in wolf country around Yellowstone since 1995.

But all that talk of money means nothing to Robinette. Even though the ranch manager has seen his death losses skyrocket from 1.5 percent to about 8 percent a year after reintroduction, he still favors listing the animal as trophy game.

"Then you can manage the packs that are not acceptable," he said. With predator status for wolves, there is no compensation program. Livestock killed because of trophy game predation allows ranchers to receive compensation. The Legislature would have to change the rule to allow predator kills to be eligible for compensation, he said, and that means skunks, coyotes and a host of others would be on the list.

"The sooner we get the animals delisted, the sooner we can manage them," he said. "Wildlife is going to be helped, agriculture will be helped. It's not working the way it's going. I'm not anti or pro -- I just live with it."

Star-Tribune reporter Jeff Gearino contributed to this report.

Environmental reporter Whitney Royster can be reached at (307) 734-0260 or at royster@trib.com.

I live in the city of North Pole about 10 miles from Fairbanks .

Alaska wolf packs average 6-8 wolves. The smaller packs or pairs of wolves won't decimate game herds. But larger packs could certainly cause damage. A cow moose can defend against one or two wolves.

If I owned lifestock down there my family dog would be one of these:

or five.

This wolf just met a Caucasian Mountain Dog !

R Miller: Thanks for the information and I must apologize for seeming to be nosey! I have never heard of the Town of North Pole, Alaska! I thought you were just making a "funny" with your listing "North Pole" as your location!
Again I need not have been that nosey!
I am sorry!
Thanks for the photos also by the way!
I have never seen a large pack of Wolves here in Montana myself. All I have seen were couples and singles in Montana! I have heard what I am sure were packs though but no telling how many! I did see 4 Wolves at once about 12 miles northeast of Jackson Hole, Wyoming last year though.
My trapper friend says he saw a pack of 12 to 14 Wolves here in Montana a couple years ago.
I heard a college type make reference to these reported larger than normal packs as Wolves that are "acclimating" to new surroundings and more than one female in a pack being impregnated in a particular year (as is apparently the norm in more traditional Wolf ranges). Thus the 12 to 19 Wolves in a pack around here.
I don't know!
I have seen tracks in the snow of packs of Wolves that surely had to be 8 animals at least in them!
We have lots of powder snow around here!
Thanks again for the photos and input!
I am headed for my Atlas to view your "neck-o-the-woods!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy