Well, I hope to save others a potential problem...

I started a thread here several weeks back regarding the 300 WSM and my initial findings. My thoughts mainly centered around the rifle's accuracy and velocity. My rifle is a stainless Model 70.

I used it in the fall to take a smallish Muley buck, and have done some initial load development...

Here's the "fly's" I've found:

1). I have "loose" primer pockets after two re-loads... in fact, I had several loose primer pockets after re-sizing once-fired factory brass. Does this point to pressures being too high, or is this a brass problem... I'm not sure. Certainly, this round is loaded at the straining-point by Olin.

2). My rifle feeds without a hitch if the rounds are fed rapidly from the magazine. If they're fed slowly, like you'd do if you had an un-loaded rifle while sneaking through the timber, then wanted to "quietly feed a round into the cahmber, the rounds Hang-up 90 % of the time... this PISSES ME OFF BIG TIME.

IMO, A working-rifle should feed smoothly regardless how fast or slow the rounds are fed into the chamber.

Guess I'm the Accuratereloading.com Guinea Pig!

Comments by WSM owners????

"I told you so's" not allowed... hah!

Brad

I, too, have a stainless classic in 300WSM.
I purchased the rifle along with 3 boxes of the 180 power-points. (I don't shoot moly!)
It shoots the factory stuff well, but I hunt with my handloads. Everything shoots good
(1 3/4 inch) to real good (1/2 inch). I have loaded this brass 5 times with no feeding problems and no loose primer pockets. Loads have been from mild to too hot. The brass still looks great and resizes easily. Very little stretch; trimmed one time. I have 100 new hulls on hand, but I'm going to see how longs these originals last.

Willie, have you tried to feed the rounds SLOWLY from the magazine?

Accuracy isn't, IMO, much of an issue with this round... I think it's one of those "inherantly accurate" rounds we always hear about. Heck, mine shoots 180 Barnes XLC's into well under an inch! To me, however, I think a working rifle should feed rounds flawlessly whether fed slow or fast... this isn't a varmint rifle.

Brad

Brad,
Winchester put in a strong magazine follower spring to keep the wide bodied WSM between the rails to keep the little fat guy from binding in the magazine box. When you feed rapidly the bolt is designed to catch the catridge and ram it home. When you go very slowly or attempt to manipulate the feeding of the round as you speak of, the spring pressure, rail and bolt cannot work together as designed. Winchester is aware of this issue and has told others to feed the rounds quickly and remove the rounds via the floorplate. Ha, Ha, Ha on that one while you are trying to be quiet.

I would bet your pressures are really up there if you have loose pockets after two reloadings. Back off now!! Drop powder 10% and try again with new brass. Do you have tooling to measure case expansion, if not I would invest some money.

quote:

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Originally posted by Brad:
Well, I hope to save others a potential problem...

I started a thread here several weeks back regarding the 300 WSM and my initial findings. My thoughts mainly centered around the rifle's accuracy and velocity. My rifle is a stainless Model 70.

I used it in the fall to take a smallish Muley buck, and have done some initial load development...

Here's the "fly's" I've found:

1). I have "loose" primer pockets after two re-loads... in fact, I had several loose primer pockets after re-sizing once-fired factory brass. Does this point to pressures being too high, or is this a brass problem... I'm not sure. Certainly, this round is loaded at the straining-point by Olin.

2). My rifle feeds without a hitch if the rounds are fed rapidly from the magazine. If they're fed slowly, like you'd do if you had an un-loaded rifle while sneaking through the timber, then wanted to "quietly feed a round into the cahmber, the rounds Hang-up 90 % of the time... this PISSES ME OFF BIG TIME.

IMO, A working-rifle should feed smoothly regardless how fast or slow the rounds are fed into the chamber.

Guess I'm the Accuratereloading.com Guinea Pig!

Comments by WSM owners????

"I told you so's" not allowed... hah!

Brad

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Brad,

Thanks for the info. Do you think the sharpness and width of the shoulder, coupled with the short length had anything to do with it?

Sounds like your thinking serious about a 30-06. I posted some recent load data in the reloading section. High performance but safe loads in my rifle. 2900 fps with 190 gr bullets. 26" barrel.

MM

My experience is limited to slightly over 300 rounds. My rifle was a blued M70fwt. It would misfeed the 2d round from the magazine every time...slow or fast. I sent it back and Winchester replaced the receiver. The thing now feeds wonderfully...slow or fast. No problems with primer pockets yet. Getting around 3000 fps with my Hornady 180 SSTs and some R22. Accuracy is superb.

Brad,I purchased a model 70 fwt in 300WSM based on your recomendation.Thus far my accuracy has been superb.My feeding is fine fast or slow but does have a slight hitch in the cycle when going slow.Another m.70 in 7mm08 did this and my local gunsmith tuned it up for $10.00.This isn`t as severe as that one though.All in all this is an easy rifle to make shoot well and I`m happy I bought it.

BRAD, I don't think you have a real problem with your rifle, but it sounds like that brass is something to recheck.

Now I guess some hunters would keep an empty chamber while hunting whitetale deer in Kansas, but with the Winchester 3 position safety I don't see one having to do that for fear of it going off during a possible fall in the wild.

I dread the thought of having to be in bear country in Montana and NOT having a round in the chamber already, that gives me the "Willies" just thinking about it, the difference in getting that gun up and firing a round off verses operating the bolt and chambering a round is much slower you know.

Thanks for the replies gentlemen...

I'm going to play with my rifle more. Overall, I think it's a very good, general purpose hunting round. The fit and finish on this stainless 70 is far and away the best of the ten or so I've owned. Also, I agree... I nearly always hunt with a round up the spout when by myself. If hunting with others, I never do. Too, I think there's some issues with the brass. I'm certain my handloads have been entirlely safe as they're right at the factory speeds... they eject fine, with no hang-ups. Micing the expansion ring shows similar pressures to the factroy stuff.

If I want the rifle to feed a bit more smoothly, I'll turn it over to Dave Gentry. He designed a round very similar to the WSM's some years back and had success making them feed... I'm sure he'll have some "trick" to make it feed smoother. I think, as far as I can tell, that the rounds hang-up a bit at the bottom of the chamber when they're fed slowly.

We'll see.

As to accuracy and velocity, like my friends above, I couldn't ask for more!

Brad

BTW, BuddyK9, I think that's a cop-out on USRAC's part... the bit about feeding quickly. Granted, it feeds 100% of the time when used in that manner. Still...

As to the magazine follower spring being something different, it isn't... it's the same one as other 70's.

Brad.one thing that I have run into in the past is a smaller diameter on certain primers,or a looser hole in the brass.I first noticed this with a custom m70 in 7mm mag.When i went to CCI primers versus my favorite win.wlrm the loose pockets went away, this was with new brass. Another thing I found that the Norma pockets were signifigantly tighter than Winchester, possibly better quality control? I have had very good luck in my WSM with h-4350 and hornady flat bases ,just wondering how the boattails may perform for accuracy for longer ranges.

im gonna try to get a 300 SA UM when me local gun store gets them in. i hope it dont do like that 70 does bc a quiet reload when goin into the woods is very important.

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Hunt Smart, Hunt Safe

[This message has been edited by 700Nitro (edited 03-31-2002).]

Chris, H4350 has, so far, given me the best results too. I "hear" you about the primer pockets... a lot of handloaders take as gospel certain "myths/ideas" about higher pressure... all of the "normal" stuff needs to be considered, i.e., primer appearance and fit, extractor marks, extraction ease, etc... no one thing necesarily means higher pressure. Conversely, neither does the absence of any of those signs in the negative mean there is accpetable pressures. I still think a good chronograph is one of the best tools for safe handloading.

I'm glad your WSM is working out for you. I'm not going to abandon mine, just work with it more... it shoots too well with decent velocity to let go of! Still, if/when the 338 WSM hits the street, mine may go to Pac-Nor for a change!

Brad

[This message has been edited by Brad (edited 03-31-2002).]

Brad, one question, slightly different note. Didn't you say that you bedded your rifle? My buddy just bought a Winchester .300 WSM 70 Stainless/synthetic. His has a yellowish/clear bedding type epoxy on the lug. Was or is this standard? He just got the rifle a week or so ago. I don't know how long it's been on a shelf, it was flown in from Chester's in Long Island, NY. We haven't shot his rifle yet, so I can't help you compare.

Jesse,
The "bedding" that you refer to is hot glue from a hot glue gun. It is factory and was written up in Rifle magazine.
Todd

Brad, I have my neighbors 300WSM blued M70 w/ the laminated stock on my bench right now. I am working up loads for his rifle. I am not going to load for him, only find a load that works for him to start with. Basicly he doesnt have time to develope the load, not to mention that I wanted to play with his toy.
His is a nightmare to feed as well. It scratches the hell out of the brass. He wishes to shoot 130 grain Branes XLCs...therefore I have been loading and shooting it alot...alot more than should be neccesary. but I have had no trouble with primer pockets and am getting virtually no stretching. I'm about to give up on the Barnes and load some 150 grain SSTs.
Good luck

Brad, checked mine today. It works fine slow or fast, never really paid any attention to it before.

Dave, try IMR 4064 with the Barnes 130XLC. I use 66gr, but don't start there.

Brad,
Just a couple of comments on your 'fly's' - I have a F/WT WSM and like you have found it to be great to shoot and very accurate (after the trigger was de-lawyered). It feeds really well, fast or slow but if I push in the 180gr PP factory rounds in too quick the points deform on the feed ramp. This is not a problem with my reloads though as I am using Ballistic Tips and Woodleigh PP's.

The brass is another thing altogether - I bought 100 cases, trimmed, f/l sized etc - all the things you do with new brass and then seated WLR primers with an RCBS hand primer. At least 40 of the primers seated so loosely that IF the cases had been fired I would have been backing off the load. After using the cases twice each, I haven't really noticed any great difference in primer seating so I would suggest that the problem is with the primer pockets in the Winchester brass, rather than in your reloads. I haven't loaded to the stage of hard extraction, just to factory velocities with AR2209 which is H4350. Also haven't experienced any leakage around the primers either, so I will just keep on with the sloppy pockets until I get some sign that things aren't working right.
Greg

Brad

With 200 new brass from Huntington and primed with WLRM, brass colored primers, about one in five felt loose before firing. After all had been fired once I reprimed with WLRM primers, these ones are a different lot and are silver, all pockets felt good and tight. I'm on my fifth reload with 50 of these brass and all is well. My Browning Composite Stalker feeds perfect fast or slow.

...Peter

Again, thanks for the replies gents...

Jesse, Yes I replaced the "hot-glue" that USRAC jokingly calls "beddng"... free-floated the barrel and replaced that junk with good epoxy.

I just hung up with our local smith, Dave Gentry, and he thinks I need a small radius at the beginning of the chamber to facilitate chambering... I may just have him do it as opposed to sending it to a "warranty station" for an unknown period of time with questionable results... maybe I'll send USRAC the bill!!!

Dave designed a whole series of "short-fat" rounds some years back based on the 404 Jeff case... at the time they didn't catch-on... guess things have changed!

Brad