quote:

Ahh wolves, nothing stirs up controversy like they do. I really don’t have a dog in this fight, but P Dog, nowhere in history has man and wolf lived close together for any length of time. This is a fact. It is indisputable.

It is neither a fact nor indisputable nor true.

All domestic dogs evolved from wolves. That is a fact.

Dogs evolved from wolves under the guidance of humans. That is a fact

Wolves did not spontaneously erupt into hundreds of different breeds of dog, despite the necessity of the genome having all the various traits we see today. That is a fact.

All of the traits we see in all the various dog breeds today came from wolf DNA. That is a fact.

It took an extended period of time for that many recessive traits to be isolated and reproducible. That is a fact

There was considerable breeding of wolves by humans to bring out those recessive genes. That is a fact

Here in Minnesota The wild pack closest to me lives inside of 40 miles from a several million person metropolitan area. That is a fact

The area from Duluth-Superior Down to St Croix Falls contains a lot of wolves and has close to a couple hundred thousand human residents. That is a fact

Uncle! I give, centuries of man and wolf interaction is refuted by wolves in Wisconsin.

quote:

Originally posted by tomahawker:
Uncle! I give, centuries of man and wolf interaction is refuted by wolves in Wisconsin.

Well wolves were never totally protected until the last few decades.

That is the difference you are failing to recognize.

https://www.fws.gov/press-rele...ay-wolf-experimental


PRESS RELEASE

USFWS releases final environmental impact statement & draft decision to designate a gray wolf experimental population in Colorado

Responding to a statewide voter-led initiative, the state intends to reintroduce the species in a portion of its historical range

Sep 15, 2023
Media Contacts
Joe Szuszwalak

DENVER — Following the November 2020 passage of a statewide ballot initiative to reintroduce wolves in Colorado, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is announcing the availability of the final environmental impact statement and draft record of decision to establish an experimental population of gray wolves in Colorado under section 10(j) of the Endangered Species Act. Once finalized, this action will provide management flexibility in support of Colorado’s voter-mandated gray wolf reintroduction program.


Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission intends to reintroduce the gray wolf in a portion of the species’ historical range in Colorado by Dec. 31, 2023. CPW requested the designation of an experimental population under section 10(j) of the ESA to provide the state with increased flexibility to manage wolves when they are reintroduced in Colorado. CPW completed and published a Final Wolf Restoration and Management Plan for reintroducing the species. The state management plan provides for differing management tools based on achieving recovery targets. As the state achieves these recovery targets, tools available to the public under state laws and regulations may be more restrictive than what is allowable under the Service’s proposed federal rule.

Today’s announcement is the result of extensive coordination and outreach among many partners in Colorado at the local, state, federal, and Tribal levels. The Service also conducted public information meetings during the scoping process and published a draft 10(j) rule and draft EIS for public comment. The Service reviewed more than 20,000 comments as part of this public participation effort. The FEIS and draft ROD reflect the input received throughout the scoping and public comment process, as well as feedback from cooperating agencies and Tribes. The final versions of these documents primarily clarified language and definitions.

The FEIS and draft ROD were produced in compliance with the National Environmental Policy Act. The Service will implement proposed “alternative 1” from the scoping and draft process; this alternative proposes approval of a 10(j) experimental population designation. A 10(j) experimental population rule will allow the Service to provide designated management flexibility to the state for reintroduced gray wolves in Colorado. This management flexibility can help ensure co-existence between wolves and affected landowners contributing to the conservation of the species while reducing the potential impacts of reintroduction to stakeholders.

Learn more about 10(j) rules and experimental populations on our website.

The Service will issue a final ROD and 10(j) experimental population designation no sooner than 30 days after this announcement is published in the Federal Register. A 30-day notice period is required between the publication of the draft ROD and final ROD.

Additional information, background, and frequently asked questions about the experimental population designation can be found at https://www.fws.gov/coloradowolf. More information from CPW regarding their reintroduction of gray wolves can be found at https://cpw.state.co.us/learn/...Wolf-Management.aspx.

quote:

A 10(j) experimental population rule will allow the Service to provide designated management flexibility to the state for reintroduced gray wolves in Colorado. This management flexibility can help ensure co-existence between wolves and affected landowners contributing to the conservation of the species while reducing the potential impacts of reintroduction to stakeholders.

100% BS. Good luck.

tomahawk: "I'm in Ohio". I shall defer to your vast experience with living with wolves. I will ignore the experience of those of us cursed with having to coexist with carnivores that have far exceeded the agreed upon population required for delisting but the courts have refused to enforce. So far in WI this year alone 23 dogs have been killed by wolves before the fall when the most dog kills happen. Regarding livestock kills make sure you get your claims in early. Once the budget runs out the federal inspectors rule that no wolf kills have occurred. But you know all that due to your vast wolf experience gained by living in Ohio.

https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/topi...ifeHabitat/wolf/maps
Those of you not blessed with the joys of living in the natural wilderness surrounded by our furry friends the wolf check out the wolf depredation reports by year since 2018

As usual, the stupid runs deep. Either no one learns from what happens elsewhere or there really is a nefarious plan worthy of the "conspiracy theorists". There are many who believe that the wolf re-introductions are being done in order to reduce the prey species that are extremely popular with hunters...uhmmm....like elk and moose.

So regardless of what the crazier people among us think, the wolves will quickly increase in numbers and hammer the crap out of the elk herds. Perhaps many people will not have a problem with it, but what does raise my eyebrows, is the complete lack of concern that is being shown towards the rather small moose population in Colorado. I would be VERY concerned about what the wolves will do to the state moose herd over time.

They have a significant affect on moose populations up here in the north, and those are moose that have been dealing with wolves since the mega fauna wandered around our continent. Colorado may find that they will have unintended negative consequences from the planned re-introduction.

https://www.fws.gov/press-rele...-population-colorado


PRESS RELEASE

USFWS finalizes designation of gray wolf experimental population in Colorado
Nov 7, 2023
Media Contacts
Joe Szuszwalak

DENVER — In support of a statewide voter-led initiative passed in November 2020, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has finalized the designation of an experimental population of gray wolves (Canis lupus) in Colorado under section 10(j) of the Endangered Species Act. This action provides management flexibility in support of the state of Colorado’s voter-mandated gray wolf reintroduction program.

The final 10(j) rule and final Record of Decision are available today in the Reading Room and on the project webpage. The 10(j) rule becomes effective on December 8, 2023, 30 days after publication in the Federal Register.


The Colorado Parks and Wildlife Commission intends to reintroduce the gray wolf in a portion of the species' historical range in Colorado by December 31, 2023. Colorado Parks and Wildlife requested the designation of an experimental population under section 10(j) of the ESA to provide the state with increased flexibility to manage wolves once reintroduced in Colorado. CPW completed and published a Final Wolf Restoration and Management Plan for reintroducing the species. The state management plan provides for differing management tools based on achieving recovery targets. As the state achieves these recovery targets, tools available to the public under state laws and regulations may be more restrictive than what is allowable under the Service’s federal rule.

Today's announcement follows extensive coordination and outreach among many partners in Colorado at the local, state, federal, and Tribal levels. On September 15, 2023, the Service previously announced the draft ROD and Final Environmental Impact Statement. The final ROD concludes that the Service will implement proposed “alternative 1” from the scoping and draft process to finalize a 10(j) experimental population designation.

This final Service experimental population rule designates management flexibility to the state for reintroduced gray wolves in Colorado. This management flexibility can help to address potential conflicts between wolves and humans, and wolves and domestic animals while contributing to the conservation of the species. Learn more about 10(j) rules and experimental populations online.

Additional information, documents, and frequently asked questions about the experimental population designation can be found at https://www.fws.gov/coloradowolf. More information from CPW regarding their reintroduction of gray wolves can be found at https://cpw.state.co.us/learn/...Wolf-Management.aspx.

We need to reintroduce grizzlies in Colorado to keep the wolve numbers down!

Can’t wait for the wolves to migrate to Estes Park and then into Denver. A statewide vote approval is really misleading. The vote was close with majority support from Denver and Boulder.

Ken

Me too. I think grizzly reintroduction should start in Estes Park

quote:

Colorado may find that they will have unintended negative consequences from the planned re-introduction

This may force a choice between wolves or moose. Of course knowing Colorado they will likely just eliminate moose hunting altogether for the greater good.

"knowing Colorado they will likely just eliminate moose hunting altogether for the greater good"
Minnesota had a moose season prior to the wolf population explosion but not now. Gee I wonder if there is a correlation?

When I lived in Montana we called Colorado "the Massachusets of the Rockies" Still there's lots worse places to live

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
When I lived in Montana we called Colorado "the Massachusets of the Rockies" Still there's lots worse places to live

The real Massachusetts for sure.

"Wolf advocates for months have been gathering signatures at Colorado Front Range recreation centers, zoos, farmers markets and festivals, relying on paid campaigners and 310 volunteers. They have raised more than $1 million and are preparing to accelerate their efforts, said Rob Edward, president of the Rocky Mountain Wolf Action Fund.

“We need wolves to restore the balance of nature in western Colorado,” Edward said."

So some folks on the Front Range (east of the Rockies) want to re-introduee wolves on the WEST side of the Rockies. Hmm.

The wolves introduced in Montana and Idaho have now spread into Washington, Oregon and even northern California. All they really had to do was wait a few years and they would have wolves - and without all the political angst.

This is all part of the culture wars as I see it.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:


The real Massachusetts for sure.

In a place I used to live they were called 'Massholes'.

Idaho has a season on wolves, came about because they hit our elk and deer and they also were destroying our Lion families, and bear cubs. None hunters can't separate wolves from puppies. OK we have wolves and that's not changing, but proper management works if you keep the lib politians out of the situation. We had one county that went lib, Blaine county and Hollywood..

I think they should track the areas where the largest number of petition signers live. Release the wolves in the areas of high concentration of signers.

A couple of the pet woofs went to Wyoming and were shot. Colorado is crying. A publication called wyofile has some articles on it.

They'll get more