Primarily ag oriented but the hunting implications are dire also. Having been raised in the cattle business I can tell you the devastation has just begun. Pints a little different picture than the NatGeo film about all of the great things wolves have done for Yellowstone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...whhvHTWClTmzvppVTWf8

As a 41 year Montana resident just north of Yellowstone NP, the only thing positive that I've seen done to Yellowstone because of the wolves is the willows along the creek banks in the north portion of the Park have grown about a 8' higher.

Prior to the wolf introductions in the late '90s the healthy moose and elk populations in northern Yellowstone kept the willows down to about knee high. Now with most of the moose in this area decimated, and the Northern Yellowstone elk herd down by 15,000 or more animals, the willows have grown to 8-10' heights.

The other noticeable change was because of the large number of elk that used to be in the upper Gallatin River area from the Park Boundary near Teepee Creek south to Specimen Creek, the Park constructed an elaborate laser activated warning system along Highway 191. This flashed lights when elk were on the highway.

With very few elk in that area now, the Park took down that warning system.

That's a pretty sad report, Buffy. I only see wolves as negatives in the overall scheme of things. Your observations prove it.

I get wolves in game pic most every day and see their tracks.

They are not good neighbors to have

The idiots in Fed wildlife, most raised in cities or just dumb didn't do the math, Think about it, a female wolf has 3 litters of 5 to 8 every 18 or so months, Elk and deer have 1 or twins once a year, give that scenario a few years and take a count..

Ray, FYI, The dominant female of the pack gets bred once a year, usually in mid to late Feb. giving birth to her litter in late April early May.

Well that may be but I was told by a BLM biologist that figured 3 litters every 18 to 24 month, depending on range conditions and That's close enough to your count as far as im concerned, but even with your count and I don't actually disagree with it, the math is still the same as an elk cow will have have one or two and wolves have litters of 5 to 8 sometimes more and most wolf pups survive. do the math.

How did elk and deer survived with wolves last million years?
Common guys, wolves been here already for couple of decades full bore and there is plenty of deer and elk...hell, Montana gives out in most units two elk tags in comparison to “ before wolf years “
I think we hunters at times can be bunch of gloom and doom old women

Milan, on that topic. Most folks have NO idea how many wolves roamed Montana "back in the day". Here is a FANTASTIC article on MT's historic wolf control efforts and the bounty program as well as an excellent podcast from a second historian who writes for Montana magazine.

An excerpt....

"Montana's first bounty law, passed in 1883, paid $1 for every pelt. Within the first year, 5,450 wolf hides were collected.
Soon, a cottage industry of "wolfers" cropped up. Between 1870 and 1877, they killed more than 55,000 wolves a year, according to a 1986 article in Montana Magazine by Dave Walter, reference librarian at the Montana Historical Society.

Bounties fluctuated over the years, reaching a high of $15 in 1911.
Between 1883 and 1918, Montana paid $342,764 in bounties for 80,730 wolves,".

"Also an additional 34,000 NON BOUNTY wolf hides were shipped by major fur trade companies in just 1870-71."

FYI Recent modern day harvest numbers are about 200 per year total between hunting and trapping!


https://billingsgazette.com/ne...eb-61f559fe42ba.html

https://www.mtpr.org/post/hist...s-montana-bloody-one

I still will defend large predators as I do believe they have their place here
I don’t make any excuses

quote:

Originally posted by boarkiller:
I still will defend large predators as I do believe they have their place here
I don’t make any excuses

I agree, however they MUST be managed, by STATE Fish and Game biologists, NOT the courts or the Feds.

And that there I cannot argue.
Love to hunt wolves

quote:

Originally posted by JCS271:
...Between 1870 and 1877, they killed more than 55,000 wolves a year, according to a 1986 article in Montana Magazine by Dave Walter, reference librarian at the Montana Historical Society.

...Between 1883 and 1918, Montana paid $342,764 in bounties for 80,730 wolves,".

I believe that it should read "55,000 wolves" and not "55,000 wolves a year", as the math doesn't jive with the other numbers, but it does make for a juicier article for those that aren't paying attention.


I think it is also relevant to the story how many buffalo and other large game roamed the area back in those days. For example, one source quotes for 1872 "During this year and the next two, an average of 5,000 bison were killed each day, every day of the year, as ten thousand hunters poured onto the plains." That gives an idea of how much food was available to the wolves.

I'm all for managing the wolves but blame the men that brought them back to their current numbers, not a wild animal doing what it naturally does.

Yes, I also wondered about that because it did not make any sense to me either. Doing a little internet search I turned up another source that said during that time period, the total Nationwide Harvest by federal paid bounty hunters was approximately 55,000 per year.

I recall reading an article a few years ago concerning after the reintroduction of wolves into the Dakota territory. There was a town meeting with the local cowmen about how to combat the menace. Seems there was also a Greenpeace kinda advocate there whose solution was that they would fly helos, tranquilize, + sterilize the wolves before re-releasing into the wild. One old rancher stood up + said: "Son, they're not trying to fuck our cattle."

quote:

Originally posted by erict:

quote:

Originally posted by JCS271:
...Between 1870 and 1877, they killed more than 55,000 wolves a year, according to a 1986 article in Montana Magazine by Dave Walter, reference librarian at the Montana Historical Society.

...Between 1883 and 1918, Montana paid $342,764 in bounties for 80,730 wolves,".

I believe that it should read "55,000 wolves" and not "55,000 wolves a year", as the math doesn't jive with the other numbers, but it does make for a juicier article for those that aren't paying attention.


I think it is also relevant to the story how many buffalo and other large game roamed the area back in those days. For example, one source quotes for 1872 "During this year and the next two, an average of 5,000 bison were killed each day, every day of the year, as ten thousand hunters poured onto the plains." That gives an idea of how much food was available to the wolves.

I'm all for managing the wolves but blame the men that brought them back to their current numbers, not a wild animal doing what it naturally does.

Match the years with the numbers. The 55,000 per year was supposedly BEFORE the bounties were instituted in 1883. But I agree that it sounds a bit over the top. Maybe 5,500 would be more accurate. Or maybe 55,000 from 1870 to 1877.