hi
i tried a couple of boxes slugs of different brand and found that penetration was verey poor even compared with a rather mild 3030. in my test(shooting at dry telephon catalog at 30 yds) 3030 loaded with 135 gr sierra ( it was all i had that day)penetrated nearly twice as much as my 12 gauge slugs from S&B brenneke type. many hunting authorities advising to use 12 g slugs for bear protection!!. i was totaly disapointed with slugs penetration ability.strangly 410 slugs from my m6 penetrated deeper than 12 gauge but was hardly deformed!!! if you have simmilar experience please tell me about it. i have witnessed many hogs dropping with 12 g slugs but had never tested thier penetration ability!
regards
danny

I've used slugs for years since that is all that is allowed in my state. I have yet to recover one from game!!! I think your penetration tests might be deceiving due to the large frontal area of a slug.They always pass through, rarely with any expansion.

bowhuntr

Danny, here are some stats:

12 ga. = 0.720" dia
1 oz. slug = 438 grains: SD = 0.12
1 1/8 oz. slug = 492 grains: SD = 0.13

A 150 gr .30-30 bullet has a SD = 0.225

A 40 gr .22 cal bullet has a SD = 0.11

Your .410 slug has a much high SD than a 12 gauge slug.

I'd never consider 12 gauge slugs as good bear medicine and I live, hunt and play in coastal brownie country. You want high SD for penetration. SD = 0.300+ for brownies.

On deer sized game, you will nearly always get pass through on broadside shots. It is advisable to pass on some of the more extreme quartering shots one would take with a rifle.

hi guys
thanks for inputs .i'll load my 3030 with 200 gr nosler for brownies it would be a better choice if i travel to alaska 3030 federal factory load nosler(170 gr) is great in my tests it penetrate more than others and retains 115 gr all the time .
regards
danny

I've taken a lot of deer with slugs because we are limited where I live. They are certainly effective for deer but their penetration performance doesn't come close to my 30/06. I always laugh when I see guys talking about a 12 ga. as a bear stopper. I think it is psycological comfort based on the diameter of the hole in the end of the barrel. That and too many TV shows where shotguns blow doors off and such.

Jeff

I Killed a 400 Lbs Black bear in 2000 while on the ground at 16 feet. Take my word slugs work well on bear at close ranges.

Urdubob

Sorry, I was referring to grizzlies or brownies. I would hunt a black bear with a slug if that was all I had. I would use a 30-30 or 44 mag too without worry. The point is that slugs come nowhere near the penetration ability of a good rifle bullet.

Jeff

There are so many variables concerning slug design and manufacture that I doubt there are any hard fast rules that will stand up. They make big holes for sure, but I've never had a forster style slug do a thru and thru on a hog regardless of gauge, and that would include .410, 20, 16, and 12. I've no experience with sabot slugs. I've not shot a hog with buckshot regardless of shot/pig size that did not have multiple shot penetrate completely. On the other hand, I've not had a hog even twitch after taking a slug. Bears? I'd choose shot before slugs.

On opening day (at7am)of deer season here in Wisconsin, I shot my 8 point buck with my old J.C.Higgins 12 ga. shooting Remington "Sluggers", 1oz hollow points. These shells are about 15 years old. My buck was 15 yds away when I hit him broadside, just behind the right shoulder. He shuddered but did not drop. He ran about 50 feet and then dropped like a wet rag. I recovered the slug from the opposite side of the deer between the ribs and the hide. It expanded beautifully to 1 1/8 diameter. It sure made a mess of his lungs. He was dead on his feet but it took him 50 feet to figure it out. I live in a shotgun only county for deer. I will continue to use my old J.C. Higgings in the future. I like the results.

Danny,

I have two posts here in the big game forum about the deer I killed with slugs. I posted several photos in this one slugger, that may interest you.

Granted deer are not bears, but these were big deer, especially for females, I will be making a post later on containing some measurements I took to show that.

The point is, my Federal 12 ga slugs worked like a charm, much better than I ever thought too. My shotgun is a 2 3/4 inch plain old Remington 1100.

Both deer I shot were quartering (to me) shots and I had exits on both. On the second doe, the largest, the exit was through the large arm bone on the opposite shoulder.

Nice deer Ann, well done. No question that slugs are effective for deer. I live in the shotgun zone in Michigan and have killed a bunch with them with slugs of various manufacture. I have also taken a lot of game with a rifle and there is just no comparison in reliability of terminal performance between a good rifle bullet and a shotgun slug. On deer that is not an issue but for stopping an animal in the class of a grizzly or brown bear I want the penetration advantage provide by a strongly constructed bullet with a high SD.

Jeff

We seem to be having a discussian on 12 guage generic slugs. You can't compare even the Brenneke with the sabot and slug for penetration.

Try your tests with these and see.

Mike

Danny, dry books are apparently pretty hard on bullets and may not favour a soft 12 ga slug.
Also paper seems to produce erratic results even when shot with elephant gun solids, if the threads on the bigbore forum are anything to go by.

I think you'll find on soft media a 12 ga slug will tumble quite a fair way, and even outpenetrate a lot of fast smallbore softpoints on small game- as some of the replies above indicate.

Foster type slugs will punch out a 72 cal hole in light sheets of metal(1/8")etc like pecos said, filing cabinets etc. but fall a long way behind rifle solids or military FMJ for anything thicker.

Example I was shooting 7.62 x39mm chinese FMJ ammo into a tree to my front.
Tried a winchester super x slug and was rewarded with a buzzing past my head.
Won't do that again.

Karl.

Ballistic Research developed the sabot slug for 12 guage to address the penetration problem of foster slugs. The fosters have very poor penetration. Thy work well on deer and black bear, but would prefer bullets over slugs any day.

Shot a doe three times with Remington sabot copper solids(flat out run between 50 and 150 yards)None of the slugs hit a vital organ or bone.She was found dead as a doornail 50 yards over the hill!!The first one apears to have gone through just behind the liver(lookt like she was shot with a softball with razzer blades)The last one went in the back ham and penitrated 12" of working mussel,found it under the skin in front of ham.
They did a good job on this deer and I would use them on black bear but if a deer can go 150yards it would apear that they would be iffy on a big bear But the yardage would likely be shorter and shot placement a little better?