Kudu:

I can assure you that I am no anti-hunting liberal.

I agree hunting is way too competitive. Couldn't agree more with you on that one. Why do these kinds of operations even exist? Because some hunters have huge egos and have to have a huge bull on the wall. The ego part has nothing to do with being a macho man, only to put a big elk on the wall. I doubt there is enough business of the type described by XP (kids hunt) to keep the operation going.

If I drove up and saw an elk standing there would I shoot it? Hell, I have. But the difference here is that it was unexpected and the outcome uncertain. If you drove up to that game farm in question and saw a big one, would you whack it? Of course, you could take your time - he isn't going anywhere.

At the end of the day, this activity is legal. So what? So is slaughtering livestock (don't worry kudu, I eat meat). But this particular hunt, the way it is described (ear tags, etc.) is clearly not a fair chase hunt. There is a reason why a bull taken on such a hunt would not qualify for a B&C entry.

I actually have no issue with high fenced hunting, the way it is done in Texas when there is plenty of land in which the animals can escape. But this particular "hunt" does not seem to come close to that.

If this is a meat only hunt, why the focus on the antlers? This is designed to be a quick easy way to put a huge bull on the wall. It is not much different from going to ebay and just buying an elk mount.

Thats the way anti-hunters and liberal democrats think and act, Nebraska.



I have owned a firearm since I was 8 and hunted since I was 11. I am 46, I almost get turned off from hunters and hunting any more because there is a perception that hunting is a macho act and you have to prove your man hood and be one up in the next hunter.



Hunters a very competitve, and even more individualistic. I always believed it is from the days when hunting was life or death and a means of survival. Fitist survive, Scenario!



I guess that is why so many hunters think only there way of hunting is true hunting, the archers deplore firearms, handgunners think thier way is best, rifle hunters detest archers, stand hunters have thier ways, stalkers, spot and stalk, hounds, drives, baiting, enclosed fences,black powder, everyone has thier opinion and beliefs. Hunting is hunting and I try and do them all! Not to prove my man hood but to enjoy, and if I am succesful then thats iceing on the cake.



I don't have to slog the mountains and swamps, run through the woods like an Army Ranger, If I drive to my favorite elk spot and a nice bull is standing 200 yds of the trail head, I will shoot it and call it a hunt!

If shooting an animal behind a high fence was all that was left to me as a hunter I'd hang up my rifle forever and take up knitting which, I suspect, would be more challenging...

Okay Nebraska, I think I see your point. Reminds me of when I was a kid and the neighbor next door used to bring his guns out and clean them. He had an antelope mount in his house, and I just thought he had the world by the tail. The fire he fanned caused me to want to go to college, etc. Hunting has been very influential in my life. It is what caused me to start my own business as well; I don't need a big house or fancy cars, but I do need to go hunting, and it does take money.

The first time I went fishing as a kid, I went to a trout pond. It did create a lifelong love of fishing.

Jeff, from my POV there are several holes in your perspective.



First, you assume everyone is motivated as sincerely/purely as you are/were. It's just not that way. Most of the Jazbo's who hunt penned animals do so for bragging rights pure and simple. This seedy motivation and those "farmers" that cater to them diminish our sport greatly.



Second, not everything is equal and an elk ain't no farm raised catfish.



Third, you overlook the cost... $1000-$4,200! If someone can afford that they can certainly afford a trip to MT or CO, buy a tag and hunt public ground or pay a trespass fee to kill a cow elk on a late season hunt. Really!



Fourth, the young woman in question already has had opportunity to hunt and take game in an ethical manner (we hope)... what does paying someone to kill a penned animal have to do with hunting? What lesson does supporting something so vulgar teach this young hunter who has, possibly (hopefully) already been put on a good, ethical path.



Fifth, as has been said, because this is 100% guaranteed it's killing (ala slaughterhouse) not hunting. Hunting is called such because success is not guaranteed... more life lessons in the age of instant gratification.



Finally, hunting is under terrible pressure in America right now. It will only increase. Our public perception is vital to the survival of what, for me, is a way of life (not a sport). I'm essentially against anything that tarnishes our image, including the bulk of so-called hunting shows on Saturday morning TV and the attendant "Cabelaizing" of hunting. I make no apologies here. Honestly, I think the greedy SOB's among us are providing most of the rope for those that are ideologically opposed to us. Ahh, the information age... ain't it grand. Like sex, there are some things better left off TV in order to preserve their intimacy and sanctity.



I could go on but I think I've made most of my points



You're a friend who I value and respect but on this I can't see eye to eye!



All the best,



Brad

If we all worried about what some other limp dick thought of what we do individually,we'd never accomplish anything.



If you want to hunt high fence,go for it. Not all ranch hunts are equal.



The past five bulls I've killed have all fell within less then 1000 acres of each other,on national forest. The animals were there because there is little traffic,other then a single road in and out. The area is limited to foot travel over half the season and there aren't any fuckin' cattle in the area,so browse is real good. Essentially,the area is manipulated to sustain elk,just like a ranch. In fact the majority of elk ranches in the west are measured in the tens of thousands of acres,much larger then the public area I hunt.





Another worthy subject,is the amount of slob fucks that hunt public land. I can show you countless areas on public lands where some assholes set up on areas known to have elk migrate through and take racking shots out to 1000 yards wounding more then killing. The majority of elk killed on public lands,result from somebody stumbling onto elk and pushing them out into the open where 30 assholes in pickups open up on them. Just about as pathetic as shooting one in a pen.



I've witnessed first hand,what ranch elk hunts are like on large ranches and they are basically the same and better then public land. There isn't any bullshit of opening up on herds and wounding. There aren't any beer drinking assholes wandering around with firearms. There's also plenty of work if the person wants it and many ranches limit who can hunt based on physical ability,many won't road hunt. The type of guy who hunts a ranch also varys. Ranging from trustfund assholes all the way to the guy who has saved a lifetime to take an elk and wants better odds then stumbling around with some local dipshit that knows less about elk then he does.



Another factor,is for every 350-400 class bull thats shot,the average ranch kills 3 or 4 rag horns that will never amount to anything. These bulls are killed by normal every day guys that simply can't afford to hunt elk every year because of jobs and family. The prices of these hunts are considerably less then what I've paid for hunting public land on my own over the years.



The problem with ranches,is everybody pictures a whitetail enclosure of twenty acres. Ranches vary greatly.