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| <Talus> |
jayloar, let me be the first of many -- Leupold. No contest. Jeff | ||
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| <Jeff S> |
Ditto | ||
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| <Talus> |
jayloar, suggest you visit the African board and view the Leupold thread there. Mr. Atkinson's comments sum things nicely. Jeff | ||
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| <jayloar> |
Talus, Thanks for the tip on going to the African Big Game hunting forum. Tremendous testimonials to Leupolds customer service. If we make the decision to go with Leupold, is there enough difference between the Vari-X II and the Vari-X III to sway a person on a budget into choosing a Vari-X III? Thanks | ||
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| one of us |
Not in my opinion. The difference between a vari x11 and a vari x111 is a classic example of deminishing returns. Also, while the Leupold service dept is very good, I think I have had about as good of service from (old)weaver. I know they are not now warrenting the old weavers and of my new weavers, I haven't had any problems. I do know I have had a 2x7 steel scope weaver on my 7 mag for over 15 years with no probs. I am not knocking leupold scopes but there are others that are just as good. imho. | |||
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| one of us |
Let me give you a vote for the new Weaver Grand Slams.....I have one of the 6.5x20s and it is a great scope. I even mounted it on my ltwt .375 (with a muzzle brake) for some longer range load testing and after about 100 rounds (not a lot I know) but it is still ticking and tracking. | |||
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one of us |
I have Leupold, Burris and Weaver scopes all work well and have never had a problem with any of them. I only buy leupold at this point however. BigB | |||
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| <Mike M> |
For the difference in cost I'd opt for the Vari X II. I heard a rumor that they were discontuing the Vari X II. Don't know if it is true or not. | ||
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one of us |
quote: Well put. But now if I may take it out of context and count it as a vote for Leupold, even though your post was not ment that way, I will say my favorite scopes/$ are Leupolds. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Buffalobwana (edited 10-26-2001).] | |||
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| one of us |
Some of the scopes you mention besides Leupold may be fairly good scopes also, but a scope must do many things at once. Leupold is the only scope of the lot which has all of these qualities in one scope: 1. Is relatively compact and light weight. I don't believe any of the other scopes will meet #8 or #9, except Burris, and no others meet #10. Very few meet # 3 (a factor often overlooked, but critically important in quickly acquiring your target). | |||
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| <tasunkawitko> |
if you work for a living and have to watch your budget, recommend you take a look at sightron. ------------------ | ||
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| one of us |
I like the Leupold 11 as well as the 111 for hunting scopes... If I wanted a cheap scope, I'd buy a used Leupold, they will re-do it at no cost, you don't have to be the original owner... Leupold policy: anyhthing inside is fixed free of charge, anything outside there is a charge...however, I have had both done many times and never been charged for anything...the guarentee is on the scope,no matter how many times it has changed hands. I don't know any other brand that will do that, and live up to it. The only time I have ever been charged a red cent is when I sent scopes for a reticle change... I think I will just stick with them, and they are a US company. ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
The good news is that there are more manufacturers putting out better scopes than there have ever been. The bad news, if one can call it that, is this is forcing Leupold to restructure its product line. Until a couple of weeks ago, I would have said that the Weaver Grand Slam, their new high price scope, was the equal if not better than the Leupold Varix III, and the Weaver was priced equal to or cheaper than the Leupold II. However, Leupold has announced that they are discontinuing the VariX II line; therefore, prices have been reduced by many retailers. You can by a Leupold II right now for less than the high priced Weaver scope. These Leupold II's are real buys. I just bought one for Christmas. I also bought a Weaver Classic, which I have found is an excellent scope. The Classics are as bright as the Leupold II, and about half the price of the pre-reduction Leupold price. For an inexpensive scope, it is hard to beat the Weaver Classic. Right now, however, the Leupold II is the best buy out there in my opinion. Ku-dude | |||
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| <jayloar> |
Stonecreek, I think you hit on an important point with #3. Non critical eye relief. What I've seen when looking through the Leupold's vs. other brands is that some other brands are less forgiving about head placement. With the Leopold's your gun mount can be a little less than perfect and still get a good, full scope picture while with many other scopes you have to be lined up just perfectly to get a good, full scope picture. Is Leopold unique in this regard or are there other scope manufactures that allow for less than perfect gun mounts? | ||
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one of us |
quote: Last year I bought a Bausch & Lomb Elite 3200 3-9x40 for my .222 Rem. I�m not quite content with it as it tends to go milky when I got the sun in my back or when I sit in the light and aim into the darkness. If it�s a common failure of this model or just failure on my scope, I don�t know. I think I will send it to manufacturer for test. Among the mentioned scopes I would go with the Leupold, but if I could afford it, I would prefer one of the better european scopes. Fritz K. | |||
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one of us |
quote: 2 things: First, I'd have to say that Burris satisfies this list, in my opinion. And, in one respect, Leupold doesn't...#9. Burris actually uses American glass. Leupold does not. Second, if someone thinks that buying a Vari-XIII gives diminishing returns, then I guess things like click adjustments and true multi-coated lenses don't matter to you. The Vari-XII and it's friction adjustments is a throwback to the days of Herter's. Leupold has been pulling a fast one on customers for years with the Vari-XII, exploiting the loyalty of it's customers. If you'll notice, it's going away now for good. I wonder why? RSY | |||
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One of Us |
quote:
From the testimonials Ive read I dont think that youll find any Leupold owners here that feel their loyalty has been exploited. When you can crush one with a horse and get a new one back free of charge that statement seems like kind of a contradiction. [This message has been edited by Wstrnhuntr (edited 10-30-2001).] | |||
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| one of us |
Leupold is coming out with a line to replace the Vari-XII's which is supposed to retail in the same price range so I'm not worried about having a quality scope in the Vari-XII price range, I'm sure the new leupolds will be quality scopes. The vari-XII's are going down a bit in price, cabela's has the 3x9x40 for $179 in my latest catalog, excellent value. As for pulling a fast one of their customers, how is selling the highest quality scope available in the $200 price range pulling a fast one. The vari-XII has allowed thousands of hunters to put dependable scopes on their rifles that otherwise couldn't have made the jump to the $400 range where other makers start offering decent scopes. Also please explain how friction adjustments vs. click adjustments makes one bit of difference whatsoever? The Vari-XII's are multicoated but I don't care what they call it because they're very good optically and perfectly good for any hunting I'll do. | |||
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| one of us |
Don't get me wrong, I like Leupold scopes, as well. If you were to put a Burris Signature and a Leupold Vari-XIII in front of me and tell me to choose, I think I'd have to flip a coin. The best scope in the price range? Well, I think what we're seeing is the result of people realizing that it's not the Vari-XII. The Burris Fullfield, in my opinion (note the use of the word "opinion"), has been besting the Vari-XII for years. And now, with the advent of the Fullfield II's, it truly is "no contest," as someone said above. Here is a fact, though: If everything was cool and groovy with the Vari-XII in relation to today's market, they wouldn't be dropping them from the product line. It's that simple (and it's called "progress"). RSY | |||
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| <monyhunter> |
I will have to put my vote for the Weaver Grand Slam. I worked at a gun store part time and spent literally hours looking through all the scopes. To be quite honest, I am not impressed by the clarity and optics on the Veri XII. Especially when you add the friction adjustments (which suck big time). I also think that the veri XIII are way better. Much better glass by far. The Weaver Grand Slam however, for the same price as a veri X II is 5x better. I feel that for the $200-$300 range the weaver is the best by far. When you step up to $500+ the Veri X III wins. ------------------ | ||
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| one of us |
Burris is a quality scope, my problem is they are heavier and bulky, and lack the eye relief of the Leupold.... I have certainly been able to sight in my Vari-X11's, and I have been able to use them for years successfully on all manner of game.. I have a Vari-X111 or two around here and it doesn't seem to do much better on Buffalo, Deer, Elk or whatever than the Vari-X11's.... I think your overstating the case between the two from a practical hunting standpoint. ------------------ | |||
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| <jayloar> |
Well the decision has been made. I decided to go with used Leupold's based upon the testimonials of reliability and service. I'm getting a 3-9x40mm Vari-XII and a 3.5-10x40mm Vari-XIII for our two main hunting rifles. As a side note I have had 2 Bushnell Banner 2-8 compact scopes that looked great to start with and in short order went bad. I've got 2 Weaver V10 2-10x38 that both looked great to start with. One still does look great, the other looks good up to 6 power, after that it becomes difficult to focus the reticle on the target. Time to cut the cr..p and get something I depend on. | ||
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| <Frank> |
I wish american made scopes Had as good glass as german and austria but they don't. There is such a big differance in clarity and brightness that I don't think I can go back. Swaroski, and S&B 4-16 x 50 That is my best deer rig set up. | ||
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| one of us |
Frank, That is a subjective opinion. I bought two Schmidt and Bender 4-16x50s(a Varmint and a Long Range) last year and had to look hard to say they provided the same image as a new Vari-X III Long Range Target. Both scopes set on the same power mind you. I saw no magic in their lenses. Bought a Swarovski 6-24x50 before that and sent it back. The verdict, from my experience, is that all this talk of glass quality is hard to differentiate between a Vari-X III and whatever Swarovski or Schmidt and Bender I've compared them to. The S&B first focal plane reticles also left much to be desired for my purposes. The S&B No. 6 fine reticle was invisible under 8x and the "Long Range" holdover was not that much better. The S&Bs also had an anemic amount of W&E travel. I'm told the erector system is over built and rather than correcting the problem they went to the 34mm tube on the PM series to allow for Long Range W&E travel. FWIW, I was impressed by the light transmission and resolution of the Swarovski scope. The 1/6 MOA clicks and lack of side focus disuaded me though. I must say that from my perspective the high range variable S&B and Swarovski are behind the Leupold LTRs and further behind the Nightforce Scopes. Which seem to have little competition, imho, if you don't mind the weight. Another subjective opinion for what its worth. Regards, Matt. Btw, for a qualified opinion on "euro glass" you might take a look at the DEVA(German) tests in OPTICS FOR THE HUNTER by John Barsness. Abit dated as they are from 93', however, they seemed spot on regarding the S&Bs to my eye. [This message has been edited by Matt in Virginia (edited 11-08-2001).] | |||
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| <Delta Hunter> |
I've been a Leupold fan since the 70's. I currently own 3 Vari-X III's (2.5-8X36, 3.5-10X40 & 4.5-14X40). However, when Zeiss came out with their Conquest line earlier this year I bought one because it had some desirable features the Leupolds don't have. In particular I'm talking about the quick focus eye piece, finger adjustable windage and elevation, and etched glass reticle. Having used the Conquest now for several months on my .300 Weatherby, I can tell you, I like it much better than any Vari-X III I've ever owned. It's better in every respect I can think of. The 3-9X40 which costs $399 at BearBasin is a real bargain. | ||
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| one of us |
Delta Hunter, You know I've heard good things about the Conquest line. I've even been giving their side focus 4.5-14x44 abit of thought on a custom .25-06' that's in the developmental stage. I was hoping Leupold would come out with a side focus 1" tube, e-mailed them yesterday regarding the possibility. I love the side focus feature on the higher range variables but don't care for the 30mm tube and 50mm objective on a light "mountain" rifle. I must admit my only reason for hesitating on the zeiss is their warranty history. I've read the new warranty, however, the stories I've read over the years tend to make me hesitate. Time will tell and I hope they turn out to be as good in the long run as they appear now. Regards, Matt. [This message has been edited by Matt in Virginia (edited 11-08-2001).] | |||
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| <Delta Hunter> |
Matt, I'm fortunate I guess that I've never had to have any warranty work done on any scope. I hope that holds true for the Zeiss. I don't hunt in the rugged terrain and conditions that a lot of you guys do, however, so that's probably why my scopes have held up well. I've never dropped one that I can remember. I've been so impressed with the 3-9 Conquest that I plan on buying the 4.5-14 you talked about next. Like you, I tried out a Swarovski for a while. It was the 3-12X50. Yes, it had great glass, but I hated the first plane reticle, so I sold it. When Zeiss came out with the Conquest line I knew I had to try it because it had some of the same features I liked so much on the Swarovski, but it had a second plane reticle and a 1" tube, both of which I preferred. Plus, given Zeiss's reputation for quality glass, I knew I wouldn't be disappointed there. I find the image to be clearer, sharper and brighter than with any of my V-X III's. I think Zeiss did a great job with these. | ||
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