Check this !!

PRICING

Its called Buying a Rack. The way this is structured it takes away from what it is to hunt. They've gotten far too much press on Realtree Outdoors and now all this is about is paying for points.

20K for a WT...insane...

Do people actually pay $1250 for a one day, cull buck hunt? If so, I guess there IS one born every minute.
Can't you hunt DG in Africa cheaper than that?

Hello,
Hunted there in the late 80's and early 90's, had more money then, and found it to be absolutely first rate in all respects. Not that expensive then, but again, well worth the experience and the people and just general operation were first class and fine people to spend days hunting in Texas. The amount of game observed and variety was amazing and the management team there seem to really know what they are doing. Have their own on site game biologists, "experts," and never regretted going there.

quote:

Originally posted by TJ:
Do people actually pay $1250 for a one day, cull buck hunt? If so, I guess there IS one born every minute.
Can't you hunt DG in Africa cheaper than that?

TJ,
Yes, in fact, they do pay that amount and more. The $1250 does not include lodging or meals. That includes riding around in a truck rigged for shooting from the vehicle (not illegal in Texas when shooting from a non-paved road) and listening to a "guide" ask you is you want to upgrade for about $2500 for a little bigger buck. It is purely a drive by killing - no hunting involved. It is efficient and makes the King Ranch a lot of money.

I disagree with the post above as this is a not a first class hunting operation - put a first class killing operation.

You will kill whatever you are willing to pay for.

If you want the $20,000 buck, he is there and they can take you right to him. It is low fenced and hence the "trophy" is eligible for the Boone and Crockett award or whatever they call it.

I have hunted the King Ranch on three occasions as a guest of the lease holder. Yes, they lease portions of it for about $20 per acre depending on the area and what the ariel deer survey shows. The lessors are allowed a certain number of "trophy bucks" (5 or 6 yrs old and bigger than a 10- point and 150 inches) and may take a few management bucks ( 6 1/2 yrs and older, less than 8pts, less than 130 inches) and a lot of does. Each kill is photoed, measured and the jaw sent to the King Ranch biologists. If you violate the rules, your lease is cancelled.

In summary, you hunt from stands (hides for our British readers) and you bait the deer witha feeder. You dole out feed from behind you truck on the way to the stand and then around the stand. The feeders go off at pre-set times and the deer show up right on time. If a deer you can shoot arrives, good for you. If not, you take a lot of photo's.

Typically, if this is an entertainment hunt, then the trophy deer are located and followed to be able to allow a big shot, whom you are entertaining, to "hunt" his deer.

My last trip there was wild. I was taken to a stand to shoot pigs (there are plenty) but warned not to shoot "Ed". It seems "Ed" was a 160 inch, 10 point that hung around the area. They said that I would see Ed when the feeder went off. Sure enough, Ed showed up and I took a bunch of pics. The pigs showed up, Ed politely moved out of the way, I shot my pig and Ed retreated 100 yds to let me see the dead pig. I drug the pig to the road and went back to the stand. Ed came back to finish his meal.

I asked the "guides", what is the deal with Ed - they said he would be hanging on the wall of the CEO of a chemical company that was coming to hunt in a couple of weeks. They thought that was funny...

Yes, it is a zoo with all of the critters - but don't spend your money on this if you are hunter because...

--- it is not hunting....

Thats basically the same down here in South GA on the whitetail plantations...and the reason I had to let a B&C Buck walk two seasons ago when he paraded in front of me @ 50 yards for 8 and a half minutes. The prices here are roughly the same as the king ranch and mine would have cost me around $7500-$8000 at the time. I was culling does for the plantation that day and even went so far as to call the owner with my cell phone twice to see if I could get some of that 0%/60 month financing like some of the car folks do! He laughed and hung up...both times. He was kind enough to offer 18 months though (to his credit?). My wife later told me I had made a very wise decision in passing him up, as I have enough "stuffed animals" on the wall...and two kids in college. It still haunts me to this day though....I remember the full 8 1/2 minutes, viewing him through my 8X binocs @ 50 yds....damn what a sight...broadside, in the wide open. Would have been nice to get a bonifide B&C buck, fair chase as well...no dang fences.

quote:

Do people actually pay $1250 for a one day, cull buck hunt? If so, I guess there IS one born every minute.
Can't you hunt DG in Africa cheaper than that?

Yes they do and no you can't.

quote:

Originally posted by M16:

quote:

Do people actually pay $1250 for a one day, cull buck hunt? If so, I guess there IS one born every minute.
Can't you hunt DG in Africa cheaper than that?

Yes they do and no you can't.

And if you're pulling down a couple mil a year, 20K isn't even noticable. Most of those guys spend $1250 a night on lap dances when they're not shooting deer.

I just did a quick search on this forum. I found DG hunts offered for.....
10 day 1x1 $1295 day
14 day 1x1 $1000 day
7 day 1x1 $625 day
So, the answer is yes, I can hunt DG in Africa for less than $1250 day.
I know I can hunt PG in Namibia for $250 day and shoot nice animals every day.
It'll be a cold day in hell when I pay $1250 day for a white tail cull hunt. My Daddy might have raised a damn fool, but he doesn't live in Alaska!

quote:

Originally posted by M16:

quote:

Do people actually pay $1250 for a one day, cull buck hunt? If so, I guess there IS one born every minute.
Can't you hunt DG in Africa cheaper than that?

Yes they do and no you can't.

M16,

Seeing as you can hunt tuskless cow elephant in Zimbabwe for around $650 per day, (and there is little or no game more dangerous than a tuskless elephant cow), I would say that DG is very possible to do within a lower budget than $1250 per day.

As for the $1250 per day for a White Tail deer, to me, that just sounds outrageous... Not to mention the trophy fees I saw on that Kings Ranch website. Holy crap!

Hey Driver,

Have you forgotten that we're all waiting to hear who your friends hunted with in Zim???

In case it's slipped your mind:
Zimbabwe has great people.

quote:

I just did a quick search on this forum. I found DG hunts offered for.....
10 day 1x1 $1295 day
14 day 1x1 $1000 day
7 day 1x1 $625 day

Let's compare apples to apples. Are you saying you can go on a one day dangerous game hunt? I don't think so. And by the way $1295 is more than $1250 where I went to school. Is there a trophy fee on a dangerous game hunt? Looks like you left that part out. What about travel expenses and dip and pack and crate and ship and broker fees? Somehow we always leave those out.

quote:

I know I can hunt PG in Namibia for $250 day and shoot nice animals every day.

You said dangerous game not plains game. Trying to change the focus of the discussion?

quote:

My Daddy might have raised a damn fool, but he doesn't live in Alaska!

Then where does he live?

quote:

Seeing as you can hunt tuskless cow elephant in Zimbabwe for around $650 per day, (and there is little or no game more dangerous than a tuskless elephant cow), I would say that DG is very possible to do within a lower budget than $1250 per day.

As in my post above I thing there are a few more expenses than $650 a day involved wouldn't you admit?

quote:

As for the $1250 per day for a White Tail deer, to me, that just sounds outrageous... Not to mention the trophy fees I saw on that Kings Ranch website. Holy crap!

That is quite reasonalbe in my opinion. I wouldn't do one on my ranch at that price. If you can shoot a low fence Boone&Crockett for $20,000 that is an excellent price. It took me 25 years getting one doing it the hard way. And I spent a heck of a lot more than $20,000 doing it.

And lets not forget the minimum number of days involved on the dangerous game hunts which can be anything from around 12 to 21........so suddenly your $1250 a day turns into $15,000 to $30,000 plus trophy fees, VAT, area fees, transfers, etc. etc. It is not really relevant to the original question regarding the cull deer hunts.

When I see the prices for the King Ranch it makes me shake my head. Where I live in Canada we have big deer......average everyday mature buck is in the 140 to 160 area and B&C deer are taken around here every year. But, we have trouble getting US hunters at $2750 US for a 5 1/2 day hunt.

The difference now is that more and more hunters are willing to pay a rediculous fee for sure things.......private land, fenced/or at least totally controlled. Oh, and quick sure thing hunts are even better.

I have trouble getting guys to shell out $6500 on a moose hunt that is fly-in ($2700 per flight to get in and out of there included in the hunt operating costs), lodge facilities.........but they will go to a fenced elk farm I know of and shell out $6500 - $12,000 for a one day sure thing king size elk hunt.

All in all I am distressed at the way the hunting 'industry' is going and at the trend with hunters and what they want and are willing to pay for.

What do they say
"A fool and his money are soon departed"
or something like that.

Of course I guess if you have unlimited money why not.

How many would go on the same hunt for $50?........! Aaaah we have established what you are, let us negotiate price! Some use bait some dogs, some will shoot at running deer, some take THSs some use calls and spotlights to kill varmints and some take shots at outlandish ranges. If it is legal and ends in the quick death of the animal it is OK with me. I wouldn't nessicarily hunt some of those ways, but that's just me. As for charging high fees, remember, we have established.... capt david

This is for high rollers. There is an operation near here in Pa (for sale now) that had high rollers for clients i e the $10,000 to $20,000 whitetail shooters. I had a client take me there to look around and see the operation because he wanted to treat me to a $10,000 whitetail which I passed on. While there the owner was bragging on the accomodations ie meals etc. He told of one guest (will not call him a hunter) that flew in on his private jet landed drove to the farm and shot his 200" buck and didn't have time to stay for great dinner they would have in an hr or 2.

Hell, I wasn't even looking at the whitetail prices. $500 per day for hogs plus $150 per hog!

quote:

Originally posted by M16:

quote:

Seeing as you can hunt tuskless cow elephant in Zimbabwe for around $650 per day, (and there is little or no game more dangerous than a tuskless elephant cow), I would say that DG is very possible to do within a lower budget than $1250 per day.

As in my post above I thing there are a few more expenses than $650 a day involved wouldn't you admit?

quote:

As for the $1250 per day for a White Tail deer, to me, that just sounds outrageous... Not to mention the trophy fees I saw on that Kings Ranch website. Holy crap!

That is quite reasonalbe in my opinion. I wouldn't do one on my ranch at that price. If you can shoot a low fence Boone&Crockett for $20,000 that is an excellent price. It took me 25 years getting one doing it the hard way. And I spent a heck of a lot more than $20,000 doing it.

M16,

In my haste, I overlooked your mention of ONE DAY. So I would agree with you that more expenses are involved.

But as for $20.000 for a White Tail deer, I guess I am not informed enough on how expensive these animals are. If that's decent, or even "cheap", then I think I'll stick to tuskless elephant (trophies aren't a big deal to me, but rather the experiance).

Thanks for the info.

Captdavid........your comments are not really relevant as far as the costs go. I have been outfitting for way to long to go with that line.

Supply and demand factors into it of course.....example, stone sheep........say about $21,000 US +/-. I guided for them and am very familiar with it. Your average sheep hunt costs no more to outfit really than a mountain caribou hunt or mountain grizzly or mountain goat. It is supply (limited) and demand (lots of sheep hunters, who mostly are well heeled individuals.....I said, mostly!)

I have hunters that I have known for years that I have seen slowly slide away from totally fair chase hunts in wild areas to the pretty much guaranteed hunts on private land, some fenced, some not, but all controlled and in a lot of cases fed for antler growth and even genetically enhanced with super bucks.

Fenced elk, because it is a sure thing with bragging size antlers and they justify it because the fair chase elk hunts they went on in Wyoming or Montana didn't produce........lets see two elk hunts out west at $4000 a pop is $8000. "Hey, I can go to a fenced ranch and kill a 350 class bull for that much and be home in three days!" The short duration hunts only keep them away from the work place and the good life for a short period of time, cause in truth...........the number of guys out there that actually like to rought it a bit is decreasing.

Hunters are expecting more with regards to quality of accommodations and, thanks to the success rates on private land hunts, higher success rates..........even in totally uncontrolled wilderness areas.

Outfitters in remote areas are faced with much higher costs to build an equivalent structure than a ranch owner that lives off the interstate. The landowner can control his hunting pressure, feed, predators, etc. the wilderness area outfitter can't control any of that.......at least not legally and good outfitters are the ones that do things by the book.

The bottom line is that an outfitter operating on his ranch, all things being equal, spends way less to run a given hunt than a wilderness outfitter. The wilderness outfitter is at a distinct disadvantage in that he cannot control forest fires, drought, predators (wolves/bears), resident hunter pressure, other commercial operators (logging/mining/trekkers, etc), winter kill and a host of other things. Private landowners can control a bunch of these things and influence the outcome of all of them.

As a whole........ and yes there are some of you boys and girls that are exceptions so do not take this personally...........hunters are getting softer and less willing to put up with roughing it in the back country, while demanding more in hunter opportunity and trophy quality. (The number of hunters that talk in inches, SCI and B&C grossly outweigh the guys that talk of 'nice' or 'representative' animals.)

It does not bode well for the thousands of outfitters out there that are running the lower end hunts (I am refering to prices that working class guys can afford). Over the long haul we will be seeing many of them going out of business as they are all fighting for a smaller and smaller piece of the pie.

Skyline,
Isn't the issue the cost of providing the experience? The outfitter does not own the land and has only an investment in the horses, tents and equipment. Plus, he works a 6 week hunting season usually. It is nearly impossible to live off outfitting unless you do fishing and dude camps in the spring/summer. You are hunting public land with not investment in it other than to take the animals off. You can move on if an area is depleted. However, you have to compete with the public.

The game rancher owns the land (a huge investment) and usually builds permanent housing, feeds the critters and has to pay the land taxes and a host of other expenses. The way to maximize income is to have a lot of animals or supplement with cattle. If it is fenced, then the fencing is paid for as well.
This provides income all year long as the hunting seasons are frequently longer than on public land.

The "in-between" place to hunt is the King Ranch and the few that are like it. The King Ranch is low fenced, but huge - 700,000 acres in size and is heavily managed for deer and quail. There are no accomodations provided, no food provided. This is by far the exception rather than the rule due to it's size.

At the end of the day, the decision is made by the customer - not the outfitter/game rancher. The customer will go where he gets what he wants - be it horns or an experience or both..

quote:

Originally posted by Skyline:

When I see the prices for the King Ranch it makes me shake my head. Where I live in Canada we have big deer......average everyday mature buck is in the 140 to 160 area and B&C deer are taken around here every year. But, we have trouble getting US hunters at $2750 US for a 5 1/2 day hunt.

Does the $2750 account for license, meals and board? I have alwyas hunted on my own property or friends property. Two years ago I decided to go on a week long muzzle loader hunt in Kansas with a friend who had already booked a trip with a rancher he had experience with. This ranch produced some big brute bucks but nothing famous. The ranch is known more for pheasant and quail. I don't think the rancher really cares two cents about deer, but he's got some monsters.

Anyway, other than airfare it cost us $4000 for the entire week and I've gone the last two years. We had the run of the entire ranch ourselves (about 20,000 acres), could freely hunt however we wanted. He's got permanent stands already set up in some good spots, but he has ground blinds and movable tripods as well. The house we stay in is comfortable. The rancher's wife cooks us home cooked meals that are fabulous, and they give us use of their 4 wheelers and trucks as we see fit, maps, etc. etc. Licenses are also included in the fee.

We get one buck apiece, and unless you just don't shoot until you see Booner, you'll nab a fine animal. My friend shot a 160 class 10 point two years ago. He got a 140 class last year. I've gotten a couple in the 140's but have glassed 170 class bucks while scouting.

Overall I am really satisfied with the trip and the experience. But I am new to paying for hunts. Like I said, I typically hunt my own land or friends land here in GA. So is this a rip off? It comes out to less than $580 a day if you hunted the entire week which is less than some quoted prices here in GA. But often, I don't hunt the entire week, I shot last year on the 3rd day and the year before on the 5th. I still paid the entire $4K though.

IMO if someone pays $20,000 for a whitetail they have way too much money to know what to do with. They should have just given it to me or paid for one of my hunting trips .

But as all ways I am just dreaming out loud.

Dogcat you miss the point and obviously do not know very much about outfitting or understand all the costs involved in setting up in a remote area, or the costs of outfitting period. You may not 'own' the land but you have to get a govenment lease in most areas, then there are land and infrastructure taxes to be paid on your lease, just as if you own it. In areas I have outfitted you had to pay taxes on your main lodge or camp and every satellite camp (tent camp) as well. In most provinces of Canada you have to buy your quota or allocations from an existing outfitter to get into the business and that can be from $50,000 to a million plus. Then there are game allocation fees every year, outfitter licences, grazing fees for horses,the gear to operate and numerous meetings to make sure that the logging companies, resident hunters, first nations people, mining companies and fish and wildlife branch don't do something that ruins your business.

It is not just a free for all where anyone can get into the business and there are unlimited tags. The non-resident quota in most places is a finite number (constantly being attacked by resident hunters who want there to be fewer for non-residents) and to get into outfitting you need to purchase the rights to 'X' number of tags from someone who is changing businesses or retiring.

If I build a beautiful lodge in the middle of no where it will cost me 3 to 4 times the price of building it at home. Everything has to be flown in or taken in on a winter road by cat. Even fuel right now for boats, quads, generators is about $8.00 a gallon by the time it gets to where it needs to go, that is just over double what it costs me to get it delivered to my ranch. Oh yes and lets not forget several hundred thousand in boats, motors, atv's.......the list goes on. Maybe even a floatplane.

Yep, I have a lot tied up in my ranch that provides other income from livestock. But, it is also my home. The wilderness outfitting business is, in most cases, not your permanent home and its only purpose is as a wilderness tourism business. Contrary to popular belief, hunting and fishing are still the bread and butter with most outfitting businesses. Eco-tourism, ie. photographers and bird watchers, is something that every one talks about but few make any money at at.

I realize there are places where you can just go in and buy a licence and say "I am an outfitter", but thankfully they are few.

And by the way, even to run back country wilderness horseback hunts.........on government land..........well I still have to have the bloody ranch at home anyways to keep my string of 30/40/60 head of horses and grow the hay to feed them the other 8 months of the year that they are just a liability and not an asset. Oh and lets not forget, a big gooseneck trailer to haul them, several pickups, saddles, pack saddles, etc, etc.

Ranchers and farmers do not own 50 or 60 head of horses for fun, unless they are breeding them (and there is no money in that these days anyways). If they weren't outfitting they would just have a handful of good saddle horses for ranch work.

Skyline,

Do you have a website?

bulldog563..........yes I do. I do not have it on here as I am on this forum out of interest, not to promote any commercial venture of mine. I will PM you.

Skyline, how does hunting in Canada compare to the hunt I described above and how does the money compare?

I suspect that the King Ranch, like me got there new property tax bills in. I own some acerage in Connecticut, my bill just about doubled. Ranchers these days, like aways are looking for a way to just keep the ranch as a ranch, They could sell off for Condo's I suppose, maybe they what to put away some money so the next generation will not have to sell off a bunch to pay the death taxes. As for prices they are charging, Yea those 200 + point deer go for a lot I guess, but on the other what do you suppose That Canadian with the Record is getting for indorsments and just showing up on the Show curcuit? I bet its helping him keep his farm, for the next generation.

Skyjacker.......sorry about that, didn't mean to ignore your previous post.

First off let me say that I know Kansas produces some good deer. In your situation it sounds like a pretty good set up.

There is a difference in that you have to be guided in most Canadian provinces when you are a non-resident. But, to be fair, in many instances that just means a guy takes you out to your blind and picks you up. If you shoot a buck he comes back and gets the deer and dresses/capes, etc.

In other situations the guide may be there actively calling or rattling for you. We have dedicated muzzleloader seasons in Manitoba and many of the provinces do not have that.

Price wise.......rifle season whitetail hunts in the prairie provinces (Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba)range from about $1800 to $5200. As with all places you have to do your homework, but all things being equal Alberta and parts of Saskatchewan are the most expensive. Manitoba is cheaper as it is not as well know......meaning it has not received the press coverage in magazines. The Hanson buck in Saskatchewan of course gave them a boost.

The kind of hunt situation you describe in Kansas.....ad in a guide and the costs would probably average about $2700-$3000 in Manitoba, $3500-$4000 in Saskatchewan and $4200 and up in Alberta. There are always exceptions of course.

I have hunted and guided in all three provinces and there are big deer in all three. They have some problems with CWD now in Saskatchewan and Alberta along their adjoining border south of Lloydminster. This may have some impact in years to come.

Saskatchewan has one thing up on the other, and that is they are still allowed to bait deer. It has been banned in Manitoba and there is a push to ban it in Saskatchewan now as well. This all matters little, except in the northern forests, as most of the good whitetail hunting is in mixed forest/agricultural land anyways and the deer are feeding in alfalfa/grain fields.

Hope that mostly answered your question.

Skyline, you have a pm

quote:

The kind of hunt situation you describe in Kansas.....ad in a guide and the costs would probably average about $2700-$3000 in Manitoba, $3500-$4000 in Saskatchewan and $4200 and up in Alberta. There are always exceptions of course.

Thanks for the info Skyline. So that money includes license fees, meals, and lodging?

For decades there was NO deer hunting on the King Ranch. But as oil royalties declined and income from horses and cattle declined, the owners found themselves in the same position of many ranch owners: sitting on a very valuable asset that produces little income.

As the number of owners (heirs) increases generation by generaton, and they become and less attached to the land, income becomes more important if the ranch is to stay intact (i.e., not sold off in pieces)

I have no connections, but I for one, hope they can make enough money to keep it together. It will be a sad day when the King is chopped up and sold off...

SkyJacker...........yes, those hunt prices would include meals, lodging and licences. Those are average prices, some will be higher, some lower.

olarmy, I understand perfectly the need to 'diversify' in order to keep a big ranch, and the King Ranch is BIG, together. There is nothing good going on in agriculture these days.........at least nothing that is profitable. You are lucky to break even and most have to have outside sources of income coming in to help support the old homestead.

If you look north you will see some of the big Canadian ranches in British Columbia, such as the famous Gang Ranch and the Douglas Lake Cattle Company trying different things to remain afloat as well.

Times are changing, and mostly not for the better.

Skyline
Please send me a link to your web site also.
thanks