How many of you guys think a rifle should include a 100 yard proof target from the factory? At least this way you would have some idea of what you were getting and it would force the industry as a whole to tighten up on quality control.

Not trying to start a pissing match here, just get some opinions.

So how do you no on a proof target that it came from your rifle and not some supermatch, locked in a vice, tack driver?

Just a question.

JC,

I agree that every rifle should come with a test target. I don't think it will help the factories create a better product, but it's something that would show you potentially what you're buying.

I think it would be cost prohibitive for the major companies to shoot every rifle, but hey, it's a great idea.

Jim

Amosgreg,

That's a very good question with a very simple answer. Each manufacturer would voluntarily make their production facilities open to SAAMI for inspection at any time. I don't know if SAAMI would be the particular organization for this, but it would be one possibility.

I just took a tour of the ADS pipe plant in London, Ohio a few weeks ago and they are certified by PPI (plastic pipe institute). An inspector can show up at any time and inspect the plant to make sure they meet minimum standards to keep their certification. If not, their certification is jerked. This allows them to place a seal of approval sticker on every piece of pipe they produce. What does this do? It lets you know who could potentially making inferrior pipe and it proves to the customers of ADS that they are getting a quality product.

You see a lot of ISO9000, ISO9001, etc. around these days at manufacturing facilities. There are a certain set criteria that the facilities and personnel must maintain to keep this certification. If you don't, you could lose business. Companies like GM, Ford, Chrysler could mandate that if you are a manufacturing facility for them that you must meet this certification or lose their business.

If the firearms industry had some sort of certification for quality it would benefit both them and us as consumers. For one, it would eliminate the ones that are making inferrior grade firearms and more than likely increase the sales for the manufacturers that are making quality goods. What do we get...a darn good firearm. I would be willing to pay $5 to $10 more for a rifle that had been certified, wouldn't you?

[ 09-12-2002, 20:13: Message edited by: jcsabolt-2 ]

JC,

I think CZ fire all there rifles and provide you with a test target. I have the test targets oin my wall, all of my cz's shoot well. For the money I think cz/Brno would embarrass some of the larger comanies such as winchester & remington.

All things considered, you'd probably be better off not knowing what those overpriced rifles shot on paper before you bought them. The big companies don't give a damn about the quality of their products anymore, it's just beancounters that run the show. Even if they supplied the customer with the proof targets, they still probably wouldn't make anything right anyway. They lack the knowledge in the first place. Anyone who had half an ounce of intelligence quit working for them boys a long time ago.

A 100 yard pissing match,sorry guys,my barrels
not neeeeear long enough to compete in this one!

I got a proof target with my HK 91

Mannlichers used to do this which proved they were not as accurate as Tikkas on the whole.....

Maybe a verified and witnessed proof target shot at 200 yds! Not some idiot shooting a 300 win mag at 25 yds, and producing a 3 shot group in 1 hole, then claiming to be 100 yds!

I'd like to see all factory rifles meet reasonable accuracy standards, and I'd like to see a legitimate target included to verify that the standard was met. What that agreed-upon standard should be industry-wide I can't say, but I don't think the concept is unreasonable at all.

Realistically, the factories for the most part really DON'T care about over-all quality any more, and most manufacurers don't have a foggy clue as to what sort of accuracy a given rifle that they send out the door is capable of.

Quite honestly, accuracy is (and will be from here on out, and more than ever before) in the hands of the consumer to control. You can either get lucky and purchase an out-of-the-box miracle rifle, or else you can tune up an iffy one and refine it to get it the way you like it. That's the reality that most of us face.

I've found that the best way to solve all of the ills of factory rifles is to buy a "doner" rifle for the action (used is fine), then have it rebuilt into a real performer by a good riflesmith. In the long run, this is the least expensive way to go, and the results are a lot more gratifying. Factory standards be damned, simply because that concept's unlikely to come to fruition.

AD

CZ, Cooper, Merkel ... these provide test targets lately. Weatherby used to. Do they still? Certainly would be nice if all would.