THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM AMERICAN BIG GAME HUNTING FORUMS


Moderators: Canuck
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Sierra 85 HPBT .243
 Login/Join
 
one of us
posted
Are these tough enough for whitetails in the 150 lb. and under range?
I would like to use these for a combo deer coyote bullet if they shoot well enough in my Sako Classic. TIA
 
Posts: 175 | Registered: 27 December 2001Reply With Quote
<Don Martin29>
posted
Not for me. Where I hunt I have to be ready to take a shot under all woods circumstances.

Such a load would eliminate running, going away and standing shots where the deer is facing or looking back over it's shoulder.

What's the point anyway? Just buy some bullets made for the game.

 
Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
The point is, have you actually used them or are you just spouting off!
I asked a simple question, If you have a smart ass reply, please refrain from posting!
 
Posts: 175 | Registered: 27 December 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Sakoluver,

Don't pay attention to Don.I use his same style of hunting,and let me tell you,a 243 with ANY bullet is not made for shooting deer in the ass,period.The Siearra 85 grain HPBT is a GAME bullet,made for big game-call Siearra and ask them Don.

Back to the subject.While I haven't done it myself,I have witnessed my father kill about 15 blacktail deer with this bullet from his 243.Ranges have been from about 30 to 350 yards,with body weights ranging from 110 to 160 pounds.All deer shot in heart/lung area or shoulders.All deer either droped in their tracks or sprinted about 30 feet and droped dead.Have seen a few coyotes shot with the same combo,kills them pretty darn dead.

If you use this bullet,you will like it.Keep them in the shoulder,heart and lung area and you will be fine.No small caliber should be used for "Texas Heart Shots" anyway.

------------------
I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

 
Posts: 529 | Location: Humboldt County,CA | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I appreciate the reply, Brian.
This is the kind of actual field experience I was looking for.
 
Posts: 175 | Registered: 27 December 2001Reply With Quote
<Don Martin29>
posted
I should have checked with Brian M before saying that the 85gr .243 Sierra is not a "game" bullet.

I gave my opinion. It makes no sense to use that bullet. What advantange is it unless you don't have $20 for a box of bullets? In that case it's a survival situation and we can't worry about bullets blowing up on ribs or "shoulder shots" with a 85 gr Sierra and the deer getting up and running off on 3 legs.

Why not use 100 gr bullets? or premium bullets? The .243 Winchester is a borderline game rife. It's the minimum. This is where bullet selection really matters.

That's the whole idea of the .243 remember? The 80 gr bullet at 3500 for varmints and the 100 gr bullet at 3000 for deer!

"use enough gun" (Robert Ruark).

 
Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Don,
Hmmmm,never seen one blow up and all the deer looked pretty dead when they were in the frying pan.

Have you ever used the Siearra 85 grain HPBT on deer when shot from a 243 or 6mm?If not,then you can't really say that a deer is going to get up and walk off on three legs when shot with this load.Going by your logic I could say that a 7x57 with a 160 grain bullet wouldn't cleanly kill a deer,as I have never tried it.

Layne Simpson has a gunsmith buddy that he wrote about around ten years ago.The guy had killed approxmiately 300 whitetails,all with 24 calibers,the last 250 of which were taken with the Siearra 85 grain HPBT from a 243,a 6mm,a 240 Weatherby and a 243 Ackley.He also claimed to never have any problems with the bullets and never lost one with that particular bullet.

Maybe you should call this guy and argue with him instead of me.

------------------
I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

 
Posts: 529 | Location: Humboldt County,CA | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Hi Brian

Does HPBT mean hollow-point boat-tail?

I shoot 6mm-284 but use 85-grain Noslers. Seems like if you're going to use heavier bullets and give up velocity you might as well go right to 7mm Remington and keep a nice trajectory.

Tom

 
Posts: 14693 | Location: Moreno Valley CA USA | Registered: 20 November 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
TomP,

Yes,that stands for hollow point boat tail.

You are right,there is no point with going to a heavier bullet since this one obviously works fine.Kind of hard to improve on perfection.

------------------
I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

 
Posts: 529 | Location: Humboldt County,CA | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Don, I handload, I have a chronograph, I have been doing this since 1977. I know that a 100 grain bullet MAY be better for woods shooting of deer. I know that a 70 Grain Ballistic tip May be a better bullet for coyotes. I shoot a lot. I get tired of having to check or change my zero every time I change bullet weights.
What I am trying to determine, from the experiences of actual users, is, does this bullet work on deer.
The deer in my area are small. A huge deer here weighs 150 and is big news.
Have you actually shot any deer with a .243 with any bullet?
I do appreciate your and Brians replies and I apologoize for the smart ass remark.
I also remember reading, now that Brian brought it up, that Layne Simpson, of Shooting Times, had problems with deer running off with 100 grain bullets. He switched to 85's and solved the problem.
 
Posts: 175 | Registered: 27 December 2001Reply With Quote
<waldog>
posted
Sakoluver,

Maybe I can shed some light on this. A long time hunting partner shoots a 6mm built on a Savage action with a 26" barrel. This fall I was at his side when he shot a 225+ lbs mule deer. I believe he was using 90 or 95 grain Ballistic tips. Honestly the first shot wasn't the best (kinda poor really) and took out some liver an inyards. The deer hobbled a good ways and presented a 325 yard shot. The second hit was in the boiler room and dumped him.

Had the first been properly placed, I don't believe the second would have been necessary.

The 85grain sierra should be plenty if you connect with the rib cage. Running, shoulder, going away, and other risky shots are of course, out of the question.

Go for it!!!

 
Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Don Martin29:

Why not use 100 gr bullets? or premium bullets? The .243 Winchester is a borderline game rife. It's the minimum. This is where bullet selection really matters.



150lb deer should not need premium bullets in 6mm and I would bet that a well put together 85gr bullet could well kill quicker than a 100gr bullet by virtue of increased velocity and expansion. Sounds like a very good idea to me. In my 243 I've played around with just about every weight bullet from 100gr RN on down and have pretty much hit on the 90gr ballistic tip as a do it all.

 
Posts: 2258 | Location: Bristol, England | Registered: 24 April 2001Reply With Quote
<Don Martin29>
posted
So far some have suggested, like me, that a heavier or premium bullet would give more options. Others have given personal endorsements which are the stock and trade of the unscientific.

If you read the site http://ulfhere.freeyellow.com/ballistics/wounding.html you will see the conclusion that impact velocities for good, reliable bullet performance are at a 2,700 fps max for standard bullets (and the Sierra HP is no Corelokt) and 2,900 fps for premium bullets.

So there is a minimum range with these high velocity bullets.

Then we have the "difficult shot" catagory. One fact that must be kept in mind is that you can sit here at the keyboard and say you don't take running, going away or facing shots. But I don't believe it.

With all due respect. Buy some better bullets.


"use enough gun" (Robert Ruark)

 
Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
this combo works great, on the deer we have in north carolina, and by the way i would use it in the woods because if a bullet hits a limb or a tree its gonna deflect anyway don't let these cannon users fool you this bullet uses rapid expansion to its advantage better than the heavier weight bullets
 
Posts: 336 | Registered: 06 June 2001Reply With Quote
<Eagle Eye>
posted
I agree with Don....my old hunting partner used 85's on deer years ago and we spent most of the time tracking. These things really fly fast and under 100 yards, we found they blew up after hitting bone and caused nasty wounds. Great for 'yote destruction but not great for game animals.

If one has to use a 243 for deer hunting, I suggest you use the biggest available and preferably a premium bullet. If a premium isn't for you, then consider a 100 grainer in a Hornady Interlok or a Speer Hotcore....it does make a difference.

 
Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of Rob1SG
posted Hide Post
I have tried the Sierra FB 100gr in my 6mm Rem.I didn't like them, shot a doe going away at 50yds the bullet didn't exit. It took us the better part of a day to track her on hands and knees. I'm going to go with either the 100gr Hornady or Nosler Part.If I was going to shoot deer with an 85gr go with the Nosler Part. I don't like the Nosler BT either.The 100gr for coyotes isn't bad especially in the wind.
 
Posts: 1111 | Location: Edmond,OK | Registered: 14 March 2001Reply With Quote
<Eagle Eye>
posted
Hey Don: I read the thread you referred to...very interesting. I also read the SC DNR report. I found this paragraph rather enlightning:


Some information is known regarding the weapon used in 444 of the 493 kills. The weapons used are grouped by caliber against the mean distance traveled for all kills (including instantaneous kills). In general, trends by caliber are weak, as might be expected. However, there are differences that must be considered significant, statistically speaking (if in no other sense). The smallest bore, .243 (6 mm) caliber, accounted for 10.8 % (48/444) of the documented kills, with an average distance traveled of 40 yards. This compares with 31 yards for .277 caliber (84/444, or 18.9 %), 26 yards for .284 (7 mm) caliber (160/444, or 36.0 %), and 33 yards for .308 caliber (116/444, or 26.1 %). Clearly, there is a slight increase in the mean travel distance for the .243 bore. Surprisingly, there is also a significant (statistically) difference between the .284 caliber and the .277 and .308 calibers, which are essentially the same. I am at a loss to explain this, particularly given the sample size. Even more striking is the case of the kills involving the .257 caliber, which make up only 8.1 % (36/444) and which have a mean travel distance of a mere 14 yards! Now to a certain extent this can be attributed to the small sample size. But it also clearly reflects some bias of behavior by the shooters or the weapons used in this caliber. Unfortunately, no further information is available on specific cartridges used or cross-correlations between calibers and hit locations.


Not only does it show problems with the 243 with deer, but also adds support to my observations with the 257 calibers. Too bad the DNR didn't look into this further.

 
Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Don,

I don't shoot deer in the ass with small guns,period.If you don't belive me,well that's just too bad.

I have seen 15 deer killed at ranges from 30 to 350 yards with the Siearra 85 grain HPBT.All the deer died quickly and cleanly.I don't care what ANY test on ANY test medium says,I know what I have seen that bullet do on game time and time again.

Once again Don,have you ever killed a deer or witnessed a deer kill with the Siearra 85 grain HPBT?No,not any other brand or style of 85 grainer,this specific one.

Why use them?Well,they're accurate out of the gun and kill deer like lightening.How much "better" do you need Don?Does the bullet have to cut and wrap the meat for you too?

I will be absolutley the first person to tell you that a 243 with ANY bullet is NOT the gun to use on quartering away or ass shots.If you find that you simply can't stand not to shoot at every legal deer you see,buy a gun chambered in a cartridge large enough for the job,don't use a 243 or any other small cartridge.

The 243 and cartridges of the like are for people who are willing to wait to put bullets where you are supposed to,in the heart/lung area.If you can't do that,then don't use a 243.

------------------
I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

 
Posts: 529 | Location: Humboldt County,CA | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
<lokey>
posted
Amen brother Brian, amen. I shoot the Sierra 85 HPBT, and I love it. It has killed everything it touched instantly, not even a leg twitch. And that includes a handful of deer, over 20 antelope, and two cow elk. Sierra Gamekings kill deer as well, or better, than any other bullet on the planet, hands down!!~lokey
 
Reply With Quote
<Don Martin29>
posted
Everything that I have shot with the 85gr HPBT Sierra has gone right down too. I looked in my journals and found my first use of that bullet in June 1963. The hunting journal reads "lung shot, blew up" !

I have records of groups with that M70 and they show that the 85 Sierra Spitzer shot far more consistant groups and much smaller ones also. The 75 Sierra was the best and my first choice.

 
Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Don,
The early versions of the .243 85 grain HPBT and .257 90 grain HPBT were made for varmints.It wasn't until 1970 I belive that they changed the design to make them suitable for deer sized game.My father used the 90 grain HPBT .257 when they first came out and then later when they were changed.He said the differences were like night and day between the early varmint version and the later "deer" version.

------------------
I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

 
Posts: 529 | Location: Humboldt County,CA | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
<Don Martin29>
posted
That was a 225 yard shot on a woodchuck. "Blew up" means the woodchuck blew up!

What did you think, that the bullet blew up? Naw, I would not use a weak load on game now that I know better.

 
Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
No
 
Posts: 3097 | Location: Louisiana | Registered: 28 November 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Don,

I belived that you meant "blew up" as reference to shooting a deer.

A 300 Weatherby Magnum with 165 will blow up a groundhog pretty good too,and that wouldn't keep me from using it on deer.

"Hey Jim-Bo,why don't you deer hunt with your 30-378?"

"Well Bob,I shot a groundhog with it and the ground hog blew up,so I figure it ain't no good for deer."

"Good point Jim-Bo.My 270 blows up groundhogs too,I better junk it and buy a 45/70 before I get myself in trouble with a three legged deer."

------------------
I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

 
Posts: 529 | Location: Humboldt County,CA | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
<Don Martin29>
posted
Brian M,

I read some humour in your posts and I think it's fine with me. I admit I infered that the 1963 log was a deer on purpose but the ploy did not work on you.

I really like Sierra products. I have used them since 1953 for competition, varmints, game and testing. However you are on the edge of a reasonable minimum.

I just hope the next bridge I drive over has not been specified like that.

I loaded .243 ammo for a friend back about 1968. He had a Rem 600 I think and he wanted the very least recoil. At that time I used the 75 gr Sierra HP for both varmints and target (200yd) and I made up a very light load for him. He shot a deer with that light load and it ran and ran. The deer ran out of the woods and died right by the back of his truck! He was delighted.

That load may also be unsuitable for brush. I have done a lot of testing on "brush" and I know that the 75 gr Sierra at 3500 + will blow up on twigs and small branches but say a 160 7mm at 3000 fps will not. They will all tumble if they touch something however. Somewhere in this impact range there are "brush" loads.

 
Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Don,
I knew you were trying to slip something past me.

You know I would be the first person to say that a 243 or any high velocity cartridge is not good for brush hunting.IMO,that's what the 35 Remington,375 Winchester,45/70 and the like are made for.You are right,they ALL deflect (even the big .458 500 grainer),BUT in brush hunting deer are usualy shot at poor angles at close range.With something like a 243 or 270 that spells a lot of good eating meat gone to waste.The old pumpkin shooters don't ruin much meat and put deer straight down.

The 243,in the hands of a cool headed shot that can place his bullet in the heart/lung area and uses a halfway decent bullet will bring home every buck he shoots.

To really tell the truth,I don't have much interested in hunting deer with the 243.While mine is extremely accurate (it will average around 0.25 inch at 100 yards from the bench),it is VERY heavy.I prefer to use one of my 257 Roberts's,which weight around 3 pounds less than my 243.If I ever picked up a lightweight 243 I'd most definetly deer hunt with it,as I have seen it preform wonderfully.

------------------
I'm out to wrong rights,depress the opressed,and generaly make an ass of myself!

[This message has been edited by Brian M (edited 01-30-2002).]

 
Posts: 529 | Location: Humboldt County,CA | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
in the places i call brush you can't really walk with out a good pair of carhart bibs and a jacket, more less expect to kill a deer cleanly with buckshot, that being said i have had to shoot rabbits at 10ft because you could't see them any further, so i back away from the brush, cutover, or whatever you want to call it find a good trail put up a nice treestand and 9 times out of ten the deer are within 50 yds and over a bean field or food plot you may have a shot up to 300yds but very seldom, most within 100yds anything would have worked when i did my part, including the .243 85 grain bthp i have used it. I sell guns to guys every day who laugh at the .243 then i ask them to witness the performance, the only way i learned about it was by trying, this is a hell of a whitetail combo, under the rite conditions, bruised shoulders, and big cannon personalites don't eliminate shot placement
 
Posts: 336 | Registered: 06 June 2001Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Hi Brian

I shot one mule deer from behind with 7mm magnum, that's the only one. I usually get a better shot if I wait long enough, and if not, there's always next year. The longer I do this, the shorter the shots get anyway.

Tom

 
Posts: 14693 | Location: Moreno Valley CA USA | Registered: 20 November 2000Reply With Quote
<k wood>
posted
I've never shot deer with them but I have shoe coyotes with them. They are not the bullet you want if you are planning on saving the fur. They make a huge hole! I have seen where they didn't exit on a coyote. Of course the coyotes were very dead.
 
Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I have shot a few deer and plainsgame with that bullet and several other Sierra bullets, in various 6mm's...

They will work fine on broadside shots if you keep them off the sholder bones and not take angling shots with too much angle...

I have had better luck with them in my 6x45 than in the 243 as the lower velocity is less severe on the bullet and it has much more penitration...

Sierras are never my choice these days with all the good bullets out there to be had at a simular price....

I have to say the 6mm's in any form are not a valid caliber for taking rear end shots on deer sized game IMHO....to much bone encountered on raking shots, as a rule.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

 
Posts: 42195 | Location: Twin Falls, Idaho | Registered: 04 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I have never taken a rear end shot unless it was at wounded game getting away. Part of hunting is being able to decide what is a sporting shot and what isn't. I mostly used the 85 sierra hpbt and the hornady 87 grain flat base soft point with good results. I never had any problem with penetration on shoulders but meat destruction can be pretty bad at high impact velocities. I am presently experimenting with heavier tougher bullets because where I hunt is crawling with large feral hogs. I am now loading 100 grain remington corelokts and 100 grain spbt hornadys. If these don't provide the killing power I'm looking for with good hits I'll go to my 7x57 mauser with 160 grain speers.
 
Posts: 2899 | Registered: 24 November 2000Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 


Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia