with the good thread going about big game rifle accuracy needs, I thought about things I have shot myself, and I think about some of the shows I see on TV. Now my life is real life and while I have never shot near as many animals as I have seen shot on the outdoor channel,I cannot ever remember missing a deer standing still with a rifle...is that BS! may sound that way, but it aint...I probably shot less than 20 deer with a rifle in my life and no other big game (besides coyote)....my farthest shot was a paced 285 yards...the next farthest may have been 150 tops...I shot them all with a 7 mag 700. Now the point, on many of these tv shows they actually miss an elk completely!!!!!!!unbelievable...makes me think if they miss the damn thing how many are they gut shooting and not showing us??????????????????????? same goes for other game....many times it seems they are taking too long a shot or are shooting up hill or down hill....but hey they miss the animal completely...to me there is no excuse for taking a shot in open country( no deflection excuses) and missing your target all together, much less hit the dang vital zone....and we debate the benefits of 1 moa....if the shows are indicative of what really happens out there...then you really cant take too accurate a rifle with you. In my mind a leathal zone on even a whitetail is larger than 6"...I am thinking you could hit it in a certain 12 " circle and surely kill it...even more like an area 12" high X 18" long! Since I would never advocate shooting a moving deert that hasnt already been shot once, I have ahrd time thinking a guy should be hunting deer if he is missing them regularly.....bob

222,
I think your right and you have shot enough to have confidence and have pride in your ability and again I think that is admirable and I comend anyone who shoots well enough not to wound, he who goes to the trouble to learn to shoot is a sportsman...

I feel the same way and believe I am one of the best shots with a rifle that I have ever known and so do a lot of other folks that know me..Why? because for 50 plus years I have worked at it and strived for perfection. I still have a bad day now and then....but not often...I practice off hand shooting a lot...No brag just fact and I'll back it up for dollars or donuts and coffee, might even loose, but will give it my best.

222blr... I sometimes do/have hunted with people who are really bad shots, and from my observations it is mostly because they do not practice. Like ol' Ray says I beleave everyone has their off days, I know I have missed a few completely for reasons unknown to me. I am not knocking rednecks... but imagine this picture... my relatives, the ones who are rednecks, love beer and guns (a bad combo togeather) they always ask me to go shooting with them while they drink a 12 pack... maybe this explans the misses I see with them but not others. I always decline when it is on their terms, I dont drink, but not for religous reasons, I just am a naturally "high" person. I have a queston for my elders... am I too prudent in the sense that I dont even want to show them how to reload? I fear their safty at times.

[ 03-07-2003, 02:49: Message edited by: smallfry ]

You can learn alot about a rifle and accuracy by shooting over a bench and sand bags, and lack of doing enough shooting before the season is the number one reason of missed or poorly placed shots.
The next biggest reason is not transfering that shooting to hunting type situations, shooting over a tree, backpack, or offhand.
Just my opinion

Some guys refuse to even practice. They just pick up the old shootin iron, a pocket full of shells, and they're good to go. "Heck, it was shootin O.K. last year, no need to waste shells."

I also see a lot of "gadget guys" with state of the art new 20LB bull barreled, police sniper rifles, shooting the latest super-duper mag round, a bipod on the front, and a scope with an objective lens big as an oil can. So busy screwing with their gear, they aint had time to learn how to shoot.

I like pretty simple rifles, long as they work good, and like to get plenty of trigger time. I shoot something or other every weekend. Even have an indoor pellet rifle set up in the barn to shoot at night. Incidently, you can tell who's a good shooter and who aint real quick when you get out the pellet rifle.

oldfart. Yup! A .5 group off bags doesn't equate to a .5 group offhand or hanging out of a tree. Yet few folks practice "hunting" type shots. Many, many years ago, I was shooting a 30-06 that was a tack driver. For laughs and giggles, I posted a 10" bullseye on the target frame at 100yds and shot 10 shots at it. Offhand. I hit the target frame 6 times. 1 in the bull. 4 shots went I know not where. Since then I have always spent time practicing "hunting" type shooting.

Exactly! While bench accuracy is great, if you can't field shoot, then you really can't hunt. I am a reasponably good field rifle shot. I can keep all of my shots in a 10-12" circle out to 300yds on most days, but have pulled a bad shot now & then resulting in a wounded animal(twice). Fortunately, no animal was lost & a min. time was required to finish them.
I have hunted w/ several of my friends who don't practice much before we go. I always incourage them to get closer. When you are paying for wounded game, as in Africa, bad shooting really has a way of wrecking your day.

smallfry,

You will end up like those you hang around with. Don't go shooting or driving for that matter with drinkers. This is a very serious subject. You don't want your doctor drinking, your pilot drinking nor other guys drinking around you with guns.

I am quite serious when I say to find other friends to go shooting with.

Steiny:

quote:

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Incidently, you can tell who's a good shooter and who aint real quick when you get out the pellet rifle.

---

Air rifle sure teaches you the value of "follow through", doesn't it?

Regards,
hm

I think you have to shoot a lot, to start noticing the little imperfections of a rifle and your own technique. A once-a-year trip to the range will not yield much insight into either. I thought I was a pretty good shot until I started shooting a lot at targets that I measured for results, and started looking for the reasons for less-than-good groups. I also made a practice of hunting prone from ambush, on sage flats. If I'm going to shoot further than 200 yards, there should be plenty of time to set up properly.

Tom

If you want to have fun get a 6" bull target and put it up at 100yds. Using a .22 rifle shoot 3 shots each at 100, 75, 50 and 25yds from any chosen position (not the bench) except at 25 where shots must be offhand. Move quickly from each station (safely) and try to keep to a 10 shot/minute pace once you start shooting. Once you can keep all 12 shots in the 6" bull make it a 4" bull.

Bob

222blr,
I've stated many times on this forum about the lengths I go to in order to get the finest accuracy possible. While I enjoy the search, its real purpose is to prevent wounding a animal. I agree with all the comments made in this thread. Especially those about the need for practice. I've shot at running game and have never lost a animal. (Knock on wood!) I believe the bigest factor is that during the off seasons I shoot at a lot of running jackrabbits coupled with not taking shots I'm uncomfortable with. All the bench work I do is only to be sure that the rifle doesn't throw me a curve. Have fun all.

[ 03-07-2003, 08:44: Message edited by: BigBob ]

I believe that the aspect of being familiar with your rifle and load has a lot to do with field accuracy. Where it was safe to do so, I used to have my rifle with me almost always, and practiced shooting under lots of different conditions of physical exertion. it made a big difference in my confidence that I could take a shot, and place it accurately. Although I have seen it happen, not often do you get a game animal to wonder in front of you while you are seated at your shooting bench. Most of the time I'm out of breath, tired, sweating, etc., when I see a whatever. I think I just told on myself, didn't I?

so far i have not missed a shot w/ my .308 @ a standing deer. Neither have i ever shot at a running one....yet. I have hit one deer in the guts and that was at 200 yards and an extreme off hand shot. I could have shot other deer but i decided on her because she was seriously hurt. I learned my lesson. I cannot stand hunters taht shoot at anything that moves in the woods. I mean what the hell it could be a squirrel, chicken cow etc. I once saw a fella on realtree outdoors who shot a nice 10 pt. whitetail at 200 yards w/ a muzzleloader. He hit the tropy straight in the spine. I guess if it puts them down its a decent kill but i always go for heart shots or double lung.

Growing up my grandpa taught me how to shoot. He grew up in depression era Oklahoma and had to shoot straight because ammo was too expensive to waste and if you didn't hit your target you went hungry. We never shot off a bench. We would set up targets, mainly pie plates, at various distances and heights to simulate the various positions game would be in. He showed me how to properly aim the rifle and how to stablize it using the strap. Never used a scope growing up just plain iron sights. If you learn the fundamentals of proper gun handling and practice them you will not have any problems making the shot.

Hello, Its great to read these posts. I myself am the best shot I have ever big game hunted with (thats not saying much), I have missed deer, but always followed up with a sucessful shot. I have never lost a wounded deer. I really like to shoot. I used to be a poor shot, I finally learned to tolerate recoil and I shoot alot from field positions. Paper plates are good targets. I like to hang steel gongs, about 6-8" diameter, there is instant gratification when you shoot them, the only problem is when trying to fire rapidly, the swinging gong is a distraction, though Im sure you could hang a chain off its down edge to stop it. It takes alot of steel to stop a 30-06, 1/2 steel doesnt last long. 1/8 steel is fun for 22s, you can see and hear the hit, plus they last forever if you hang them on chain.

I don't consider myself exceptional with a high powered rifle. My strength is with a shotgun, and then a pistol.

I haven't however missed the vitals of a standing big game animal in at least 30 years. The one that I can remember, a mule deer, was because I thought too much. It was a 300+ shot. I had a huge canyon between me and him, and he was beneath me at about a 45 degree angle.

It got to be ridiculous. The more I shot, the more I tried to figure what the Hell I was doing; meanwhile the buck was just standing there. I think I probably fired four or five shots at him. I'm sure I missed him by a foot, high, the first time, and proceeded to increase the elevation, and probably missed him by three feet the last time. I had no clue.

Finally a friend I was hunting with asked me if he could take a shot before the buck died of old age. One "bang" later, the buck was dead in a pile.

One reason I won't take a shot at running game, is that, again, I have no clue what I'm doing. I have missed running deer, at 50 yards, broadside, wide open. That's why I haven't taken a shot at running game in about thirty years.

I've always found a running shot irritating, because like I say, my lead with a shotgun is instinctive, and deadly accurate. On the running shots with a rifle I was thinking too much and leading too much. I never had a case where I wounded an animal too far back, it was always a clean miss.

Because of these weaknesses, I've become a patient shooter. No Hail Mary's, no Texas Heart Shot. I have no feeling of failure if the animal gets away, because I'm a tenacious bastard. I know my hunting skills will put me in position for the shot I know I'm capable of making. I'd rate my hunting skills a 10; my shooting skills a 7 or 8.

Follow your heart Smallfry! I believe that gut feelings are usually pretty accurate.

Kensco,

I wont say that I will NOT take a running shot, but I will say that they come in a multitude of circumstances. Ive done well with some and had my confidence thouroghly shaken with others. Sometimes it seems like the up close running shots are more difficult than the more distant ones, kind of like the way big airplanes dont appear to be going very fast from a distance. But try holding the crosshairs on a bolting buck that is only 30 yds away.. But more often than not what I will I try to do though is hold on the target as long as possible and hope for just an instant of a good opportunity.

I agree but challenging circumstances do sometimes cause things to go awry. I reckon I miss about once in a box of 20. It is nearly allways due to my incipient flinch creeping up on me so I just get the 22lr out.

There's no practice like the real thing done regularly. I get to do it year round but I would reckon an off season coyote hunter gets better practice than someone who goes to the range

We are quite a group here, from the rank amateur to the true Experts. But I feel that the average member here is a real cut above the AVERAGE hunter out there.

I see the average hunter , at least in MT, as really quite incompetant. Most are road hunters, most have little idea about bullet performance or ballistics. Most can't hit something the size of a deers vital area at 100 yds. YET these guys still shoot at 500 yds and beyond. I wont even go into their tactics or knowledge of the animals hunted.

My range has a series of 10" round steel plates at the 100 and 200 yd target stands. I have watched lots of "hunters" shoot at these flat black,stationary plates from the BENCH and they can't consistently hit even the 100 yard plate. The 200 yd plate is generally untouched. Yet again, these same guys shoot at game at 300 and 400 yds. Tell them to take a shot away from the bench and nearly ALL will choose the STANDING position! Show them how to use a sling, as well as shooting from the sitting or prone position and they are amazed at how much better they can do.

I think that an accurate rifle serves a couple of purposes. The shooter probably had to work up some loads so he has some bench time. That practice alone helps. Then the shooter probably has confidence in that rifle and with any luck DOES know where it will hit at 150 oe 250 yds.

A 1/2" rifle does not make one a good field position shooter, its not a cure all, but that acuracy doesn't hurt you either.

FN in MT