Wow. Terrible it must have been for the young woman. I imagine a few torches are going to get ignited after this...


http://www.ottawacitizen.com/t...k/2154121/story.html

No matter what is said to the contrary about coyotes and no matter how authoritative they try to make it sound, I consider them quite dangerous. I have felt a chill up my spine and the hair on my neck stand up, only to look behind me and find them silently following. And the funny thing was, I'm sure I didn't hear them. You look, they disappear and melt back off the field into the woods, you walk on, they re-appear and continue following. Spooky when by yourself near dark and far, far from anything and anybody. A couple of shotgun rounds into where they might be watching you from and you don't see them again.

My sixth sense certainly thought that was a genuine threat. And, I'm completely satisfied and convinced if you had to spend the night out unprotected in the deep woods where they abound, and if you were injured or disabled where there was blood...you'd never see the sunrise.

That's not just what I think. I've heard a number of hunters here in the Mid-South say the same in almost those words. Because of that and other reasons the policy is shoot on sight.

Ditto on packs of wild dogs. You don't hear that one talked about much, but I guarantee it's a problem too. We've had our run-ins with them on deer hunts. You arrive for your hunt well before dawn, get out of your vehicle and then hear a pack of them howling (different sound from coyotes) and the sounds move quickly as they chase deer across the field in front of you somewhere out there in the darkness. I don't know how others here deal with it, but I usually get back in the vehicle and wait a while til the sounds die out before starting the long hike to the stand.

Fwiw I started seeing coyotes in W. TN by 1970. That means they were here probably way before that. The pelts at one time brought about $40. I think that's what it was..could be a little off on that however..it's been a long time now since you could get much for them. The weight appears not that large..an adult looks I think 30-35 and maybe 40 tops.

I was working late one night around Weatherford, Texas. I was riding colts in the indoor arena, when coyotes surrounded the barn. I know there weren't, but it sounded like there were dozens of them out there. I put my colts up and hightailed it to my truck. Damn sure had goosebumps and my hair standing up.

I've never in all my life considered coyotes a threat or danger to an adult human. I still won't feel threatened or scared after reading this either.
I still shoot them on sight though!

bizarre

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
I've never in all my life considered coyotes a threat or danger to an adult human. I still won't feel threatened or scared after reading this either.
I still shoot them on sight though!

They're not the same animals you are used to. This is the point I was trying to make in the other thread.

Killed 22 of them last Winter at night with my shotgun.Don`t see any around lately.2 legged critters are the only things that are scary in the woods.

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
.2 legged critters are the only things that are scary in the woods.

Spoken by a man never attacked by a large predator such as a cougar or brown bear.

And no, I haven't either, but nor am I ashamed to admit that a large predator attacking me, even while armed, is almost certainly a very, very scary thing. I've hunted bear in AK, and even the *thought* of being attacked by a large brown bear was somewhat disconcerting, after seeing their sign. Some get simply enormous, and killing--at least in part--to survive, is what they do. I met a guy on a plane once who's partner had been horribly mauled by a griz (MT, ID or WY I think) the two stumbled across while the two were bowhunting. He said it was the scariest thing he'd ever experienced. I believe him. Being eaten, I'm guessing, is no fun at all, no matter who's dining.

I have to agree with Snellstrom. Nothing to be afraid of. Coyotes are not cougars of brown bears. If you attack back, instead of screaming and running, you win. That's why I always carry a knife in the woods and a pistol where I can.

He is also correct about the 2 legged sort. They shoot back.

They are still wild animals and should be treated as such. I don't like 'em one bit. Seen them eating a calf one time as it was being born, and shot a few of them!

As a New Yorker, I have watched the progression from "coydogs" to full fledged coyotes in NY woods (both the Catskills and Adiroundacks) Since I am retired as a hunter for some years I don't know if they are a different breed nowadays. The woman killed might have been having her period and the coyotes smelled blood. Anyway, otherwise, my leaning is towards Snellstrom. I do recall about 25 years ago being out for winter ruffed grouse in January and picking up tracks of a deer -and the same tracks being mixed with coyote tracks. (I was on a dirt road) I followed and came up over a small rise -and found about 5 coyotes pulling down a doe. I only had a 12 with #6's. They fled as I shot at one (at about 40 yards). Happily, the coyote dropped and I ran up and finished him. Unhappily, I had to shoot the doe as well because she was too badly mauled. Before that incident (like many Easterners) I rather thought that coyotes were just cute animals. I have hated them ever since. They were eating at that doe before she was dead. They are truly "vermin" and I don't blame the Westerners who shoot them on sight.

quote:

Originally posted by Kamo Gari:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by OLBIKER:
.2 legged critters are the only things that are scary in the woods.

Spoken by a man never attacked by a large predator such as a cougar or brown bear.

We have plenty of Big Black bears right here where I live.I live in the Woods where my nearist neighbor is a mile away.I Predator Hunt,Trap during the winter.The only time I was ever threatened was by a downstate Hunter tresspassing on my property.There are no Grizzley Bears here.There are plenty Wolves and a few Couger.I always carry my 1911A1,plus what ever I am using to hunt with.I will say it again,only the two legged varments am I bothered by.

Saw 2 tonight while sitting in a tree stand with my bow...thought about shooting if they cam e close enough. Little did I know they probably knew I was there...just waitng for me to come down so they could eat me. I knew I was surrounded, oh yea, I'm in South Texas I'm always surrounded .

Perry

OK in all seriousness, something ain't right here. 2 YEARLING coyotes killed her. They maybe weigh 20 pounds and their teeth are like 1/2 inch long. Please someone explain what I am missing here. And don't give me any nonsense about coyotes being stone cold man eaters, I have spent my entire life in the brush around them.

Perry

I can't make it add up. I've been around coyotes for fifty years in Texas and New Mexico and every coyote I ever saw was curious, if they hadn't been around man much, or running like a bat out of Hell to get far away from me if they had been raised around man. Granted there are cases where housing developments have obliterated coyote habitat and they make off with a domestic cat or small dog once in a while, until they are all killed or trapped.

I don't doubt what happened, but it sure is atypical of coyotes, and yes, when they come in close to camp and start raising hell the hair stands up on the back of my neck, but, no I don't expect them to attack me.

I did have a close encounter with wild coyotes years ago on the WS Ranch in Northeastern New Mexico. Close, as in, 12" off my fingertips. Talk about having your heart racing, that will do it. The coldest yellow eyes you'll ever want to stare into. All I had to do to stop the encounter was stand up. He threw dirt all over me trying to get away.

If those two coyotes did bring her down, they need to be found.

Could they have been wolves and the intel is wrong? Wolves in that area?

Perry

Let's put it this way - any predator can be dangerous. Some we consider more dangerous as they are agressive towards humans more often; others less so.

Point is, the generalities of a species and our interactions with them do not dictate the specifics of any one given circumstance, and that's something everyone should remember.

What I'm saying is this, it doesn't matter if the likihood of attack is 1 in 100,000 or 1 in one million.

If you're the one, it sucks to be you!

Children especially should understand this; so also anyone who is alone.

This is not to say people should be afraid to be in the woods - only aware of their surroundings!

I always though that area of Canada had wolfs. Do they have coyotes and wolfs in the same area?

quote:

Originally posted by The Slug:

quote:

Originally posted by Snellstrom:
I've never in all my life considered coyotes a threat or danger to an adult human. I still won't feel threatened or scared after reading this either.
I still shoot them on sight though!

They're not the same animals you are used to. This is the point I was trying to make in the other thread.

After a dozen years of no baiting bears here in Oregon, the population of ALL predators in the area has gone up dramatically. I believe coyotes have benefitted from this policy also, being a "target of opportunity" when hunting bear over bait. I am sure many were shot this way.

I am with The Slug on this. The coyotes in my area appear far more brazen than just a few years ago.
While I am not particularly "afraid" of coyotes, I am wary of them.

If I was in the woods, unarmed, injured and there were 3 or 4 of them, it might be a different story, however.
One reason I am never unarmed in the woods.

friar, I think that's an excellent post. It sums it up. What's true generally with this and much else in life and in the outdoors means nothing at all in a specific case. Like your chances of shark attack are, what is it they say?..less than getting hit by lightening? But do the overall odds change any if you're swimming at dusk by yourself where you've been spear-fishing and a large bull shark happens to be passing by? For that matter, I defied the odds once by being charged by a buck of all things, but certainly nothing of the sort has ever occurred to me before or since.

Three forumites here including me have mentioned with coyotes the fear that sends the hair standing up on the back of your neck. In my case it was honestly with no sound first or other objective way of knowing a coyote was present. That has got to be the ancient, primeval sense of radiated danger telling you that you're being hunted and that is born out of more than a million years of human evolution. When such occurs, you really are in danger (it's happened very few other times, and in one I was thereupon attacked by a dog I didn't otherwise know was following me). You can always trust what it's trying to tell you. Turn and look and something will be there.

Anyway, are coyotes' eyes really yellow? I glassed a large, long legged one a long time from my deer stand as it was drinking from a pond about 50 yards away. I thought the eyes looked more green. For some reason I had this feeling of looking into pure malevolence. That was back when I didn't want to disrupt the deer hunt to shoot one. I now don't think it matters. There probably isn't a deer right in the immediate area anyway with a coyote present.

J-Zola:

You raise an interesting point. I hunted black bear in the Nipissing District of Ontario Province for over 10 years -and never heard a reference to coyotes. Honesty does compel me to say that while on a first time bear hunt in New Brunswick I did see a coyote while on stand. (I was on stand near the edge of farm country, and in fact, was looking out on one angle towards clear sky) - totally different from black bear stands in deep woods. I just suppose that coyotes prefer more open country. (I did read once that they are also once were called the "prairie wolf")

Once we have couple more coyotes attack pets in my Ohio suburbs, you will see a greater call for these animals being shot on sight.

Didn't that whack-job Jessica Simpson loose her precious pooch to a coyote a few weeks ago ? If this doesn't get the news media fired up, I don't know what will

I have been told they are not native to Ohio, so it makes sense to exterminate in such areas.

I happen to be a native of Nova Scotia and have hiked that same trail,the sky line trail its called in the highlands national park.This hiking trail is very accesable to the public and is heavily used.My opinion is that these particular coyotes may have become habituated to people.One of my friends who lives in the area told me of a incident last winter when a coyote approached a cross country skier and was pushed away with the sharpe end of the pole.As you can imagine we Nova Scotians are very upset over this tragedy.Coyotes here in N.S. tend to be quite large I have snared 2 myself that have gone over 45 lbs.

At less than a meter they are yellow, alive and the look of "hate?" was stunning. His eyes were darting everywhere as if to determine where I was weakest; combine that with a low throaty growl, lips curled back showing every tooth in his head, body 110% tense ready to do something; and yeah, he called my bluff.

Coyote are neither malevolent nor benign. They are just coyotes doing what coyotes do. Which is survive with what they've got to work with.
Armed with a long handled trapper's trowel, if I was set on by say three coyotes, I'd think my chances of getting off unscathed would be very good. In fact, confronted by 3 or 4 coyotes and if I had my trowel, I think a good bluff on my part would send them off. A trapper's trowel is a heavy duty trowel with a stout handle on it that's about 2.5' long.
My son, when he lived in San Diego, said it was quite common to see them along the jogging trails around the city. You kinda ignored them and they kinda ignored you.

quote:

Originally posted by Kensco:
At less than a meter they are yellow, alive and the look of "hate?" was stunning. His eyes were darting everywhere as if to determine where I was weakest; combine that with a low throaty growl, lips curled back showing every tooth in his head, body 110% tense ready to do something; and yeah, he called my bluff.

Are you sure that wasn't Grendel.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
I will say it again,only the two legged varments am I bothered by.

Actually, what you wrote originally was, "2 legged critters are the only things that are scary in the woods." But point taken.

I noted the comments of perry -and totally agree with them. (I thought it interesting that he and I separated by some 1500 miles or so and many years difference in experience with coyotes -had the same view of them. I became contemptuous of coyotes when I was an active hunter 25-30 years ago. They were simply a new species of real vermin -and to be shot on sight. I was also interested to read that the actual attack by the coyotes on that poor woman was by a couple of yearling coyotes - and that they would have weighed about 20 lbs each. {I have been looking in on a thread where coyotes in Maine are supposedly decimating the deer population and I openly expressed doubts about that. Oh, well, I guess the coyotes in Texas (where perry is) are smaller and more timid -like the Texans. He has to come up to Maine to meet real coyotes!)

One has to wonder if the bunny hugging attitude toward coyotes doesn't play into the increasing aggression one reads about?? Like the black bears that have become very aggressive with their pan handling around camps and parks. They expect a hand out and can get very aggressive if one isn't given.
I don't have the slightest support for this thought but for two juvenile coyotes to make a apparently unprovoked attack on a human is beyond anything I've ever seen on the part of a coyote.
I think your Texas coyotes are weatern coyotes.

Someone mentioned earlier, feral dogs are quite the issue in some areas too. While I agree that neither is any match for an armed man I am wary of both, if at close range or at a disadvantage.
I know that two memories stick in my head. As a kid (probably 11 or so) I watched a pack of coyotes eat twin calves and the biggest portion of a heifers reproductive organs as she tried to calve and get up all at once. When my dad found them (I was tagging along with him on heifer checking duty) they had killed the calves and started on her, he got two killed with my grand-dads old 218 bee before they decided she wasn't worth sticking around for.

The second memory was shooting feral dogs. When I was 19 or so 3 had started eating noses and such off of some fresh weaned steers in a field of ours. I caught them at daylight and they were not especially hard to get close to as they were busy with a calf they had hung in a fence, 2 pit bulls and a lab looking dog of some sort. I killed all three with 3" 4's out of an old 870. The alarming part was that the last dog (one of the pits) I caught through the hips trying to make his escape and instead of trying to get away in his crippled state he tried to come for me as I went to finish him off. Obviously given his condition and my weaponry I wasn't in any danger but both situations taught me alot about carnivores or predators once they are in the "kill zone" or are hurt that I won't soon forget.

atillbeeman:

It was good to read your comment that coyotes (like all animal predators) are neither benevolent nor malevolent. It ties in with your last post about bunnyhuggers who want to protect them. Of course, it has to do with the fact that they resemble dogs. In my view -so does a wolf - and I would shoot him on sight, too, if he invades my territory. Sorry to say, you and I are a losing minority in this country when it comes to shooting predator animals or even vermin and coyotes will be grabbing the family toy or miniature dog in the suburbs. (In my own state of NY, a protection season for crows has existed for decades and foxes are "furbearers" and therefore under special safeguards) I hope I'm wrong,of course -but I ain't taking any bets on the long term survival of appropriate hunting in this country to control even vermin -much less the traditonal hunting of game animals and birds.