Just wondering if this has happened to anyone else--shot a desert muley Wednesday morning at 210 yards. The bullet (.277 130 grain Sierra fbsp) entered through the last 4 ribs on the left side and apparently blew up by the top (base) of the heart. This load averages 3150 fps in my rifle. I had one of these explode on a frontal shot on a smallish muley buck several years ago--but at 30 yards. Seems like there should have been an exit hole on the last one...hmmm....anyone with any similar experiences?

Good Hunting,

Andy, I've had Sierra bullets blow up on deer before as well (the first blowup in 1980), and I refuse to use them anymore for any hunting other than for varmints. They're too unpredictable for my purposes.

Better than the Sierra is the Hornady Inter-Loct, and better still is the Nosler Partition. These days, I mostly use Noslers for just about everything, deer included.

AD

Try the heavier 150 grain Sierra bullet. Seems to work much better at gettin exits on deer. They may not exit all the time(the 130's) but they kill deer quickly.

Andy - From my experiences with and around 270s, the 130 gr bullet is often pretty explosive. Never any great guarantee it won't explode unless you go to the extra cost of partitions or such. For this reason I've always felt 150 grs were a better choice for deer on up.

Looping back to your original question, Sierra is about my last choice of a bullet. I've shot their stuff over the last 45 years and ALWAYS found its performance erratic. Sierra bullets have always been accurate for me, but never dependable. Some calibers in Sierra bullets are simply terrible! The worst I have ever used is in 6mm. They may blow up or they may go thru almost like AP. Pot luck.

Standard Hornady bullets have always been reliable performers in everything for me. I'm NOT a Sierra fan.

Why not use the Nosler Partition.

ED

The .270 w/ 130gr pills is like a magnum cartridge. I'm not a .270 guy but if I were to use one, I would use the heavier for caliber bullets or "premiums".

[ 11-08-2003, 03:54: Message edited by: fredj338 ]

ACRecurve:

This year I shot an Antelope with my 6.5-06, and a Sierra 120 grain spitzer. The range was 120 yards, and the muzzel velocity was 3175fps. I recovered the bullet on the oft side, no exit, and it weighed 35 grains. I shot an elk a couple of years ago with one of my 270's and a winchester bullet, and all that was recovered was the jacket. I have shot game with Speer and Hornady soft points, (non premium bullets) and the results are almost always the same. They generally don't exit. I don't know if this is a bad thing, for one of these bullets properly placed is going to deliver all its energy to the target, point of impact. If an exit is what you need, shoot a Nosler Partition they are fabulous in the 270, and most other calibers as well, but they don't shoot on paper as well as the Sierra's.

Jerry

I don't want to have to worry about my bullet before I pull the trigger. I'll gladly give up a tiny bit of accuracy for repeatable, dependable terminal bullet performance. For me, taht has always been the NP.

Did you get the deer? I certainly hope so if the bullet "blew up" near it's heart. It certainly couldn't have went far after being hit.

Assuming it killed the deer, how much deader did you want it?

I wouldn't call it a failure.

It is not my purpose here to be or sound inflamatory, but there are no perfect bullets. Some that are good, some better, but none are perfect. Even the best bullet can fail.

Ive had the 375 300 gr Sierras come apart in elk more than once. Lost an elk once on a quartering shot I feel was due to lack of penetration with the 300 375s. Used them some years back in a 270 and if the yardage was beyond 200 they seemed to stay together but came apart usually under that. Same way with the 300 gr 375s. I use and like them for targets and varmints, but feel they are not for big game. Premium bullets like Barnes and Nosler offer way better performance, and the cost is not that much more since how many does one use in hunting big game.

Thanks for the input! Except for the 2 incidents I mentioned, the Sierras have always performed well for me on deer/antelope.

GLC,
Yes, I got the deer and he only ran about 30 yards before he died. The left lung and top half of the heart were gone---well, part of the lung was on the ground and part of it was in his mouth. He was about 7 years old, weighed 200-210 lbs (live wt.), had 5 points left side and 6 right side. His rack was about 20" wide and about 20" tall...nothing to write home about but will make a welcome addition to the freezer! Only found jacket fragments in the chest cavity. I guess I had come to expect an exit wound--I think even Remington 130 grain pspcl's would have exited. Anyway, it was a good one shot kill that ended his life quickly. I must have been fortunate in the past with the Sierras--about 20 dead deer and 18 with exit wounds. Will likely go to either Hornadys or NPs from now on for deer. The speed goats don't take much killing so the Sierras will do fine for them!

Good Hunting,

The ideal shot to take, is broadside, through the heart lung area. Like most hunting stories, where the wounded game animal got away, took a bullet that was not placed properly. I place the blame on poor bullet placement first, then bullet performance second. No game animal can survivie a well placed broadside shot into the heart lung area, premium or average. If that bullet releases all it's energy inside the animal so much the better. Never have used a Nosler partition bullet and my average hunting bullets do the job.

Some hunters seem to believe those better than average, so called, premium hunting bullets do perform miracles, that is just wishful thinking on their part. Nosler partiton bullets probably wound more game animals for that reason. The hunter thinks just because he has a Nosler partition bullet in his chamber, he can hit the animal anywhere at any angle in the body and the bullet will work it's magic, and that is just no so.

I've hunted for nearly 40yrs for Mule deer. Nearly all that time I've reloaded 130 gr 270 btsp's. It's true they sometimes come apart, but usually near the heart, taking lungs with them. I've never had a deer take more than a couple of steps before expireing and never wasted meat. I tried the new Barnes 140gr for an elk, and 2 deer hunts. The problem was a cal. hole in and a cal and a half out. If the bullet passes thru the animal much of the energy sails away with the exiting bullet. I thought I missed the elk, It had no reaction even with no heart, it ran several hundred yrds befor dying. I'll take Sierra any day of the week. (fav. load, 58gr H4831 with cci-200 primer, accurate and fast)

My observations..Many moons ago I shot a 300 mag, this was back before premium bullets were generally available. I would shoot at a local 100yd range with a railroad tie/gravel backstop. When shooting Sierras I would find their empty jacket cups in the gravel. Never happened with Hornadys, Speers or Remingtons. Obviously this was not a scientific test but it led me to avoid sierra bullets for game hunting.

40

I do not use them except for prairie dogs.

I think I'd be happy with that performance, heck, it only ran 30 yards! What more can you ask for? I use the same bullet, 100 fps slower, and had no troubles and good exits so far, your mileage obviously varies, but that isn't bad performance on a good sized deer. Congratulations!

Andy, if it were dangerous game we were talking about, I would get more excited. But a bullet that blows up in the vitals is just fine with me. They sure aren't going far after a bomb goes off between heart and lungs.

The bullet that worries me is the one that explodes on IMPACT.

About all you get with an exit wound on a deer is a lot of ruined meat.

Next year try some Hornady. You'll like um. Now go cook some venison.

I've shot many deer with a 270 win and 130gr Sierra's, they worked perfectly, but I was using a Manlicher 20" rifle muzzle velocity 2900 fps. In my 24" gun I use a Nosler 130gr solidbase, or a 150gr ballistic tip.

FWIW-Just finished cutting up the last of four mulies (2bucks & 2does) taken by my boys using gamekings (130gr .270 & 165gr 30-06) All were one shot kills, all broad side, all bullets exited the far shoulder or rib cage. I took my bull moose last year with 225gr gamekings out of my 35Whelen- quartering away through near side back ribs and out far shoulder with no bullet recovery. I don't know if lower velocity helps, but the 270 is @2900fps, the 30-06 @ 2700fps, and the whelen @2560fps. All 3 calibers also shoot 1" 5 shot groups at 100yds. I'll probably stick with what's worked. I'll also stick with taking good shots.

reloader66, yup. There ain't no magic bullets.

High impact vel. is always the culprit w/ the less than "perfect" bullets. I'll agree, that while there are no "perfect" bullets, there are better bullets for the job at hand (w/o getting into the SMK rift again). I have to travel too far, hunt too hard, for too short a time & spend too much money to shoot a bullet that works well on broadside ONLY shots. I'll stick to the better hunting bullets (ie, NPs), ones I know will get it done, like Ray A. said, I want complete penetration from any reasonable angle.

I have had great results with Sierra Gamekings and Pro-Hunters. Never a "blow-up" even out of a 7mm Rem Mag.

I don't see that deer are that hard to kill.

Shot placement is everything! A well placed shot puts meat in the freezer.

Sierra bullets have always performed well for me. I've used many different calibers and weights, but among my favorites for absolute consistent performance and textbook mushrooms are the 6mm, 80 grain SSPs in the medium-capacity wildcats in Contenders and XPs, the .30 caliber, 150 grain Pro-Hunter, which I am shooting at 2785 fps MV from a 20" .308 Win., the 6.5mm, 140 grain GameKing and the .277 caliber, 150 grain GameKing. Used properly, they've served me well for years. I've never experienced "blow-up" with these at all. Of course, the BTs work well for me also and generally exit, but then again, I keep the MVs under the 3000 fps mark and use them within the manufacturer's recommendations.

I killed a medium sized black bear with 165 Sierra GK out of a 308 Win this year. The first shot hit high and took out the spine and a second shot finished him off. I only found one bullet and it was a perfect textbook mushroom. I found some pieces of lead and jacket which was probably from the first bullet that hit the spine. Not much to complain about here. I would have had the same results no matter what bullet I was shooting.

I shot several boars (some nice) with a 300 Win. mag. and 220 RN Sierra bullets; I found them to be a little weak. They put down the boar very well but I see an exit hole only 50% of time and I often find the empty jacket inside the animals. The last 2 I shot (both dead) were 170/180 lbs. 40/50 meters away; I shot the first with a 45 degrees angle at the base of the neck, touching the spine, but no exit hole, only fragments of bullet under the skin of the opposite shoulder. The second broadside, in the shoulder, and found fragments of lead/jacket, under the skin of the opposite side. Only an average performance for a bullet that is designed for the biggest american game. Next season I will try the Hornady since I want an exit hole. - Lorenzo

55gr gameking out of 222rem @3100fps. Roe deer at 125yards. Bullet entered last rib hitting liver, gut, lung and came to rest under the skin on the fare shoulder weighing 49gr in a perfect mushroom. Deer dead in 15yards.

I am currently having terrible problems with Hornady 139gr blowing up on deer out of a 7x57. Will be trying 140gr sierras instead.

To settle this recurrent issue a look at Deer and Deer Hunting, December 1999 helps a great deal. In "Lethal Medicine, Which Bullets Work Best on Deer?" the "what done it to dead deer" was studied in a normative survey by wildlife managers in South Carolina. Of the 493 dispatched deer, here were the results:
The distance traveled by a deer hit by a "soft" bullet was 27 yards, whereas the length increased to 43 yards with "hard" (read premium) pills. Caliber? 6mm-40 yards, .25- 14 yards, .270-31 yards, .284-26 yards, .30-33 yards. So there you have it: CSI S. C. Who cares if the projectile comes apart inside a whitetail. A short walk bullet bomb is better than a long hike pencil hole.
In spite of all of this data, I have long prefered Nosler Partitions...until this year. I gave my son a Browning BAR in 30.06; to sight in the gun, I bought some cheap factory fodder: Federal Classic 165 grain Sierra Pro-Hunters. They were fabulously accurate. So I stuffed them in my New Ultra Light Arms green bean rifle. It shot cloverleafs! One deer later, I am a believer. My new recipe is a frangible projectile. To wit: from 60 yards away a monster 250 pound classic eight point put his wheels in the air after a 20 yard hike, having been hit just behind his heart, breaking both legs. There was a tiny exit hole, with two small lead fragments just under the hide. No Hollywood mushroom here, just one very big dead deer. If I had shot the thing with a super bullet, maybe it would still be going! But who cares. And at about $16 a box, why not?
Jack O 'Conner spent a lifetime worshiping the results of his 270 on thin skinned game...USING SOFT BULLETS. He had to be doing something right.

I hunt with Sierra GK and Pro-Hunter in several calibers (7x64, .300 Win Mag, .300 Win Mag & .338 Win Mag) and never recovered but 2 bullets. Here they are :

L: 80 m frontal shot on Muntjac with 160 GK, 7x64
R : 250 m frontal shot on Red Stag with 165 GK, .300 Win Mag
No other bullet would have killed them any deader...

Well, guess I'll jump in here too. I have shot Sierra 130SBT for many years in my 270. The load I used was around 2850 MV. Nearly all deer shot were blacktail in Oregon and shot under 100 yards, with one around 250-260 yards. Never did I have a lost animal, with only one running more than a few yards. That one made it nearly 50 yards before falling. It was a heart shot. Most deer were dead where they stood, literaly. Most were side shots with good exit holes of around 2-2.5 inches. Little to no meat was lost.

One animal I shot at 30 yards was facing me. Bullet took off two ribs on entry, traveled under the spine and lodged under the off flank skin. the recovered bullet was a picture perfect mushroom with only the boattail sticking out. I never weighed the bullet. It was the only recovered bullet and performed perfectly.

There will be times when ANY bullet will act wrong. Some unexplained lack of anticipated performance. Myself, I would rather have a bullet blow up inside than have one poke through without expanding. Less lost game, wounded animals.

Maximum damage on the inside will kill the fastest. I have seen Nosler Partitions act like varmint hollow points, and never touched bone! But the exit hole I actualy put my fist into and didn't get it "wet". that is a big hole!! I have never seen a Sierra come apart like that"premium" Nosler. No bullet will perform perfectly 100% of the time. Just have to choose a reasonable bullet for the game.

I had a Sierra GK blow up last year on an elk. Course it took out three vertabrae in the process.

NMwater,

Welcome to the AR Forums. Where 'bouts in NM are you? I'm in the desert SE part of the state.

Good Hunting,

Living in Roswell now. Have lived in Grants, Las Cruces, Alamogordo, and Albuquerque. Great State to live in. The biggest problem I'm having with Roswell is there are no mountains to look at on a daily basis.

Maybe no mountains in sight but you're just a hop, skip and a jump from Ruidoso and Cloudcroft--lots of great hunting within 1-2 hours of Roswell and lots of space to shoot right there. Oh yeah, there's pretty fair antelope hunting just outside town, too. Holler if you're ever in the Lovington area.

Good Hunting,

[ 11-13-2003, 04:53: Message edited by: ACRecurve ]

ACRecurve
As a matter of fact I'm starting my deer hunt tomorrow up near Cloudcroft. I work with a guy in the local rifle club so I'll have to check that out soon. I know the woods around Cloudcroft/Sunspot better than the Capitan and Ruidoso areas. My landlords family has some landowner antlope tags every year. If I don't draw out I can always see if they have one.

Okay, not that I am a physics guru, but that is what it boils down to. You can only expect soft metals like lead/copper to do so much. Tougher designs (a partition, locking rings, bonding, even cannelures, etc.) will help, but when a soft metal hits resistance with too much speed you risk less than satisfactory performance. I have found that impact (not muzzle) velocities over 2800fps start to push the limits of a lead/copper bullet (especially if you hit bone). I find that if I push the muzzle velocity too fast with a lead/copper bullet I am asking for lesser performance on closer (less than 150yrds) shots.

Mono's help, but they also have their limitations.

I try to keep impact velocity between 2200 (still provides hyrdodynamic shock)-2800fps (meaning muzzle velocity not much over 3000fps). I think this will do alot to optimize bullet performance. I think it is important to know the trajectory of your loads (in the field) and for big game I see no significant benefit by loading much higher than 3000fps.

As for pass-through I think someone said it was only good for meat destruction. Not true. Be patient and wait for a good broadside, then hit them tight behind the shoulder, it is GREAT for blood trail, which in some situations, will enable you to find that animal quicker resulting in less spoilage. If you can't be patient (which sometimes the situation does not lend well to), then you risk meat destruction regardless of whether you gut shoot it or break both shoulders.

Deke.

A light skin bullet design that performed the way it's supposed to? No bullet failure here. Though the 130gr might have been a little lite-probably a 150 gr would have been better?
Deer down and in the freezer. Good job!!

[ 11-17-2003, 21:32: Message edited by: Gunnut 45/454 ]