I just arrived home from my elk hunt and have taken yet another bull elk with the 300ultramag and 180gr ballistic tips.After a 100 yard heart shot the bull ran a few steps and collapsed.With my total now up to five elk and two moose using this combination I am convinced that the newer versions of the ballistic tips are much tougher than the older versions.With the results I have seen for myself I am having a hard time believing the same bullet could do so well on elk and moose yet fail on a deer as some people still claim.

Everyone gets lucky once in awhile.
Everyone gets unlucky once in awhile too.
Trigger

300 Ultra Mag and 100 yard shot.

Congrats on the successful hunt!

How was shot angle and penetration on these animals? Are you going to try out the Accubonds?

What was he 'posed to do, Orion?? Sneak away so he could make a "LASERED" 600 yard shot???

Orion 1-What is the problem with a 100 yard shot with the 300ultramag?I don't know about you but I take the shots that present themselves and am not able to choose the ranges that the animals appear at.I have taken elk and moose from 80 yards to 377 yards with the ultramag.
Steve y-The shots on these animals were quartering or broadside shots.I recovered one bullet that passed through the chest and offside shoulder of one elk and was found under the hide on the offside.The other bullets exited.This last elk travelled about thirty yards which is the furthest that any have travelled but my shot was a little lower than desired which may have been the cause.

I don't have a problem believing they work, I used a Remington Corelokt with great success on an elk last year. The rifle was a 338 WinMag that I got in a week before the hunt, all I had time to do was practice with factory loads and the Rem's were all I could find in a hurry.

I think the difference other people see with BT's etc. is shot angle. I had a good, near broadside, shot at about 110 yards and put it though the heart. I really wouldn't suggest it as a regular Elk bullet though, I still have concerns on how it would act if it hit a major bone.

I use the Hornady SST's and SP's more than any other bullet simply because my guns seem to like them. Also most of my hunting is for considerably smaller game such as whitetail, axis and antelope.

I've been using 6mm 70gn ballistic tips on roe and fallow deer and they have performed well.
Usually the little solid copper base comes to rest under the skin on the fallow which are bigger, about the size of a white tail, whereas with the roe, they just whizz through leaving a great messy wound channel.

I was surprised too...

Thanks for the BT report Stubblejumper, Im impressed. The ones I cut open seemed to be swagged together exceptionally tight. What were the exit holes and the recovered bullet like? Congrats on a successfull hunt.

The one recovered bullet weighed 77grains.The exit holes were actually smaller than I expected.The damage to lungs and heart was extensive but not nearly as explosive as with some of the early ballistip tips I killed deer with but then again those were lighter weight .257 and 7mm bullets not 180 grain .308".

nice shooting. maybe the bullets are tougher here in Canada or maybe the animals arent quite as tough as a souther whitetail that ways 100 pounds.

here is the bull

That is supposed to be Canada, where is the 8 feet of snow? the 40 below zero?

You weren't hunting in the Vancouver Zoo again were you??

Stubble: Your photo just proves a thought that hit me the other night. Good thing the bullets don't listen to what every one else says Instead they just go out and do the job they are suppose to, when the shooter can put them where they are supposed to go.

Super Congrats are in Order for a nice Bull.

Good job, stubble...makes me wish I'd applied for a elk tag..sakofan.

This is a 180 gr BT from a 300WM after hitting the neck of reindeer. It turned the neck into jelly and I was grateful that I did not try a heart shoot.
Its just one bullet, two pictures put together

Today I am using NORMA ORYX and they are great.

Stub, congrats on the bull. The BT isn't my bullet of choice, because of testing I have done, I won't hunt w/ them. In wet phone books I get just about the same weight retention as your recovered bullet. 40-45%% doesn't give me the confidence I want, so I hunt w/ NPs. Well done though.

Fred-I used to look at recoverd bullets but I recover so few that I have started to put the most emphasis on the results on the animal instead.In that area the ballistic tips do a fine job.

Nice job Stubblejumper!! but believe me, just as sure as I am setting here typing this I had a .284 150 grain ballistic tip bullet fail miserabely on a whitetail deer. I know for sure because I followed up with a second shot to the head and seen for myself what the first shot had "not" done.

I am glad to here that they are making them tougher now but my test results did not indicate that I would have such a failure from a bullet coming out of the same box as my test bullets but you know what they say, "First time, shame on you. Second time shame on me." That is the reason I will never use them again.

I have had the core and jacket separate on 7 deer that I have killed using 150 grain Nosler BT's. I do feel that they are adequate for deer, as none of them went more than 75 yards before giving up the ghost.

I do not think I will use them for elk unless Nosler strengthens the jacket as they did for the .338's.

How can one argue with success? I souldn't get thepicture to opne for some reason. Regarding the rifle/bullet selection, the 300 Ultra is a good choice. Conventional wisdom argues for a tougher bullet, but that's a personal choice. congrats on your elk. jorge

Stubble,

How new are these BT's? When I spoke to Nosler last year they did not recomend BT's in .308 and lower diameter for Elk. They said .338 and up worked well since the jackets were thicker.... Give Nosler a call and see what they think. As for now I will stick w/X's.

Deke.

My ballistic tips were purchased over the last few years and are much tougher than the older ones that I have used.Nosler would obviously not recommend them for elk and moose as then there would be no need for the accubond or partition.Use what you like and I will continue to kill my elk and moose with 180gr ballistic tips for as long as they continue to perform as they have so far.

Here we go again, BT bashing !!! I for one have had nothing but success with Nosler Ballistic Tips. Just ask any one of the 8 deer that I killed with them when I had my .270 !!! Never recovered one, they all passed through, even the neck shots that took out the spine always left a good quarter size exit wound, even at yardages as close as 75. Those were the 140 grainers at 2875 fps. Now if you want me to bash something, I'd be happy to tell you about the 180 Grand Slam from a .300 Mag I had that totally disintegrated, I'm talking lead dust here, when I hit a bone on an elk. Granted it was the spine, but I was picking lead the size of a pin head out of the front of the loins. That shot was at 175 yds. I'll never use a Speer GS again, just don't trust them. However, that doesn't mean that I would bash them. If they work for you, that's fine. On the other hand, the poor guy took an elk with a BT, the bullet obviously performed well. What more could he ask for ??? Gee, maybe he should have used a Barnes Solid intead so that if he dug it out of a tree after it passed through, it would still weigh 100% !!!!
Congrats on a good elk.

bowhuntr

I like reading this kind of thread. I've used BTs for some time but as of late I want an exit wound and the BTs didn't provide it.

Us handloaders are really blessed with a fine bunch of bullets to pick from....and now there's a few more bonded bullets....great!

Good going Stubblejumper! I will have to give those B.T's a try in my STW.

Solvi,
I am scratching my head in confusion after reading your post. There is alot of bone in the neck of an animal, even in the smallish reindeer. If you shoot an animal in the neck, that is the type of bullet performance I would expect. Shoot a few more reindeer with the same bullets. With a heart lung shot you will have no problems and you will ruin alot less meat.

Daryl

I wish I could use BT's for everything but I do not trust them. Seems to be a lot of inconsistancy in the results they yield.

Yukoner -I use the 140gr ballistic tips in my own 7mmstw's for deer,sheep and pronghorn.I wouldn't use them on bigger game though as they don't seem as tough as the 180gr .308" ballistic tip.My ballistic tip count is now over 30 head of big game without a bullet failure.

Stubblejumper,

I know what you are saying. I was thinking of caribou with the STW. Although I killed a grizzly a couple of years with a 150gr. B.T out of 7mmR.M. now that I think of it.

30 head of big game out of fast stepping calibers with out any failures says alot.

I will have to try some in my 30-338.

Daryl

Stubblejumper, Congrats!

I am continually amazed at the number of young hunters who believe that due to the development of monometal bullets game has suddenly become immune to any shot from any cup-and-core bullet.

One of the whitetails I took last season gave me a very high opinion of the current Ballistic Tip. The shot was from lesst than 50yd with a Winchester factory load 150gr Ballistic Silver Tip from my .300WSM. Entry at last ribs, exit between her forelegs. That was near 20 inches of penetration.

As a side note, I had occasion to call Nosler today, to cross reference load advice I got from Hodgdon Powder for the 180gr Ballistic Tip that has been molyed in .300WSM. It occurred to me to ask how much tougher the Ballistic Silver Tip is than the standard Ballistic Tip. The answer is that the two are the same with the exception of the lubalox coating on the BST and the color of the tip. If I recall correctly the tech who assisted me was Mike. The ambiguity on the Nosler website had many, myself included, believing the "thicker tougher jacket and harder core" claim was only refering to the Ballistic Silver Tip when in fact it refers to all Ballistic Tips with the exception of the varmint bullets.

RuffHewn:
I took the same shot (last rib to front ribs) on a 120lb spike 2 years ago and had the same results from a 140 gr BT out of a 7x57 at 30 yards. Its good to see others having the same results. I was beginning to wonder whether ballistic tips would only work in Alabama

When was it that they began to make them "tougher"? What year? Anyone know?

No offence, but I will not use Balistic Tips on anything except coyotes, and p-dogs.
I stick with Nosler partitions on all game animals regardless of caliber used.

Just the way I do it,,,,,,,

This is just my two cents. I think that the bullet weight with BT's is critical. The 180 grain is a far better choice than something lighter in .30 caliber. The added sectional density really makes a huge difference. A good friend of mine has done extensive torture testing of BT's and he thinks they are a very tough bullet also as long as long as people use the heavier weights.

Steve

well the 12 elk and 2 moose that i killed with my 243 and 95 gr BTs all were one shot kills and most of the recovered bullets were just the base of the bullet usually in the hide on the oppsit side all shots were under 150 yds also the plastic tip s were found somewhere in the meat

I have nearly 200 one shot kills using a 7mm Remington Magnum with 150 grain BTs on game up to and including game the size of Red Stag. All shooting was under 120 yards, and a bipod was used. I used to do the shooting for restaurants who needed venison for their menues. The shooting was done on a game preserve which supplied the game. All shots had to avoid hitting major bones as to prevent any blood shot meat. This meant all shots had to be broadside, and either behind the shoulder(lungs), or in the head. No animal ever went further than 50 or 60 yards. The most impressive was a fallow deer doe that took a step forward just as I squeezed off the shot. All 4 feet came off the ground and she flipped onto her back, dead. She had been hit in the liver, and it still resulted in an instant kill.

I too have had good luck with 180 grain BT's and the 300 ultra mag. A month ago I shot a muledeer at an honest 15 yards with the BT and it performed fine. The exit hole was the size of a silver dollar and the wound channel seemed pretty good to me. The shot went in through the ribs and out through ribs behind the shoulders.

I am not about to try and bust bones with them though. I have partitions for that kind of thing.

stubblejumper -- Congrats on a good Bull, that meat will be warming you on those cold Alberta nights this winter. I don't want you revealing your secret hunting spot, but if you could give me a general location, it would help me plan a possible future hunt in Alberta. I hunted near Robb for Wolfe last December and am looking at Moose or Elk someday. I like the idea of hunting Elk with a rifle up there during the rut. Good shooting.

[ 10-11-2003, 17:01: Message edited by: phurley ]

PHurley-I was hunting in the northwest part of the province close to the B.C. border.The weather was hot so the elk were not bugling but in four days I saw about 20 elk,250 mule deer,10 whitetails and 5 moose.The elk were in small bunches with the bulls separate from the cows.The mules were plentiful but I did not see any large bucks and took a smaller 5x6 nontypical.All of the moose were cows and calfs.We had four in our party and I took the only elk while two of the others took mule deer.Three other parties totalling 9 people from my workplace hunted the same general area the following week with better weather and there was some buging.They took two bull moose one bull elk,a cow elk and some mule deer.Overall this was not highly successful hunting in terms of numbers but it was the first time myself and my party had been in this area so we spent most of our time scouting out hunting spots.As well the other members of my party had never hunted elk before.One of the other parties(2 people) have hunted the area for several years and take an elk between them quite regularly.The rest of the people have hunted the area regularly for several years and have only taken one elk in five years between them but they are not really serious hunters and have not learned to bugle or how to hunt elk.This part of the province is rich in game and a hunter that knows the area and has good hunting skills will be very successful.I am confident that we will be bringing home more than one elk for our party in the next few years as we get to know the area better and my partners get more experience hunting elk.If you get a good outfitter you could certainly have a great elk and moose combination hunt.

[ 10-11-2003, 18:09: Message edited by: stubblejumper ]