I don't know how many of you carry medical kits with you when hunting, but for longer trips I think its a good idea.

Did you buy yours, or make it yourself?

What should every medical kit have?

Started with an REI Hiker or Backpacker kit.

Added more moleskin, better bandaids, tweezers, bandage scissors, 2 inch Ace wrap, Spenco blister kit, 15 gram tube Neosporin plus ointment, 2 inch stretch gauze, 2 tongue blades, Sting Eze, small bar soap, safety pins, quarters (for phone) scalple blades (2), hypodermic needles (3) for splinters etc, and unit packaged Benadryl, Pepto Bismol, and Immodium.

Has proved adequate over the past 6 - 8 years for any need.

I hunt all day. Mostley from a treestand. My back can sometimes just kill me. I always have tylenol or advil and have a couple bandaids but thats about it.

Three and a half years ago my brother and I did a remote 13 day drop camp in Alaska. For that trip I put together a great kit including Novacaine and sutures, enough stuff in my kit to take care of severe lacerations, burns,sprains, you name it. Still it is a small kit so it isn't left behind, thats the important thing is to make it small enough that it is convenient to have with you. Most all of my hunting I have a backpack on with other gear in it so a small First Aid kit is no problem.
I put my own together because most were full of band aids and bullshit, I made one to take care of the little scrapes as well as the big ones.
On the Alaska trip we also brought some whiskey cuz my brother said there was no way I would stitch him up without it.

Snellstrom,

The wiskey is a good idea.....a couple years ago I slipped and fell in my boat on a 3 day fishing trip. I knocked the hide off my shin realy bad and in three days away from home it got real bad.

When I got home my wife got me hammered drunk on rum and then scrubbed it super clean and it got well fast after that.


Before the cleaning. After 3 days of not takeing care of it.

This is the next day after the rum anesthesia wore off.

You know, I've got one, but having access to Novacaine is a good idea. I stitched a small slice up one time without it, and frankly the only reason I finished was because my two buds in camp would have never let me live it down if I hadn't finished, as it was I used 3 stitches instead of the 6 or 7 it probably needed. It was hard to do with tears boiling out of my eyes. Neither of my buds would do it, they said, let's just tape it up.....

Long story short, I was using a sewing needle I had in my archery tackle box, and some serving thread from in there too, didn't have those items in the first aid kit. I give myself a shot a week, so I'm pretty handy with the syringes nowdays, so I would put a kit together with Novacaine or whatever, is it available over the counter???

I would actually like to see a good list of what should be in a pretty 'serious' kit--I'm really not sure!

Well my methods of getting a kit together is not like most people but it is effective nonetheless.
I am comfortable with stitches as I've been around livestock most of my whole life and doctoring horses and the like and I've had more than my fair share of stitches installed on my body and am not squeamish in the least about blood and pain so I am very familiar with cleaning wounds and how to go about stitches as well. When I first started my kit I went to the Pharmacist and you should have seen the look on their faces when I asked for sutures, syringes and Novacaine!
What a bunch of city slicker homo's those people are.
I even checked with a Doctor who wouldn't help either, telling me the best thing to do would be to call for the professionals in a medical situation rather than to try and self medicate!
(This is after I explained to him the remote situation we would be in. You know Doctor's are just so much smarter than the rest of us so don't save yourself call a Doctor to do it for you!)
So I got the Novacaine from my Dentist and syringes and sutures from the Vet supply place. The sutures are the smallest and finest needles and thread available which will work great on human skin.
After the dirty looks and upturned noses from the Pharmacists I got all of my big wraps and gauze from the Equine Vet supplier as well. I added hydrogen peroxide, alchohol, iodine, burn cream neo-sporin, moleskin, duct tape, tylenol, forceps, super glue, tweezers etc. and the usual band aids and bullshit that all the other kits have.
If it would be a great help I could inventory my kit as I think it will handle just about any situation, granted you need to know how to improvise tourniquets, splints and the like as those things aren't in my kit.

Hey Ted, nice scrape on the old shin bone buddy!
Like you well know a clean wound is more important for healing than almost anything.

Everything but the Doctor...
I keep adding, and adding, and adding some more.
I now havetwo first aid kits that go along for the trip.

quote:

Posted 26 January 2009 16:58 Hide Post
Everything but the Doctor... Big Grin
I keep adding, and adding, and adding some more.

me 2

My hunting buddy is a paramedic but I usually carry about 2 rolls of guaze, a few bandaids, some asprin, and superglue. The superglue is much less painful than the stitches.

I have never needed anything more than a few asprin but I have seen the superglue used on cuts where 4 or 5 stiches would have been needed and it worked great. Long enough to get to a doctor anyway.

Storm,
To answer your question, I would consider the following essential:
tourniquet (with proper training)
antibiotic ointment
iodine
roll gauze
tape
splinting material/elastic wraps
small surgical kit with forceps, hemostat,etc.
broad spectrum antibiotic (with proper medical guidance)
Doxycycline in areas with endemic malaria


I carry this and some other things. IV fluids/tubing are good to have, but require a lot of space/weight. I would forget about Band-aids they are basically useless.

I would also forget about lidocaine/sutures unless you really know what you're doing. If your super smart like some people who post here you'll wisely ignore the guidance of physicians/pharmacist as you will already know that suturing a wound closed increases the risk of infection. When your hundreds of miles away from civilization in the Alaskan wilderness, it is probably better to have a wide ugly scar than to suture a wound closed and get an infection. I've seen several people die of infections that started as small scratches.

For splinting stuff, SAM spints are nice, and ortho-glass is even nicer if you can cut some and vacuum pack it as it hardens in air. Their are some nice kits available, but it is likely much cheaper to assemble the stuff on your own. Good luck! Hope you never need any of that stuff.

Wes

quote:

Originally posted by StormsGSP:
I don't know how many of you carry medical kits with you when hunting, but for longer trips I think its a good idea.

Did you buy yours, or make it yourself?

What should every medical kit have?

[QUOTE]I would also forget about lidocaine/sutures unless you really know what you're doing. If your super smart like some people who post here you'll wisely ignore the guidance of physicians/pharmacist as you will already know that suturing a wound closed increases the risk of infection. [/QUOTE

Come on Doc what do you think we are gonna run around the woods stitching every little dirty wound up?
Spoken like a true smarter than everyone doctor!.
So in your opinion if you have a severe laceration that you can't stop the bleeding and can't tourinquet or can but can't insure that you can get flown out in the next several days what does a guy do? The whole mentality of stay put and someone will be there to help you doesn't work if you are out in the bush and weather is bad enough that nobody is flying for a week. I know I am a dumbass redneck but I'm just barely smart enough to know that I'm not about to let someone die in front of me without trying something and if that something means stitches then I'll try that whether or not it meets with your approval. I've stitched and helped stitch enough Horse injuries to understand what I'm talking about and not one of those horses died a horrible death from infection. Yeah doc I know horses aren't people but they aren't that much different if you really think about it.
Not asking for your approval but just maybe you can crank down the indignance and see where I'm coming from.

By the way if you are travelling around Iraq as your tagline says then I will thank you for your service to our country and God bless you.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by WESR:
I would also forget about lidocaine/sutures unless you really know what you're doing. If your super smart like some people who post here you'll wisely ignore the guidance of physicians/pharmacist as you will already know that suturing a wound closed increases the risk of infection. [QUOTE]

Compression, butterfly bandages, tape, or staples would be preferable to sutures IMO but these alone may not stop bleeding and can be dangerous. And yes, a wound shouldn't be closed unless thoroughly cleansed and/or irrigated. It's not "first aid." Suturing, drains, etc should probably be left for the hospital.

But everyone should know how to stop bleeding, bandage a wound, etc. Suturing a wound that is bleeding copiously may not stop the bleeding. Compression, tying off a blood vessel, or a product like QuickClot prior to closure will usually be effective.

A basic first aid kit used with initiative and imagination will usually be more effective than a trauma kit used inappropriately.

BTW - Most health care providers I have worked and hunted with will not intentionally post treatment advise that would be harmful if used.

From a pharmacist and well-trained combat medic.

This thread is a good idea. I realize that I have been carrying around mostly useless stuff that dates to the last time I took first aid as a Boy Scout in the 1960s. For God's sake, we were still being taught in those days to make X cuts on snake bites and suck out the venom, and to use tourniquets at the drop of a hat.
The stuff available now -- even the Super Glue -- makes so much more sense. I even see "EMT sprays" in the dog aisle for lacerations that would probably be worth carrying. I need to do some homework.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
This thread is a good idea. ...
The stuff available now -- even the Super Glue -- makes so much more sense. I even see "EMT sprays" in the dog aisle for lacerations that would probably be worth carrying. I need to do some homework.

+1

I had a friend that guided for elk and ran dogs for mountain lion in CO in the 80's.

He said in his experience, injuries ran like this, in order of decreasing frequency

1. Out of shape, chronic medical conditions flared, mild altitude problems, just feel bad

2. boo boos, scrapes, blisters (usually from new boots bought special for the big trip), minor lacerations, minor ankle twists

3. burns. city slickers playing in the campfire and getting 1st and 2nd degree burn screwing around

4. bad lacerations from screwing around with a knife either playing or dressing elk

5 'major trauma' requiring trip interuption.....bad ankle sprain you cant walk on, ankle fracture, crushed pelvis from horse rolling over (this was actually him! had to be air evaced out, lucky to be alive) No GSWs in his experience.

Also for international travel
http://wwwn.cdc.gov/travel/yel...okCh2-HealthKit.aspx

Plan accordingly

I have a pretty good kit in my truck, It has the usual 3-4 types of bandaids, ointments, disifectants etc. I then suppliment it with a couple of handfulls of 4x4 gauze bads, two big rolls of curlex gauze, two triangular bandages that can be use for a sling or turnoquete, (yea I know, spelling)tape, scissors, a few prescription painkillers, antihistamines, and pseudoephedrine. DW

It's spelled "Tourniquet" and a GOOD first aid kit will include one in a little box.

There are also nylon velcro straps intended for typing small items in place that can be used to good effect for stopping bleeding at the extremities.

I will discuss the "less than obvious"

Carry Aspirin as well because if a buddy needs it's blood thinning properties there is no substitute... heart attack or stroke it is the first thing you should reach for after you have dialed 911.

Carry TWO bottles of maximum strength oragel (20% Benzocaine) it is useful for a lot more than toothaches
(for other anesthetic purposes you can ignore the pina-colada flavor and artificial sweetner)

And I'll post a strong second on carrying superglue, two sealed tubes, but I'll add that you need a small "travel size" bottle of nail polish remover for when you get it somewhere you don't want it...
Imagine how stupid you'll feel after gluing the two sides of a wound closed then discovering you've glued one or more fingers to the sides of the wound at the same time.

Don't be embarrassed, be prepared.

and here's a recommendation from a former girlfriend...
She had been working in an ER during her residency
and a patient with a gunshot wound came in.
He had been with his girlfriend when he had been shot.

His girlfriend thinking fast about how to stop the bleeding had inserted a plastic applicator style tampon in the wound.
it had STOPPED the bleeding and in the opinion of all medical personel present had unquestionably saved her boyfriend's life.

she had hear the phrase "tamponading the wound"
on an episode of ER and had entomologically
"connected the dots"... smart girl.... with a cool head.

My former girlfriend the doctor also commented that the kind that expands into a conical shape work better for some bullet holes than the ones that expand in other directions, but she recommended carrying both kinds (it's not like you are going to use them for anything other than a bullet hole) I don't recall the brands offhand, but there are pictures on the package.
She actually carried two different types that she did not actually use (knowledge I have like every guy has from being sent to the store) in her black medical bag that all doctors seem to have somewhere
Generally FAR more effective than "direct pressure" and leaves your hands free for other things (like dialing 911!)

and if a woman in your hunting camp has an "emergency" you'll never find another woman as grateful without saving a woman from a rapist or being eaten by a bear..

More recently a girlfriend expressed a need to stop at a pharmacy and I just handed her what she actually needed
(it was in my hunting vest pocket) curiosity on her part of why it was there prompted an explanation from me. I simply said: "have you considered that one of those could be useful in plugging a bullet wound?"
She asked:
"Where did you get THAT idea, as if I didn't know?"
I answered: "She who cannot be named..."
I was informed that no further explanation was necissary

If you need one for a bullet wound you will likely need it FAST, so don't hid it where you can't get to it
I make it a point to adopt good ideas regardless of source.

I carry a spare (recently charged) battery for my cell phone in my first aid kit. IN ADDITION TO the OTHER spare cell phone battery.

Another potentially odd item to carry is non-lubricated condoms, there are entire books written about uses for them that do not involve installing them where they are designed to fit. there are smaller versions called "Finger Cotts" that can be used to advantage to cover injuries
(particularly burns) to the fingers or to keep wounds to the fingers relatively dry in wet conditions.

And a condom can be stretched and twisted and used as a Tourniquet

They can of course be used more conventionally

Latex or nitrile gloves can also be useful.

Hell, every mechanic I know keeps a box of nitrile gloves on top of their toolbox. it really cuts down on the ammount of scrubbing you must subject your hands to when constantly switching back and forth from "dirty" to "clean" operations

No not Latex, some people are actually allergic to latex and latex does not react well if you get petroleum onto it.
(they tend to disintegrate)
I consider them mandatory for field dressing.

I have a question.

Where would you suggest looking for the necessary training?

Out of University, I worked in the offshore oil industry. Part of the compulsory training for working offshore was basic first aid and CPR.

However, the strapping up / immobilizing broken limbs etc, stopping bleeding, cleaning wounds is something else.

I think it is useful knowledge and would be beneficial for the greater good. Just imagine if your horse or dog obtained a deep cut in the field? There is far too much barbed wire around the place in England for my liking.

Maybe, you could approach a local vet and learn to clean and stitch up wounds?

quote:

Originally posted by robthom:
I have a question.

Where would you suggest looking for the necessary training?

Out of University, I worked in the offshore oil industry. Part of the compulsory training for working offshore was basic first aid and CPR.

However, the strapping up / immobilizing broken limbs etc, stopping bleeding, cleaning wounds is something else.

I think it is useful knowledge and would be beneficial for the greater good. Just imagine if your horse or dog obtained a deep cut in the field? There is far too much barbed wire around the place in England for my liking.

Maybe, you could approach a local vet and learn to clean and stitch up wounds?

robthom,

In the UK there are quite a few places that run courses on survival/expedition medicine that covers all that sort of thing. Have a look around http://www.bushcraftuk.com/ and maybe ask on the forums there.

As for stiching up your dog, I've seen a vet staplegun recommended as it makes the whole process easier and less traumatic for both the dog and you...I don't think they are particularly expensive either...You could possibly use google to find a vets supply place and then start searching from there..

Regards,

Peter

I carry asmall first aid kit when ever I go out stalking...Its not designed to deal with major problems, but rather the more mundane and common such as minor knife cuts, blisters, jippy stomache ect.



In my vehicle, I carry a more extensive first aid pack (including a small first aid manual)

I also have another kit which is midway between the two with I take away on holiday ect...

The one item I have used quite afew times over the years and which the sufferers have been very pleased I've had along is Oil of Cloves for dealing with toothache..

Regards,

Peter

Pete,

Thanks for the information / link. I have not heard of them before.

Staples?

Then again, I have personally seen a Geordie Derrick man sew up his lacerated finger using a sewing needle and black cotton thread.

He did at least 'clean' the wound first using industrial strength alcohol, the stuff we used to degrease - clean our instruments...

They were on a bonus if there were n't any lost time incidents.

A former hospital Senior Nurse, just below doctor level, working ofshore, told me that Superglue can be used to hold the sides of a wound closed....

There was a highland stalker that got shot a few years back by a guest.

They were crawling forward and the guest had a negligent discharge of his (?) .30-06. The bullet entered around the bottom / hip area and came out the top the poor man's collar bone / shoulder area.

Miraculously, the bullet did not trash any really important organs, and he survived the incident. I believe the poor man is still alive today but is not in a good way: permanently disabled.

Allan: You have a lot of girlfriends! And thank God, as your doctor-GF gave some good advice. I had heard of carrying a regular feminine napkin as a sterile dressing, but the tampon makes even more sense, especially for hunters.
Pete: What is the white sugar for?
Also, you might want to update your Men of Harlech link. I was all prepared to hear it again ...

quote:

Originally posted by robthom:
Pete,

Thanks for the information / link. I have not heard of them before.

Staples?

Then again, I have personally seen a Geordie Derrick man sew up his lacerated finger using a sewing needle and black cotton thread.

He did at least 'clean' the wound first using industrial strength alcohol, the stuff we used to degrease - clean our instruments...

They were on a bonus if there were n't any lost time incidents.

A former hospital Senior Nurse, just below doctor level, working ofshore, told me that Superglue can be used to hold the sides of a wound closed....

There was a highland stalker that got shot a few years back by a guest.

They were crawling forward and the guest had a negligent discharge of his (?) .30-06. The bullet entered around the bottom / hip area and came out the top the poor man's collar bone / shoulder area.

Miraculously, the bullet did not trash any really important organs, and he survived the incident. I believe the poor man is still alive today but is not in a good way: permanently disabled.

IIRC Superglue was deveoped for use in the medical field as an alternative to stitches.

One of the benifits is that wounds closed with this method typically show less scarring after they've healed.

I m not sure if conventional off-the-shelf superglue would work if the wound is in anyway wet though? And as previously mentioned, unless the wound has been cleaned properly, you do run the risk of effectively sealing in a developing infection.

If you were to close a wound with improvised stitches or steristrips at least when you got to A&E, the Docs could easily remove them if required. On the other hand, if you did manage to get superglue to stick and used it to close a deep laceration, I would imagine it would give the Doc's at A&E fits if they needed to open it up again...

As with a lot of this sort of thing, hard and fast rules are difficult. Actions that are acceptable and perhaps life saving say out in the wilds of Alaska are perhaps not warrented if you are only are 45 minutes away from an A&E Department.

With reagards the shooting incident, I know somebody who has stalked on that estate, and knew the guy concerned. After listening to the story of the incident, it was a miricle he survived but as you say I believe he's still in a pretty bad state.

Regards,

Peter

I carry mine in a plastic drywall compound bucket (gallon size)

Latex gloves in a zip lock.
Superfine tweezers.
curved and straight forceps large and small.
Needle holder (driver)
Scalpel and blades
Suture packs
2x2 4x4 and roll gauze
4 ounces betadine
4 ounces alcohol
cephalexin
Doxycycline
sterile eye wash.
non steroidal eye ointment.
bandaids (they do keep small messed down)
ace bandage for use as tourniquet
black electric tape roll
super glue
iris scissors.
sulfadizide
nylon cord
adhesive tape
vet wrap
syringes and needles
wet naps.
cotton padding

That's most of it as I remember, The plastic can keeps it together and dry. It goes on the river for trips bungeed to the canoe thwart, it lives in my car trunk most of the year.

The most important part of any kit is the training that a competent person puts between your ears. Knowing what to do, knowing when to do it, knowing what not to do, and most important of all, knowing what it is you don't know are the things that turn a problem into an inconvenience or a bigger problem with some urgency to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Allan: You have a lot of girlfriends! And thank God, as your doctor-GF gave some good advice. I had heard of carrying a regular feminine napkin as a sterile dressing, but the tampon makes even more sense, especially for hunters.
Pete: What is the white sugar for?
Also, you might want to update your Men of Harlech link. I was all prepared to hear it again ...

I only actually mentioned one (the same one) though more than once.

The Victim's girlfriend (and the victim himself)
was someone I never met and the event that inspired the knowledge happened more than a decade before I met her.

As for the conversation that led to it when my GF was complaining about the lack of certain items in my firstaid kit, which SHE took measures to correct only mentioned those events
in support of other reasons for having things I simply hadn't thought of keeping around.

But when you hear a good idea you may remember it, when you hear a good WEIRD idea it really sticks with you.

as for superglue I had an ER doc use the stuff to glue a seriously injured finger back together with the stuff, ANY ER has super glue
and in addition they have the solvent for it as well.

Classically "Acetone" is used but the local ER uses Ethyl Acetate because it's less toxic and just as effective, infact nail polish remover regardless of that distinctive "Acetone smell" is more often than not Ethyl Acetate for the same reason.

Sugar has some alternate uses but for the basic use as teating low blood sugar, not only for a diabetic who has inadvertantly overdosed himself with insulin, one of the most common reasons for a headache is low blood sugar, a few hard candies would be better but hard candies cannot be sprinkled on an abrasion to (believe it or not) speed healing, relieve pain, reduce scarring and actually as an antiseptic.

Sugar plays nasty games with osmotic pressure and literally sucks the water out of the single celled beasties killing them.

It also draws fluid from the wound and fluid LEAVING the body (provided it isn't a massive loss is a good thing because bleeding washes away infectious bacteria.

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