I guess I am going on a whitetail hunt in this area (Sweetwater, Texas). The ranch is around 17,000 acres, covered in cedar, mesquite, and oak. I got invited and said I would go, but I don't have a clue what to expect.

In general, what can I expect for size on whitetails in this area? Is much of this area high fenced? Will the bucks be rutting at all for the 2nd week of December?

Thanks

This is the Texas Parks & Wildlife page on rut in Texas whitetail. It shows rut dates by area and includes a map.

I think what you will see depends on how the ranch is managed. I am not aware of a lot of high-fenced ranches in the area but lately they are showing up everywhere.

If the ranch is well-managed there should be a fair number of deer with buck in the 120 to possibly 140 gross range, perhaps a bit better with excellent management or protein feeding. It is not in the heart of the biggest-buck region.

Hopefully someone who hunts out that way will chime in with better information.

The area with the heaviest deer concentration around Sweetwater is to the south, toward San Angelo. This is transitioning into the Edwards Plateau, where deer tend to be smaller, but the Rolling Plains area around Sweetwater is capable of producing some pretty good bucks.

There are very few high fences in the area, so you'll likley be hunting on low-fenced property. Some hunting is done spot-and-stalk, but blinds and feeders are more typical.

As to "the rut", it is largely a fiction in Texas. Unlike more northern climates where if the young are born too early or too late they are endagered by severe weather and lack of forage, southern deer have about as good survival chances born anytime from early spring through late summer, thus whitetails have adapted. Deer start to breed in October and breed all the way into March of some years. There are more and less active periods thoughout these months, but it is pointless to try to "time" them.

Do you know the name of the ranch -- I might be able to tell you a little more. 17,000 acres sounds a little like the Double Heart. If so, you'll see an incredible number of wind generator towers sewn across the landscape.

Thanks for the replies. We will be South of Sweetwater and the ranch is "managed" whatever that means. The rest of the group has kind of kept me in the dark on the hunt. I am cutting another hunt short to go, so I was just wondering what to expect.

MC, My brother is on a hunt down there right now, and I have hunted the Bowen ranch there myself. The better managed ranches can produce some 150 class whitetails, but the average is quite a bit less in reality. The body size is small by northern standards, so they look tremendous. It is a nice area full of rattlesnakes, and is home to the snake roundup if not mistaken. Enjoy the time afield.

quote:

Thanks for the replies. We will be South of Sweetwater and the ranch is "managed" whatever that means.

It is likely a ranch that has qualified for the "managed lands" program. This means that the state has approved a management program for the ranch, so the ranch rather than the state "mananges" the game (which is lawfully a state resource). In practice, this means that a biologist recommends the number and sex of deer to be killed and there is great latitude with the ranch management of how and when to take these deer. Typically, managed lands will have a minimum doe kill requirement to keep the herd balanced and will have rigid quotas on the buck kill. If the management program is effective, there will be a better population of mature bucks present on the property.

Be sure to duck when you walk underneath those windmills. Rattlesnakes will only be a problem if the weather is unseasonably warm. I grew up 20 miles from Sweetwater and would recommend something special to do or see while you're there, but since the drive-in movie and the skating rink closed, I just can't think of anything.

You guys are great. Windmills and rattlers, huh? I don't really care for either. They told me I didn't have to sit over a feeder, but it sounds like I will be sitting over some snakes...... Where can I buy AntiVenom?haha I am sick of the windmills around here on our winter range. I can't imagine hunting around them.

Well, I arrived home from the Texas hunt over the weekend. It was actually a lot of fun and a decent experience. I shot a good buck, almost 6 inch bases, 6x5. They said he was the biggest deer that had been killed on the ranch in 6 years and the oldest and largest body they had ever killed. The ranch was very well managed as they only hunt 20-25 guys per year on it. The deer had very nice markings on their cape and, with their small features, will make very nice mounts.

You guys were right, the deer there are very small body wise and extremely skittish. The ranch we were on was not high fenced, but very fair chase. Lots of deer seen and as was stated before, many windmills dot the area. Luckily the rattlers were in their dens with the low temps. The morning I shot my buck the temp was 14 degrees with a 20 mph wind to take the chill even lower.

Thanks again for the info you all shared.

quote:

Originally posted by MC:
Well, I arrived home from the Texas hunt over the weekend. It was actually a lot of fun and a decent experience. I shot a good buck, almost 6 inch bases, 6x5. They said he was the biggest deer that had been killed on the ranch in 6 years and the oldest and largest body they had ever killed. The ranch was very well managed as they only hunt 20-25 guys per year on it. The deer had very nice markings on their cape and, with their small features, will make very nice mounts.

You guys were right, the deer there are very small body wise and extremely skittish. The ranch we were on was not high fenced, but very fair chase. Lots of deer seen and as was stated before, many windmills dot the area. Luckily the rattlers were in their dens with the low temps. The morning I shot my buck the temp was 14 degrees with a 20 mph wind to take the chill even lower.

Thanks again for the info you all shared.

Congratulations on a nice buck! Did I miss the pictures?

Sounds like a great hunt. That area of Texas has produced some nice bucks.
Charles, with all due respect to you, I doubt seriously that Texas Parks and Wildlife has an accurate handle on this years rut. It's been strange this year for some reason. At least in the Brownwood area every thing seems to be running late.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan Campbell:

Charles, with all due respect to you, I doubt seriously that Texas Parks and Wildlife has an accurate handle on this years rut. It's been strange this year for some reason. At least in the Brownwood area every thing seems to be running late.

Their data is certainly not from this year, just a guidline to go on generically.

My take at least for South Texas is that it pretty much happens the same time every year, but the concentrated daylight activity is only seen when the weather and moon conditions are right. But that is just my personal view.

quote:

Originally posted by MC:
... I shot a good buck, ...

Hey MC, Congratulations on the fine Buck.

What did you use? How `bout some "details" of the hunt?

Glad you had success, MC. I hunted north of the Sweetwater area over the weekend of the 9th-10th and activity was very slow. It's funny how deer can just "stop" all of the sudden, then "start" again for reasons that aren't readily apparent to us humans.

We'd love it if you could post a picture of your deer!

I am not a great story teller---so here is a brief story. I was going to try and shoot my buck with my muzzleloader. We hunted various ways... spot and stalk (very difficult in dense cedars), pushing canyons, saw some good deer, and waiting on trails. The morning I shot my deer was the 4th day of the hunt of the 5 day hunt. I was sitting under a cedar tree, planning on watching a sidehill for the morning hunt. I had my 50 cal muzzleloader and my 280 rifle with me (at the request of the guide in case the muzzleloader "failed to fire"). I was watching a 3x4 and a spike work along a sidehill. I could hear a buck rubbing in a dense thicket. He went on beating up the trees for almost an hour before he showed himself, coming down to push the other bucks. As he came thru, I tried to get on him with my ml, but he never offered a decent shot. Then the buck left and I thought I might not see him again. A couple minutes later he came back out to harrass the smaller bucks, which he moved off and then followed. Once again I could not get on him because of his movements and dense trees. After he left the second time, I figured the jig was up.... But he decided to make one more pass to head back toward his scrapes. I decided that the rifle was good enough so I drilled him at 80 yards. The buck actually stopped for a perfect broadside shot, which I may have made if I had kept my ml in hand. I think the guides were almost as happy as I was. The hunt was a lot different than our Western hunts.

I don't have a clue how to post pictures. I just wanted to update and say thanks for those who posted and pm'ed me, answering my questions.

If you email me some pictures I will post them for you. My email address is in my profile.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles_Helm:

quote:

Originally posted by Ryan Campbell:

Charles, with all due respect to you, I doubt seriously that Texas Parks and Wildlife has an accurate handle on this years rut. It's been strange this year for some reason. At least in the Brownwood area every thing seems to be running late.

Their data is certainly not from this year, just a guidline to go on generically.

My take at least for South Texas is that it pretty much happens the same time every year, but the concentrated daylight activity is only seen when the weather and moon conditions are right. But that is just my personal view.

I am with Charles on this one. In most every area, the rut will not change. Ones own personal experience may effect their IDEA of when the rut is in their area. But it does not change.

For example, my deer rut like clockwork on the week of Thanksgiving. I will see activity early and late though. The amount of activity I personally view pre or post rut, may effect my OPINION of when the rut is.

Despite my opinion, the rut is still dang near set in stone.

A full moon or hot weather at the peak of the rut may reduce deer activity in the daylight. Possibly after the peak, if a cold snap comes in, you will view more activity after the rut making you think that the rut was late. Not so. You just didn't see any activity when the rut was at it's peak.

The vast majority of does will come into heat at the same time +/- a few days. Makes no difference if you are in the woods to see it or not

Wendell:

Not to be argumentative, but if THE rut is so regular, why do you see fawns born over a span of several months?

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Wendell:

Not to be argumentative, but if THE rut is so regular, why do you see fawns born over a span of several months?

Not all does are bred the first time, although a majority are. The ones not bred cycle again (21 days if I recall correctly) and then again if they are missed that time. Also, younger does coming into heat the first time are frequently late as well.

Well stated, Charles, and you make my point.

The deer breeding season in Texas starts when the first does come into heat and lasts until the last one is successfully bred. This covers a span of several months. There are periods of greater and lesser activity from October through January, and sometimes beyond. Deer gestation is approximately 6 months. If you get newborns in August, then somebody was still "rutting" in February.

"Timing" the rut in Texas is a matter of luck. Most of us hunt when we have the time. You roll the dice and take your chances as they come. If you happen on a period when the weather is on the chilly side, the moon is not full, the wind is reasonbly calm, and there are a number of does in heat, then your opportunities are generally enhanced.

Acutally in a healthy herd most of the does come in at the same time. Where I hunted in South Texas that was December 13th or so. The ones who were not bred in that frantic period cycled again, and the late bloomers (older doe fawns) came in later as well.

There are parts of Texas where it starts in October, but not in South Texas. If you do not see concentrated activity it is usually because of the health of the herd, the buck-doe ratio, or the weather conditions.

Bear in mind that once it starts the bucks and does are off in the brush piared off. The highest buck activity may be pre- and post rut. Pre-rut because they are setting up scrape lines and constantly checking doe aggregations to find the first hot doe, and post because the dedicated bucks are slogging all over the place to find the stragglers.

I have seen multiple bucks chasing a hot doe at this time (more than once) and more than a dozen different bucks check a creek bottom where a hot doe had been in the same morning.

You will not see that in October in South Texas, and in February or late January you will be lucky to see any of it.

My friends who hunt South Texas definately prefer mid-December through January for the best opportunity at bucks -- due to the normal peak of breeding activity and for a variety of other reasons. In the Hill Country and North Texas, it is not at all uncommon for some does to enter estrus in October. Certainly the higher the buck-doe ratio, the less chance there is for a doe in estrus to go unbred and come in again in a later cycle. But there are also does that come in earlier and does that come in later naturally.

The "rut" that everyone talks about is actually the peak estrus activity of does in a given area. Referring to N. Central and N. E. Texas, it is usually about the last week to 10 days of November. It gets later further South, I understand around the first to second week of December S of San Antonio, for example. In fact, some does, usually the older ones, in come in 28 days earlier than the peak. And there is a third spike of activity 28 days after the main rut of November, but it is not nearly as pronounced as the peak. While I don't have the statistics from Kroll's book in front of me, something on the order of 30 to 40% of does are bred during the peak rut, in this area, the 10 days around the end of November, there are some does coming "in" (BTW "in" that is, being actually breedable, only lasts about 24 hours for does....must be related to some of my ex-wives )all the time from about the end of Oct until early January. It is basically a contiuous line with multiple bell curves with a small peak in Oct, a big one in November, and a smaller one in December. That's why you have does with varying ages of fawns.

Finally, I certainly agree with Ryan Campbell's observation above that, in my area of NE Tx, this has been the strangest ruts I've seen. Possibly because of the mini-heat wave we had at the peak time in November, but we have not seen the normal "crazy" buck activity that we normally do.