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Just a different viewpoint: Is it really possible to validate bullet 'failure' if the bullet was indeed recovered? Might it be more appropriate to say that the bullet did not perform as expected or as designed? I don't mean to split hairs but to me bullet failure is a nonrecovered animal, and even then, it is just a guess whether it is my error or the bullet. Maybe an exception is if more than one shot was required.

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Certainly you can validly claim bullet failure if the animal is recovered. Two examples are if a bullet designed to expand simply does not, and if one that is designed not to expand does. The results of either scenario may the outfitter visiting you in the hospital telling you "Good news! You made a beautiful shot and right after that buff gored and stomped you the bullet didn't fail caused he died and we recovered him."



The old saw "at what point in the animals death did the bullet fail" can be likened to "at what point in stopping the vehicle did your brakes fail?"



Well, if your brakes should stop you in 200 feet and they took you 300 into an intersection where you were T-boned they failed even though they stopped the vehicle.



IMO any product that doesn't perform as designed has failed.



As to the original post only two:



130gr W-W Hollowpoint .270 Win approx 3000fps mfg circa 1960; whitetail buck; about 65yds no apparent expansion, three shots in three inches broadside through shoulders; animal recovered.



165gr Nosler BT first year on market. .30/06 near book max velocity. Whitetail doe directly facing about 30 feet; no obstructions; shooting braced sitting position at ground level for center of chest. Shot called good; Light blood trail increased rapidly. Jumped her standing at shot+15 min about 75yds from POI. At this location much blood on ground but no apparent organ blood. Jumped her again 150 yds. furthur at about shot+35min. By this time blood was coagulated and very little where she lay. She crossed creek and I could find no blood on other side nor did area search recover the animal.



I had an interesting 15yd downward-angle shot on a whitetail doe last year with a 165gr Partition from a .308 Win. :



A very sharp angle away presentation- I put the bullet on perhaps the last true rib (right-hand side). A sheet of skin about the size and shape of my forearm was peeled off neatly exposing three or four ribs and the upper right foreleg was nearly severed. Apparently the nose section had simply glanced up the outside of the ribcage and hit the foreleg.



Just in front of the left foreleg was a dime sized hole where I presume the base exited after passing through vitals. Recovered the doe about 60 yds away. I can only wonder if an unbonded cup/core bullet would have entirely skipped off her ribcage or would have penetrated.



Of course I don't consider this as a failure (as the NP nose jacket is drawn very thin and designed to be fragile.

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Unfortunately, one deer didn't keep still so I had to use a knife to kill the buck that my friend shot in the butt (left bullet in photo). The rest did die shortly after impact.

The concern was if the bullets were to be used for larger game or angling shots at larger game, then there might not be enough penetration.

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Be very specific if you have an incident where your bullet failed to perform...caliber, velocity, bullet, hit location, angle of shot, size of deer....

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Just a different viewpoint: Is it really possible to validate bullet 'failure' if the bullet was indeed recovered? Might it be more appropriate to say that the bullet did not perform as expected or as designed? I don't mean to split hairs but to me bullet failure is a nonrecovered animal, and even then, it is just a guess whether it is my error or the bullet. Maybe an exception is if more than one shot was required.



The only example I have that may be considered a 'failure' is when I shot a whitetail buck/218lb dressed. 130 yards broadside. Load/Equip.: Ruger factory 270 MKII, 150 Speer Spitzer over max load of IMR4831, WWbrass, FED210M primer, velocity-2720. Bullet hit perfect behind shoulder, deer dropped and didn't move. Bullet was recovered on offside skin right behind shoulder. Lead and jacket were separated but when put back together, perfect mushroom.



BUT HEY, I GOT THE DEER!! My expectations of the load were not met. I expected a passthrough at that range with that bullet wt and a max charge. However, there are those that would state "your bullet failed."



Quite frankly, I don't give a crap if the bullet shatters into 500 pieces as long as the animal is dead and dead quick.



I have a report from a hunting buddy from South Dakota. He killed a 300+lb sow blackbear with a 7STW using 140 Ballistic Tips over near max IMR7828 at 30 yards. Bullet fragmented all over the kill zone. BUT HEY, SHE DIED RIGHT THERE!! No exit hole (obviously).



I guess you could say that this bullet really failed. OR DID IT?

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Were we just arkansawing the poor bastard hoping to connect?

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Hey, I thought it was Texas?? (Texas heart shot?)

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The Texas heart shots not a high percentage shot? Now what the hell does that mean? It is probably the quickest killing shot that I know of, other than brain or spine... It tears up the heart lung area, along with whatever else that gets in its way like liver, stomach, spine or whatever..

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The only fault was overestimating the penetrating power of the 180gr. Accubond, which even Nosler will retest after seeing our results on deer. Maybe next year we'll try the TSX or Partition etc...



So there! hahahah

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Whoa Beemanbeme! Hope my bud doesn't see your post

The THS is a very effective shot. FYI, he placed the bullet right through the AA-hole (Alberta A-hole) and it proceeded to blow-up the pelvis and surrounding tissue. This is a great shot, 150 yards or so and slowly walking away...

Hope Ray Atkinson doesn't mind me quoting him here but he even said

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The Texas heart shots not a high percentage shot? Now what the hell does that mean? It is probably the quickest killing shot that I know of, other than brain or spine... It tears up the heart lung area, along with whatever else that gets in its way like liver, stomach, spine or whatever..

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The only fault was overestimating the penetrating power of the 180gr. Accubond, which even Nosler will retest after seeing our results on deer. Maybe next year we'll try the TSX or Partition etc...

So there! hahahah

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Uhhh, you just said the only fault was overestimating the penetrating power of the 180gr. Accubond. < !--color--> Wouldn't that be "human error?"...which is part of Beeman's arguement.

With all due respect to Ray and you and your hunting companions, isn't it a bit messy gutting a booty hole shot deer? Don't get me wrong...I'd take that shot if it was THE ONLY one I had and it was a magnificent trophy, but, I'm not real certain (having witnessed a few myself) that the anal probe shot penetrates all the way to the heart/lung area consistantly, and if it did, the anatomy itself wouldn't allow all 3 (heart and both lungs) to be torn up consistantly. I'm not doubting that there have been deer taken quickly this way at all, but you'd really need a premium penetrator...Swift A Frame, partition, TRIPLE SHOCK.

Keep this in mind...I believe the Accubond is nothing more than a glorified Ballistic Tip with a thicker jacket. Not a bullet I would choose on a booty hole.

I certainly believe Ray when he says it's a quick kill shot but I would argue that what occurs with that shot is the destruction of the descending arteries that traverse the spine and pelvic girdle...the deer simply bleeds out from all the ruptured vessels...let alone the pain it must feel from having a frickin bullet UP ITS ASS AT GOD KNOWS HOW MANY FPS!!

Animals can die from shock/pain...they simply pass out...same as a human with trauma...which is what actually kills them off after they pass out.

Next time I archery hunt...which is tomorrow, the next day, and the day after that , if I am presented with a booty hole shot from a doe, I'll launch an arrow up her keester and see how fast she dies. I'll post the results if I am successful...we'll see if the THS is all it's cut out to be...or does a THS only work with bullets? Hmmm, the anatomy is the same, so according to the previous arguements, an arrow should do the same...stay tuned...

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on very hot days (like Africa) and waited some time to gut a couple

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'Funny taste', based on lots of unintentional experiments gaffing large fish in the Gulf of Mexico (and a few less than optimum bullet hits on deer ), comes from stomach fluids seeping into meat. I lost several blackfin tuna one time, when I was too tired to clean them that night, and I discovered a punctured gut is NOT necessary for this to happen, but it speeds it up a lot.

Cool the carcass, and it slows down a lot...my somewhat educated opinion is that it slows down the enzyme action of the gut fluids...anyone with a biology background will know how highly temperature dependant body chemistry is.

True rot/decomposition takes much longer to penetrate undisturbed tissue.

Get 'em while they're hot!!!