The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Bow and Arrow QuestionsGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Bow and Arrow Questions | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
My first bow hunting experience; yes it was with a crossbow brought me my first drop tine. My buddies have told me everything did what it was suppose to. However, I am not happy with the performance of the setup. Both lungs should have been got creating a better and shorter blood trail. In summary: The arrow only penetrated half way, Blood trial was in the large sparse, but once we found it, the blood never stopped, Buck went 100 yards, and died striding, Because of the arrow not penetrating, I thought I made a gut shot. Well, I put it right of the button. Lung shot just off the shoulder blade, Problem the arrow did not penetrate straight through. It destroyed inside lung. However, the arrow turned and angled down at a sharp angle. The liver was not hit. The stomach was not hit. The exit was right in the offside groin. Arrow path looked like I shot down from a tree stand. I was sitting below the deer. The Broadhead was sticking out of the exit wound. Broad Head-Rage Hypodermic No Collar, 100 grain. Arrow-Ten Point 420 grain CenterPunch. Total Weight-520 grainI did weigh the arrow shot. Crossbow: TenPoint Viper 400-setup speed 370 Shot mostly broadside, the slightest quarter to. I missed all heavy bone intentionally. Now, my buddies say everything worked perfect. I cannot accept that arrow turned only getting one lung. Questions: 1: What would be considered a heavy arrow? Post action reading suggest “heavy arrow setup.” 2: Would a “heavy” or “heavier@ setup help? 3: Can someone recommend a fixed blade, preferably one with solid blade and shank construction, to try w my crossbow? The reason I used the Rage is bc that was what everyone told me to use. They do shoot so well To date, 2 bucks have been shot w it in the lease from vertical bows, and not recovered. One was hit in the ball joint of onside, front leg. We know this bc we saw the arrow sticking in. Now, the last two years, the bow hunters culturing kung and no real bone have done great work w them. Advertisement like work. Thoughts, opinions, suggestions? Please, all are welcome. | ||
|
| One of Us |
I should add, 10 yards from finding him, the blood got good. It was a 3 foot circle of lung blood. He was dead 10 yards away. When we rolled him over, the entrance wound was gurgling, pouring lung blood. | |||
|
one of us |
Glad you found him, but I agree that's not optimal performance. How far was the shot? There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
|
| one of us |
I have shot dozens of deer with long bows, recurves, compounds, and now a cross bow. I have helped track many dozens more. Sounds like it worked just fine for a angling forward shot. Getting one lung has nothing to do with the bow or arrow. It has every thing to do with your aiming point. I try very hard not to take angling shots. By passing them up. If it is not broad side I don't shoot. No matter how big the horns are. Bows are not firearms and arrows/bolts are not bullets. If you want better performance take only broad side shots. | |||
|
| One of Us |
25 yards. I have photos of the lungs, stomach, liver, and entrance, along with deer if anyone wants to see. The impact sounded like you slapped a wet burlap shack with a flat pan. | |||
|
| One of Us |
It was not angling forward. The shot deflected and went back and down w no major bone being hit. I am shooting underneath him, and the arrows came out on a sharp angle like o was shooting from a tree stand. | |||
|
One of Us |
As I mentioned to you in an email. Try a fixed blade next time and compare results. ~Ann   | |||
|
| one of us |
Or far more likely scenario is the buck started to move at sound of the shot. He crouched and was starting to turn. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The arrow still should not have turned and went down. I say that did not happen, but it is possible. I could see the arrow sticking half way out onside w no bone hit. That is not acceptable to me. The entrance wound is not high indicating jumping sting. It is picture perfect actually | |||
|
| one of us |
I defer to your vast experience. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I defer to what I saw. Glad you know more setting in Wisconsin. Thank you for not addressing any of my questions. I can send you photographs. However, you obviously are the greatest archer since Robin Hood. There is no excuse for the arrow turning with no bone hit. I can only tell you what I saw. The onside arrow sticking out halfway with no bone hit with half the arrow. arrow sticking right on the spot horizontal to the target plane. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I admit I cannot follow your story very well, but here are my thoughts, opinions, and suggestions. If you are shooting a mechanical broadhead and you angle through the ribs, you can very easily get a distorted flight path. The blades are designed to expand out on a near 90 degree hit. At an angle you get a "f-ed up expansion" and the outboard blade may have caught a rib (and the other blade [inboard] didn't expand at the point of impact at the same time) and turned the arrow in exactly the way a car turns around a tree when a drunk crashes into it on the passenger side headlight. An arrow, especially with a mechanical can catch a rib and turn the path toward the caught rib. I just don't know if I am seeing what you are trying to describe accurately. If I am or not, I recommend fixed blade heads and learning how to tune your bow to shoot them. (penetration is better as well). Glad you found it and get to learn the easy way on this one. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I can send you photos of the boardhead, and entrance wound there is no angle entry. The Broadhead is not damaged. It simply failed to penetrate and turned. I can send you a photo of the lungs as well. The mechanical in deploying went wanly. This, I ask again: What weight do you guys consider to be a heavy arrow setup for deer? What mechanical broadheaded has anyone used with success in a crossbow at 370-400 feet? It is weird; yet, simple. I am setting down. The buck is near perfect, very slight querying too. He taken right off the shoulderblade in the lungs. The arrow does not strike either shoulderblade. The mechanical integrity wise is fine, wash, sharpen, reuse. The arrow only penetrates about half way and turned down, only getting in lung. The exit in the groin was blocked by the broadhead sticking through. Blood trail was sparse in volume, but never stops. At 10 yards, from death spot, he bleeds exceptionality. Look up there he has died in stride. Roll him over and that one lung is gushing from the entrance. Folks with as much archery experience das o dog have seen the deer on the ground and live. Others including here in AR have seen him. I accept the arrow deflected off a rib. Point is that does not need to happen. Hence, the post and two questions above. Again, no “heavy bone was struck to deflect the stoke or prevent it from exiting. The mechanical did not perform as it should. Finally and Thusly, what does the group think consider heavyweight arrow set up? Does anyone have a fixed blade broadhead to recommend. If anyone wants to see any of this, pm me. We say flat, but the rib aged is curved and flexes. So, it is never truly flat. | |||
|
| one of us |
Do some more analyzes, worry more about, don't take advice from any one else, blame the broad head. Spend more money different equipment. There is nothing wrong with your bow bolt or broad head. the slightest quarter to. They preformed just as I have come to expect on a quartering shot. But shit happens once the projectile leaves the weapon. Did the bolt nick a twig, did the deer move, Was your aim a bit off. Did a gust of wind happen. Was the angle a bit more then you though. Any one could be why what happen happened. Do worry go hunting. But in my experience the arrow and broad head preform just fine it for the angle and where it hit. | |||
|
| one of us |
I say the problem is your broadhead. Two blade with a large span can easily plane after they open. That being said. A dead deer in 100 yards, you dont really have a problem. I've seen Geer with both lungs blown up from a rifle shot run 80 yards. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have heard mixed reviews about the rage broadheads. Did both sides open up? I would also talk with this guy about arrows https://wyverncreations.com/ | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thank you both. Yes, both sides deployed. The head could be cleaned and resharpened. Again, anyone who wants them, I will send you photos. Run across a lot of videos and reading of the same thing when very little response I’ve post were made. Hunt Public which I disagree with a lot of their policy, has a very detailed discussion on this topic with video. I had a great conversation with the gentleman who owns VPD Archery. I am clicking your link for arrow question now. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I've killed a couple of deer with a crossbow. Less than 65 yds travel. Don't like your penetration and issues. I'm not well enough versed to answer your questions. I would suggest joining this forum : https://www.crossbownation.com/ There should be plenty of answer's there. Good luck. Bruce | |||
|
One of Us |
It’s been a few years since I’ve hunted with my Excalibur. If I remember correctly, the bolt is Easton Carbon Power Bolt with 125 gr G5 Montec. I’ve also used 100 gr G5 T3 expandables with great success. In 2019 I turned 50 and wanted to do some hunting. Unfortunately, I had a hip replacement a couple months prior. I has very limited mobility while building back up my strength. Decided on a North American Buffalo. 35 yards and broadside. Hit a little far back, but still caught the lungs. The Buff immediately hunched forward from the impact. The bolt deflected downward, with the broadhead tip exiting behind the opposite shoulder. The Buff went 60 to 70 yards before laying down. The bolt remained intact except for losing a single vane. The Montec Broadhead was rendered unless. It grounded against the back side shoulder blade, as the Buff took off. Don’t remember how to post pictures, but will try to upload some this weekend. MSG, USA (Ret.) Armor NRA Life Memeber | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thank you for the expandable recommendation. Hats off to the bow and arrow buff. | |||
|
| one of us |
LH I have been a bow hunter for almost 40 years. PM me pictures and I will try and figure out what happened. Russ | |||
|
| one of us |
I use 150 gr. Slick Trick broadheads they fly great and kill quick. My crossbow is going about 380 fps. Last deer I shot arrow went through and just the feather were sticking out of the ground. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thank you as well. Got a lot of good recommendations to try. | |||
|
One of Us |
I have used mechanical broadheads with my compound bows on and off for years without issue on different species. I am not a rage fan but out of a compound they have a decent track record. Many mechanical broadheads are not designed for crossbow use - the velocity is too fast for the design. My son and son-in-law just shot black bears this fall with their Tenpoint crossbows using 100gr Muzzy 3 blades. Complete passthru on both bears, one was in the shoulder and out the rib cage perfectly… I think you will find its best to use fix blades out of these high speed crossbows… "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
|
| One of Us |
Slick Tricks are excellent Broadheads! "At least once every human being should have to run for his life - to teach him that milk does not come from the supermarket, that safety does not come from policemen, and that news is not something that happens to other people." - Robert Heinlein | |||
|
| One of Us |
Thank you 257 and Scott Powell And everyone who has responded to my question via pm and email. There are a lot of you. Slick Trick, VPD, zwickey fixed blade, as an expandable Grim Reaper is well suggested. It is going to be a lot of fun. As I told my buddy before we found the blood trail with this shot placement m, “ I will never do this again.” This being Rage and wide, shallow opening mechanicals like them. | |||
|
| One of Us |
https://postimg.cc/gallery/49bFM0V Slow day at work, so I’m trying to figure out how to post pictures. It’s been some time since I done so. I found last week someone posted a how to on “Post Image site directions.” Now I can’t find it in the search results. If anyone has the link, please send it. Pics show the Bison with entry and exit wound, along with the 125 Montec broadhead. The broadhead ground against the opposite side arm as the Bison took off. LHeym500. Failed to mention the wife and I used the G5 T3 broadheads in South Africa. We took Bush Pig, Blue Wildebeest, Zebra and Sable with them. MSG, USA (Ret.) Armor NRA Life Memeber | |||
|
One of Us |
You probably won't like this, but in all likelihood you probably caused the problem. A 20 inch arrow is very difficult to turn quickly as described. The broadhead is even more unlikely to be the cause of your observations. The information provided would be far more likely to be caused by the deer being somewhat alert and spinning into the shot as part of trying to get out of dodge. I have used faster and slower crosasbows and killed a few dozen deer with Rage heads. A poor or even non-existent blood trail is just a fact that accompanies some deer shot with arrows. Anything that hampers blood on the ground, like the arrow entering the abdomen, just aggravates it. There is an organ in the abdomen, the Omentum, whose raison d'etre is to plug holes and stop mixing intestinal contenst where they do not belong. That deer was likely standing still thinking on his next move and had you pegged. When he hea4rd the shot as the crossbow fired, he most probably spun some to exit back the way he came. As far as everything working according to plan... Yes, as long as the plan was put an arrow into Bambi and Bambi bleeds out as a consequence. Faulty plan! The plan MUST include the possibility of not just a poor blood trail, The plan must prepare you, the hunter for the eventuality of a zero blood trail and you must be ready to deal with exactly that, and have the tools necessary to do so and the skills needed to complete what you started. The preparation is what you are gaining now, after the fact. You need to understand everything these people, all of them, are telling you and then apply that to the facts you had on the ground. Poor blood trails to zero blood trails occur with bow, rifles of all size and power, broadheads regardless of style or operation. It is a fact of life. I have never used a bullet, rifle bow, arrow or broadhead that was foolproof At some point things will go sideways with all of them. Lear how to prevent what you can and deal with what your have to. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Zwickey webpage is a bit of a buffet wo knowing what the cuisine is. What types of Zwickey Broadhead does folks like for deer? My gut reaction was the Esklite 4 blade or the Eskimo 4 blade, they are both heavy, but light to most of his screw ons. | |||
|
One of Us |
I would be wary of changing your bolt setup and make it too heavy. Crossbows are designed to work in a window of weights, and i know of a few folks that have broken their xbows going heavy. I am a big fan of heavy, i shoot 642gr arrows. I also have a 31.5" monkey arm draw length and shoot 80lbs from a 340ibo bow. So i have a lot of advantages. your arrows are plenty heavy for deer imho. I hate rage broadheads... with a passion. I believe they are responsible for more lost animals than any other broadhead, (when its the head at fault, often its the indian not the broadhead). They spend a ton on marketing though, and a lot of people use them. With a crossbow and the more limiting ability to tune, you may want to stick with mechanicals. I would look at SEVR heads for mechs, they're pretty tough and they make a 1.5" that will not have giant blades flapping and bending. For a fixed head, I would try Iron Will. I think they're the best broadhead made at the moment. | |||
|
| one of us |
I have used many of the zwickey and my favorite is the 5/16 eskilite screw on in either 2 or 4 blade. they are 135 grains so they are not much heavier than most other broadheads. The biggest question is if you can get them to shoot straight. You have to tune the bow to them and not sure how much to you can tune a crossbow. The only way to know if they will work is to try them. If you can get them to fly right they are hard to beat for the cost of them. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Crossbow bolts are much shorter, stiffer, and have higher FOC due to the length then bow arrows. I am going to start out keeping overall weight relatively the same. I’ll never take elk sized game or real bone shots, but I am going to get straight, two hole penetration on deer lungs. All else fails, I’ll find a “better mechanical.” I was never impressed with them in theory. I am less so now. Iron Will just made the list. I believe we can find something better than these flappers. MtElk thank you for the specific recommendation on broad head. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have been bow hunting for about forty years now, went to a crossbow last year because of spinal issues. I have been using Thunderhead broadheads for the last 26 years. Have killed plenty deer with them. I understand the attraction of shooting mechanicals. The low profile helps the arrow fly straighter. However with many, much of the kinetic energy is expended upon impact, going through hide, hair and opening the broadhead. I also suspect that much of the accuracy deficiencies of a fixed blade on a crossbow bolt are overcome by the incredible speed. Also, I would not fret much about a heart-shot deer (with an arrow or bolt) going a hundred yards before falling. There simply isn’t the hydrostatic shock from either that comes with a bullet. You have punched a hole through the heart, but it can take several seconds before there is sufficient blood loss to reduce the blood pressure enough for them to fall. I have killed— and recovered— several heart-shot deer that went a hundred yards. | |||
|
| one of us |
My son just shot a nice buck broad side through and through. Perfect X through the heart. good blood trail. It ran some where in the 80 to 100 yard range. Very common distance for a lung heart shot deer firearm or bow. | |||
|
| one of us |
Ive seen a lot of archery including cross bow kills..I think Id call your experience as s--t happens, seen it with rifles and pistols as well, it just does! I think take only broadside shots is good advise with lighter rifles and bows..I do that with my 222, 6x45, etc and pistols and back in the day my bow..I have not always practiced this advise of course, took a while to get it thru my thick skull one is hunting the other is shooting..Even so you can never guarentee 110% success cuz like I said to start with s---t happens with gun and bow, animals are wounded except on the internet.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia