The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Merits of 338-06 vs. 35 Whelan - Your Opinion PleaseGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
Which do you prefer for American or African hunting? Are the Ackley Improved variants worth getting? Seems like the 338-06 gets the edge because of a greater bullet selection. | ||
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Does it really matter? 6 or half dozen? Just look at the ballistics charts for both. Both are phenominal rounds. You don't need to go the improved route. You do have a choice of more bullets with the .338 but if you reload I'm sure you won't have a problem coming up with your favorite load for either. FWIW, I own a .338-06. | |||
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Anyone who says there are more usable bullets for the 338-06 than the 35 Whelen just hasn't looked into it. With the 338 caliber you have a narrow useful range in the 180 to 225 grain range and bullets that are designed at a minimum for full power loadings. The 35 caliber has a useful range of bullets from 180 to 250 grains and virtually all are tailored to the Whelens velocity range. There are bullets designed for the 35 Remington that can be easily loaded to sedate velocities and used on deer with great effect, There are round nosed designs for weights in the whole spectrum of bullet weights and there are the 225 and 250 grain Nosler Partitions along with the legendary 250 grain Speer Hotcor. You can use pistol bullets to make up fireforming loads so that first shot doesn't cost you that much before you start your load developement. To me the 338-06 is at it's best with bullet weights that can be pushed to reasonable speeds out of the parent case, the 30-06. I looked into building a rifle and decided the 35 Whelen was by far the most versatile of the two cartridges. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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rickt300, your comments seem a little off the mark according to various reloading manuals as well as the practical field experience of many AR forum members with regard to the 338-06. I am a little confused by your phrase "narrow useful range" when every reloading manual I have offers 250 grain loads. And "designed at a minimum for full power loadings"? While it appears the 338 bullets are mostly designed for 338 WM velocities many notable authorities suggest that the slightly lower velocities of the 338-06 enable some bullet weights to actually achieve greater penetration than their SD suggests they ought to. Frankly, aren't most calibers most useful when appropriate bullets are driven to appropriate velocities? So, not sure what your comment meant there. And both the Whelen and the 338-06 can be loaded with 250+ weight bullets. It also seems most shooters with experience using both suggest there is no discernible difference between the two in performance on game. Given the fact that their bore sizes are very close in size to one another and in equal bullet weights using equal barrel lengths can be driven to similar velocities, I am missing the grounds for your "versatility" claim in support of the Whelen over the 338-06. It seems to me it's simply a matter of preference for the particular shooter. | |||
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The vast majority of .338 diameter bullets are NOT designed for the lower velocities of the 338-06. That "wealth of bullets" for the 338 are designed for the various 338Magnums. The 35whelen had the entire selection of 358diameter bullets to chose from including many that can be "loaded down" to 358Win or even 35Rem velocities. MOST of those bullets that WILL "work" in the 338-06 that are actually designed for the 338Mags MUST be loaded to "max" for them to perform reliably. His point is that the bullets that are available in 338 often aren't "appropriate" or CANNOT be driven to "appropriate speeds" As a note there is another cartridge often mentioned on these forums that suffers from the opposite problem, the 358Norma Magnum. Until recently there were very few bullets designed for the higher speeds this cartridge could kick up compared to the 35Whelen. AD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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The case in point seems to be the reports of hunters using the 210 grain NP in their 338-06s and achieving very favorable results in the slightly lower velocities in light of the SD. | |||
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I chose the .338-06 over the Whelan as Elmer Keith Championed it in his old .333 OKH. Which then turned into a .338" when the .338" slugs became available. I've used 250 gr Trophy Bondeds as well as 250 gr NP's and never had a problem with a too tough slug. The .338-06 vs .35 Whelan is a lot like the OLD trap shooters problem; 7 1/2's or #8 shot? Or .270 win or .30-06? Either one works fine. FN in MT 'I'm tryin' to think, but nothin' happens"! Curly Howard Definitive Stooge | |||
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FN in Montana wrote:
Well said. There isn't a nickel's worth of difference in the two rounds, and no animal hit properly -- and with the approproate proejctile -- will ever complain.  Bobby Μολὼν λαβέ The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri | |||
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All we need is a debate about Ginger and Maryann, the 41 vs. the 44 mag (which is really a 43 mag), we could try and debate 270 win vs the 280 remington. Hey in the spirit of the season, why don't we debate in the bird stuffing versus out of the bird stuffing Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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Ginger! Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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And by the way when Elmer chose the 338-06 the only bullets around I believe were the 275 grain Speer and a 300 grain bullet designed for the 33 Winchester I believe. This was well before the 338 Magnums were put into use. If one uses the 210 grain Nosler Partition the one would have to say the 200 grain NP in the 30-06 is pretty near just as capable. My use of the 250 grain Sierra BTSP in the 338 Win mag at long range showed it was a poor expander at ranges past 350 yards. I don't believe the 338-06 can push 250 grain Nosler Partition as fast as the same weight bullet out of the 35 Whelen at equal pressures but both will work perfectly at ranges out to a bit over 300 yards. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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can someone please verify this claim about bullet weights? my understanding was that the 333 OKH was originally, like its design predecessor, built to also use 250 grain slugs at approx 2500 fps. I'm thinking of Cartridges of the World, 10th ed. The 318 WR and the 333 Jeffery did use 300 grainers as well but not sure there were no 250 gr bullets available. Afterall, wasn't Keith famous for saying he favored 33 caliber and 250 bullets as a minimum for elk? | |||
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Wish I had more of my older game shots on digital instead of antiquated FILM. Heres a mature elk I shot with my .338-06 and IIRC 250 gr NP, or possibly 225 NP's. If it was 250's they were loafing along at 2400 and the 225's would have been 2500 or maybe 2550 no more. He was at a lasered 300 yds, hit him behind the shoulder , he went maybe three steps and I saw he was in trouble. He went down very close to the point of impact. As You can see he had fractured his skull and the horn on that side formed strangely, almost covering his eye.  Also wanted to add that I took my .338-06 to RSA in 2000, just days after it was completed. Ran one load through it that was very accurate and seemed to be pretty hot. I didn't have a lot of data on the round at that time and the load ended up at a sedate 2440 fps with 250 Swift A-Frames. As a matter of fact did the final sighting in by headlights the night before we left. Shot a waterbuck, hartebeest, Southern impala and a very large Livingston eland with those 250's and never had a problem. The only bullet recovered was from the Waterbuck. He was angling towards me and it went 2+ feet breaking the shoulder , taking out the lungs,then ending up in the off side under the hide nicely mushroomed. Range was IIRC 50 yds,certainly under 100. Should have recovered the slug from the eland but somehow lost it at the slaughterhouse. It was in the off shoulder someplace. FN in MT 'I'm tryin' to think, but nothin' happens"! Curly Howard Definitive Stooge | |||
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I own both and like them both but all I can say is that the .338 has better rifle bullet selection than the .35 but they are just as effective on the same game. You will not be able to tell the difference between the two an how they perform. | |||
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Maybe you should say the .338 diameter has a better selection of bullets you like to shoot. I will also add that on many gunshop shelves around here that you will find more bullets in .338 diameter than you will in 35 caliber. The internet evens this out though. Now that the 338 Federal is making it's rounds, maybe just maybe there wil be some bullets put out that you can use at less than top speeds for normal deer and hog hunting. At present the 35 caliber has more bullets that will allow you a far greater spread of useful velocities and that have proven very reliable over the years at reachable speeds. This mainly covers the standard bullets made by Remington, Sierra, Speer and Hornady. Both calibers are well endowed with a variety of excellent premium bullets like the Partition, A-frames, trophy bonded etc, for the heavy end of things. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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2 peas in a pod IMHO _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
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I have both but decided not to take the Whelen to Namibia...it's a pumpgun and more suited to the Pennsylvania deer woods. | |||
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Whether there is a greater availability of bullets in the .338 or not isn't really an argument to me. You only need a 210 TSX at 2750-2800 fps and a 250 partition at 2500 fps. The argument about the bullets being designed for a .338 WM is silly since there is only 150 fps at the most difference between the two. In other words, if a .338-06 bullet won't perform at its stated velocity then the .338 Mag won't at 300 either which we all know is wrong. One thing I do know is that the sectional density of a 250 .338 is a bit better than a 250 .358 bullet. The .35's need a faster twist and better availability of heavyweight bullets, but then it would pretty much be a 9.3x62 clone only not quite as good. This is all theory anyway, reality is not near as much fun to argue about. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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My vote goes for Mary Ann and the 35 Whelen. I always wanted a slice of her coconut cream pie. However, if a nice 338-06 or Ginger crossed my path, I probably couldn't say no. **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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The 338-06 does not provide velocities within 150 fps of the 338 Winchester Magnum. Especially considering bullets of 250 grains. Leftists are intellectually vacant, but there is no greater pleasure than tormenting the irrational. | |||
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But who cares if it basically duplicates the historically effective ballistic formula of the venerable 318 WR, 333 Jeffery and, more recently, the 333 OKH, namely a 250 grain slug at between 24-2500 fps? If it is the extra range and trajectory you seek then the 338 Win Mag is probably your ride. The WR and the Jeffery rounds were designed as bushveld cartridges to be fired at game out to ranges generally found is the areas where they were used. I think this is in the range of approx 150 yards. Perhaps your shooting opps don't allow for those sorts of shots. Again, this may make the case for the WM for you. Yet, the 250s are usually thought of as heavy game slugs(especially given the quality of modern bullets) and heavy game is generally not shot at long distances. | |||
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Ginger, too high maintenance, first wife was just like that, ended badly. Mary Ann, not as sexy, but I bet she could cook and cut up game and curl your toes as needed. 338/06 vs. 35 Whelen. Had a 35, good calibre, works on anything, needs a custom barrel with a faster twist to really shine. 338/06, many 338 slugs are best a Win Mag velocity, but my friends that use NP's are very happy. My favorite? A 9.3x62 of course!  | |||
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I went with the 338-06, because of the available Nosler Accubond bullets in this caliber, especially the 225 gr Accubond with a reported BC=0.55. According to QLoad and a 26.5" barrel astonding results can be obtained, essentially producing magnum performance. | |||
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| One of Us |
Avoid the issue, get a 9.3X62. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Merits of 338-06 vs. 35 Whelan - Your Opinion Please
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