KLN,
Benchrest groups show me what my riffle is capable of. If a load is not developed and zeroed-in at the bench I'd never hit anything off-hand.
Gene

10-4 to Gene. A well developed load represents many sessions of shooting, and it takes lots of shooting for the process to become instinctive, in my opinion that is what it needs to be. Any form of placing the crosshair or open sights on target and pulling the trigger will never hurt the shooter, the more they do it the better they become. Bench rest shooting should be followed by field practice. A lot of both types shooting will reinforce good habits and do away with the bad. ----- If you don't like to do one or the other, do twice as much of the one you do like and hope for the best, but don't blame someone else for the miss. Good shooting.

[ 08-18-2003, 23:57: Message edited by: phurley ]

Gatogordo,
I am not the original poster of the info.
But if you sight your big game rifle in at 300 yards you will have 7 to 9 inches of drop at 400 yards with several flat shooting calibers.
My experience is with 7mm rem mag and 300 win mag in particular. At 400 yards a hold just below the backbone it about right on a deer and about 1/3 of the way down on an elk.

I sight in my rifles for 300 yards because I have my scope set up to range find for that yardage.
On my Sightron 4 x 16 a deer fits perfectly in the first mildot on 10 power at 300 yards and an elk fits perfectly in the first 2 mildots at 300 yards.
Don't claim to be a mildot expert and hope to experiment more with it.

Gatogordo-Both my 7mmstw's and 300 ultramags are sighted in to be 2-3/4" high at 100 yards.At 400 yards the 140gr ballistic tips out of the stw(3500fps at muzzle) are 6" low while the 180gr ballistic tips out of the 300ultramag(3395fps at muzzle) are about 7" low.

One thing is certain, realistic group expectations from a reworked factory rifle can be a dream not a reality. Any reworked factory rifle that would consistantly produce a .054 five shot group at 200 yards would have every benchrest shooter on this planet trying own that rifle. I would want to see that group fired before I believe such a statement. groups of that tiny diameter are rarely shot at 100 yards with a benchrest rifle. Nothing is impossible in shooting, but of this I am posotive, the person that made such a claim has probably lost sight of reality by making that statement. I also doubt they know how to accurately measure a group properly. My best group with my premium heavy barreled 308 target rifle is .068 at 100 yards.

Your trying to do what is not a realistic group at 200 yards with a benchrest rifle let alone a factory rifle. I believe this is one of those Paul Harvey stories that is just to far fetched to digest.

ok... maybe you guys can shed some light on a dillemna of mine...

I'm still shooting my first deer rifle... sad I know, but there is only so much money in the bank. its a older (early-mid 70s) Rem 700 ADL in 25-06 with a similar vintage Weaver 3-9 on top of it that seems to be, well, lacking.

I'm shooting "off-hand" (standing, no rest or support) groups of about 3-4" at 100-125 yds (the better 3-shot groups are about 2" and I'd say every 3rd group is good). (poor wind conditions pushed that to about 6" recently, but lets discount that fact that I was also shooting straight into a sunset and my picture was "poor" to say the least.

I feel as if I'm really not making much, if any progress with this thing and its getting frustrating to have such a lack of consistency in what have been reasonable conditions (winds under 10mph, temps under 80, decent light)

I just guess I feel like I suck at this, but I KNOW that I'm a better shooter than that... where would you say is "good enough" for "most" hunting???

[ 10-18-2003, 16:12: Message edited by: dasMafia ]

I'd say that you're doing pretty well. Your consistency is pretty good. Can you do better? Well, can your rifle do better? Have you shot for groups from a solid benchrest?

One other thing, don't be down for having the one rifle, you're probably better with it than those of us with several who never really get to learn theirs. (Not to mention any names )

I sight my guns 2 inches high at 100...most animals missed are overshot....I test them at 200, 300 yards for trajectory...

I practice offhand at 100, 200 and even 300 more than anything else and even with iron sights and big bores...I have found this to pay off big time, and can make a few bucks in hunting camp.

hold over is easy, wind is hard to judge in the field, at least for me...

I use a bench rest to sight in a new scope and check handload performance. To tune up for hunting season I shoot standing, sitting, using a rest (prone, tree, etc.) and any other useful in the field position.

did the benchrest things as best I could... basically a beefed-up picnic table and the fore-stock resting on a bag of shot.... nothing fancy at all. but my groups were sub 2" from that set. taken in that light, it would seem that at least to some degree, I've got an issue where I'm at the end of the rifle's current ability to be consistent.

that's ok, I needed an excuse to have a M70 stainless rebuilt for 257wby! some trigger work and basic tuning should net me a bit more accuracy.

and ray, I concur... wind SUCKS!!!!

and I live in nebraska, of all places... DOH!