My freinds and I were out running yotes with the hounds today. As I was standing on the road listening to the hounds. A follow came jogging down the road I also run so I said. A rather have it 40 above then 20 for running.

He asked what we were doing I said running yotes with dogs. He goes what do you do with them I said shoot them and sell the hides.

He said well I guess that does goes on. I rather not see that you know that they have very tight family groups there own langue. That they are very smart and I would hate to see them harmed.

I just smile at him and politely told him I plan to shoot the next one that we chase out and that he should have a good day.

He said OH and went on his way.

When he came running back through I wave at him but I just could not understand why he wouldn't wave back.

Very soft spoken A true forest fairy if I ever saw one.

None trying to stir the pot here, but that was one of the classic meetings that does not help hunters what so ever.

I understand why you did it and how you feel, and I ain't saying that anyone that hunts should apologise to anyone for what they are doing, but it can be explaied in a way that does not purposely antagonise someone.

First off, you don't really know that the guy was an anti hunter from your description of the meeting, now do you?

I am not an anti-hunter in the least, and running coyotes with dogs does not bother me in the least, although it is nothing I want to do.

Some folks like hanging coyote carcasses on a fence after they kill them, I don't, but hey if that is what they want to do, go for it even though it does cast a bad light on hunters from the Non-Hunting Public.

That right there is one thing ALL of us that hunt, need to keep in mind, not everyone that does not hunt is an anti hunter.

Did you ask the guy whether he hunted or not, or did you just assume that because he did not like the idea of running coyotes with dogs or shooting coyotes, that he was an anti hunter.

Hell, I know a lot of hunters that don't get one damn thing out of shooting doves or ducks, could care less about it, others that would not shoot a deer for any reason yet will go to places like Argentina and try to burn the barrels of a shotgun or two shootig doves.

Not meaning to offend you, but you assumed that this guy was an anti hunter, simply because he did not find what you were doing as fun or excitig as you do.

As a group we have to stop making assumptions like that, he could of be an anti hunter, a non hunter, or a hunter that just does not see anything fun in running coyotes with dogs or shooting coyotes just for the hell of it.

One thing I bet he is however is a voter, and hunters as a group have to stop alienating voters that can determine whether we keep our priveldges to hunt or not.

Antagonizing a person simply because they are not as enthusiastic about your choice of enjoyment as you are, does no one any good.

JMO.

Personally I hope you had a great day and killed a few coyotes and enjoyed listening to the dogs.

As a hunter concerned about the future of hunting in America, I think your interactions with someone that while maybe not an overt support of hunting, but possibly not an adversary, and your assumption that the guy was an anti hunter needs to be re-assessed, because such interactions can turn someone that does not have anything against our sport can just as easy turn into some one that can and will vote against us. Again, Just My Opinion.

Crazy Horse,

You make many excellent points. The only thing I can add to it is the conversation I had yesterday with a friend who is an avid hunter. I am looking to book a mountain goat hunt and mentioned that the outfitter provides a wolf tag at no additional cost.

My friend responded that a wolf is an animal that he couldn't hunt. He didn't suggest that I not hunt them, but he views the wolf differently than me. My daughter is pro-hunting, but doesn't want daddy to kill a wolf either.

It might have been the same with the jogger.

Crazhorseconsulting If the guy was a hunter and not a anti He'll understand. The conversation last a whole 90 secs. When some one tells me that he is concerned with the family life of coyotes and that.

It is clear to me his stance.

I surpose I could have told him I was in touch with the inter feeling of the yote we were running and that is was to bad that the yote had to give up his life so some poor soul could wear his fur and get warm.

I tried of bending over backwards to people who do not like what I am doing we have been compromising to the anti hunters and anti gunners for way to long.

We went from being able to buy and sell any weapon we wanted to now having to go through back ground checks ect, no full auto's (without lots of trouble) The only compromising done was gun owners giving up some of there rights.

Tell me something the anti gunners have given up.

As far as hunting we have been giving and giving and giving also. The antis have forced lead shot lead bullets bans on us. They sue to close hunting areas and sue to stop hunting of the game animals we shoot.

We respond by banning lead shot, bullets and requireding permits for animals we hunts so we can say we are properly using the resources. We respond by closing more and more areas to hunting and by putting more restrictions on us.

What have they given up nothing, do they stop no.

What have they given up?

They just keep pushing for more and more restrictions on us.

It is one thing to try an convince people who are on the fence.

Its another thing to convince some one who is worry about the family life of a coyote.

CVC I guess you have some more training to do with your daughter so she sees hunting wolves is no differant then hunting any thing else.

Oh, I dunno, I'm pretty sure I'm not an anti-hunter (I don't know how many live things I've killed, but counting birds it has to be in the high tens of thousands) but there are quite a few animals that I don't care to or wouldn't shoot unless threatened.....without thinking real hard, among them are bears, giraffes, elephants, and most wild cats. Probably wolves too, although I never really thought about it before and would be quick to add that if I was a rancher and they were eating my cattle, my opinion would be substantially different.

Personally, I've got a "don't dare shoot one" rule for a puma on my place and a "well, shoot it if you want to, but I don't shoot them myself, for bobcats". I don't have any problem with those who hunt them, it's just something I don't want to do. If it got right down to it, I just think they are neat looking critters and I don't have to kill one to prove that I can hunt or shoot or anything else.

A few seconds explaining how coyotes eat people's dogs, hurt the deer population, etc might have been time better spent IMO. I'm not being critical, I wasn't there and the body language and expressions of that individual might have shown that to be a useless effort.

I can tell you this, if hunters as a group keep coming across to the non-hunting public as a bunch of bubbas who just want to go out and kill something/anything while trashing up the countryside and shooting road signs, the continued decline of hunting and hunters is assured. Have you ever noticed how "GRAY" the majority of hunters and gun show attendees are?

p dog shooter, your missing the whole point here.

You made an assumption about some one with out gathering any other information, 90 seconds and this guy is an Anti-Hunter in your book.

Iguess that makes any of us that have no desire to kill an African Lion or a Hippo or a Rhino an Anti-Hunter.

I believe in killing coyotes on sight. I know huters and land owners that would not kill one unless they had to, does that make them Anti-Hunters????

Hunting is a priveldge, not a right, and the majority of game laws were instituted at the insistance of hunters.

You seem to want to get beligerent simple because other people don't look at hunting the same way you do, that is wrong on so many levels as to be pathetic.

Anti's are the same the world over, the enemy, they are happier to see dead dairy cattle rather than dead badgers where I'm from, since we had to stop legal fox hunting, my buddies & I are falling over the foxes round here, we shoot em on site three nights a week, I even heard one dummie spout off how he wished the cows would stop lowing through the night! the whole thing is going tit's up due to some p.c. git who's got themselves a bit of leverage in high places. Although I never had a need to shoot or own pistols, we lost the right to, now illegal pistol shootings have gone through the roof!

quote:

Hunting is a priveldge, not a right,

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
He said well I guess that does goes on. I rather not see that you know that they have very tight family groups there own language. That they are very smart and I would hate to see them harmed.

I thought ALL animals had their own language...
I used to live and work (now just work) in the People's Republic of Eugene. I am very used to the bashing of hunting and hunters in general and this kind of uninformed clap-trap.

I try to educate the anti's I run into, the truth is, for the most part, it is probably a waste of time.
I have explained to many people if it weren't for modern day hunters (and the fees they pay) coupled with game management, there would not be animals like we have today. I also explain that hunters support the economy.
Most of these people don't believe you are telling the truth, because if you were, they would see this on the evening news, right?

These are the same people that complain about the raising of taxes and cutting of government services and then protest the harvesting of timber while sitting in a tree. They want it both ways.

quote:

Originally posted by CVC:
Crazy Horse,

You make many excellent points. The only thing I can add to it is the conversation I had yesterday with a friend who is an avid hunter. I am looking to book a mountain goat hunt and mentioned that the outfitter provides a wolf tag at no additional cost.

My friend responded that a wolf is an animal that he couldn't hunt. He didn't suggest that I not hunt them, but he views the wolf differently than me. My daughter is pro-hunting, but doesn't want daddy to kill a wolf either.

It might have been the same with the jogger.

This illustrates the problem with anti's in general(not suggesting that those you were referring to are anti's)....they think on an emotional rather than rational level. A wolf is special because they look great on TV in their highly regimented pack heirarchy......but when you remind these people that they are decimating other species and ripping rancher's calves to shreds they don't want to listen.

There is no compromising with these people.....which is EXACTLY why the pro-gun establishment is unwilling to budge on any issue. If you give them even an inch they're going to want a mile before the ink is dry.

Like it or not the natural order of things has been altered forever.....and the only way to maintain some semblance of balance is proper management.

Remember...wolves were hunted to near extinction for a good reason.

quote:

.they think on an emotional rather than rational level.

That is true of many hunters as well though.

We see it on these forums when any conservation issue comes up, lot's of knee jerk, gut level reactions that generally are not based on real information.

quote:

Originally posted by Skinner.:

quote:

.they think on an emotional rather than rational level.

That is true of many hunters as well though.

We see it on these forums when any conservation issue comes up, lot's of knee jerk, gut level reactions that generally are not based on real information.

That is true.....thankfully, we have very competent, articulate folks who represent us where it counts.....I suppose this is one area where I agree with lobbying. Anyone else ever notice that you can't engage a liberal in a conversation?

quote:

Anyone else ever notice that you can't engage a liberal in a conversation?

Same can be said for many supposed conservatives.

As for lobbying, we need Democratic votes as well as Republican votes in legislatures. Know that from direct experience.

Soooo......... The 'liberal vs conservative' mantra is terribly ineffective when one needs Democratic support to kill a bill or pass one.

What is effective is knowing the issue and the arguments on all sides of it. Which requires time and effort.

So let me get this straight, if someone does not support hunting the same way you do, that automatically makes them an anti-hunter???????

We hunt a city forest here with lots of people, in some areas it is becoming rather a park than a forest. However, it is close to my home and has good populations of roe deer and wild boar.

We have many encounters with city people, most of which I would say are not really pro hunting. However, when you take that up as an opportunity, it generally turns out that only a 5% or so are really lost cases. When treating them politely and explaining them what we do and why, in most cases we part with a better understanding of each other.

Like I said, these encounters are great opportunities to do some public relation for our sport.

Sometimes I get so frustrated with the myopic and misguided views of "hunters."

Somehow you think that just because you're right, the rest of the world will automatically come to that conclusion.

The point here is not whether or not some animals are off-limits to hunting or giving in to the anti's - it is how we approach the subject of hunting with others, whether they be hunters or not.

No one suggests being ashamed of being a hunter, just use tact and discrection when interacting with someone who may not share your beliefs.

And for the record, P Dog, I think my daughter has the right to choose which animal she wants to hunt or not to hunt.

She doesn't need training as I've raised her to be an independent thinker and to arrive at her own conclusions.

Let me share how I responded to my daughter when she told me not to hunt wolves. I told her that I would focus on getting an older wolve that was past his prime and most likely going to die anyway except his death would be quick instead of slow and painful if left to nature.

She said ok, that makes sense.

Tact and reason can sometimes overcome emotion.

I'm hearing a lot of BS out of yall who want to placate to the anti's. Really...your hunting yotes because they eat dogs...??? Yall are gut less! You hunt because you like it and trying to explain it away in a intelligent way that makes you sound like your doing the animal a favor is pathetic. Stand up for what you do and don't deny its enjoyment. Why would you come down on P dog. Every one of you has given the jogger the benefit of doubt with NO info on where he stands. Yall make me sick and you are the best thing the anti's have going...help from with in.

Perry

For the record I as pro hunting and pro gun as they come. I have taught dozens of youngsters how to shoot promote hunting any time I can.

I AM NOT ATTCKING ANY BODY PERSONNALY HERE.

What I have seen over the years is many youngsters from very soild hunting families fail to follow into the hunting back ground.

Because the parants have fallen into the what I call the liberal trap. That they can not train their children. that they have to let their children become free thinkers and be independent.

But if they are not frist grounded in good soild values by their parants what happens is they find some one else to ground them.

Liberal collage professers love students that are not grounded.

So CVC Not saying it is going to happen to your daughter. But it happen to a freinds of my daugther he thought well its ok for her not to hunt. ( I can't force her) So during high school she became I vergetarian thats ok its her choice. Now shes very anti hunting also.

So if your daughter grows up to become a liberal anti hunting ,lesbian, vergetaian it well all be ok because she is a free thinker and indepentant. ( not saying she well be or is)

I AM NOT ATTACKING YOUR DAUGHTER IN ANY WAY.

What I am attacking is the liberal ideas that one can not raise their children to be grounded in the facts and we can not show them the way to go.

Both of my children are grown up move out of the house. They are very indenpent, conseveratives, pro hunting pro gun and both are supporting them selves with good jobs.

If we as hunters don't bring up the next hunters to to well grounded we well lose them.

Damn, if only you had the chance to share this wisdom with Dick Cheney.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:
...What I am attacking is the liberal ideas that one can not raise their children to be grounded in the facts and we can not show them the way to go.

Both of my children are grown up move out of the house. They are very indenpent, conseveratives, pro hunting pro gun and both are supporting them selves with good jobs.

If we as hunters don't bring up the next hunters to to well grounded we well lose them.

Nail on the head. My children are MY children. How I raise them is up to me.

If I don't give them the facts (and not the facts as I SEE THEM) all is lost.

Hunting benefits EVERYONE.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
p dog shooter, your missing the whole point here.

You made an assumption about some one with out gathering any other information, 90 seconds and this guy is an Anti-Hunter in your book.

Iguess that makes any of us that have no desire to kill an African Lion or a Hippo or a Rhino an Anti-Hunter.

I believe in killing coyotes on sight. I know huters and land owners that would not kill one unless they had to, does that make them Anti-Hunters????

Hunting is a privileged, not a right, and the majority of game laws were instituted at the insistence of hunters.

You seem to want to get belligerent simple because other people don't look at hunting the same way you do, that is wrong on so many levels as to be pathetic.

I have to agree the original poster is missing the point
This jogger probably saw the gangs around and the trucks and was curious as to what was up
the way it(hunting method) was related to him would draw a negative impression from anyone

Big difference between doing what you want because you enjoy it and going over the top to rub it in their faces. IMO some of the videos I have seen of hunts on TV and on the net have done more to help the anti hunt movement than walt disney and his fantasies ever could. While I personally believe-don't cave in, don't give an inch on your rights as a hunter, not one friggin inch, I also try to be very aware of how I and my actions am viewed. When engaging anti/non hunters in discussion, be prepared, have facts, real honest to god indisputeable information, this can and will sway the thinking of those who are not totally lost, which let's face it, only a very small percentage cannot be swayed or shown the light and we don't need them anyhow. P Dog, I wasn't there and don't critique you in any way for how you handled it, as I happen to know for a fact a lot of nuance is lost on the net, body language, tone, and all sorts of interactions that happen face to face con never be replecated with written words, but I encourage all of my fellows, think about your actions and words, and how you would perceive them from the other side and act accordingly, and probably the best thing you could do, take a young person hunting who may otherwise never get the chance.

DUK, Many Thanks for your input.

Too damn many of my fellow Americans and Texans, seem to believe that hunting is a Right, Guaranteed By The Constitution or the Bill Of Rights, It Isn't.

It is a Priveldge, one that if a person does not follow the rules and regulations, that by the way were formulated at the behest of Hunters, to protect species from over harvest, said hunter will lose that Priveledge.

I am not a parent, but have taught Hunters Ed for the state of Texas in the past, and I can tell anyone open minded enough to listen, It Does Not Matter What A Parent Teaches A Kid, Or How Hard they Try To Teach It, Some Kids/People Are Just Never Going To Get The Fever, and Will Never Be Hunters, And In Point Of Fact, The Harder A Parent Tries To Force The Concept Down That Childs/Persons Throat, The Farther Away From Hunting And Everything To Do With It, That Person Will Drift.

P Dog Shooter, I see you are from Wisconsin, what is your take or opinion on hunting Mourning Doves as a Game Bird?

Were you raised up with the concept that Mourning Doves are Game Birds or Song Birds?

quote:

Originally posted by CVC:
Sometimes I get so frustrated with the myopic and misguided views of "hunters."

Somehow you think that just because you're right, the rest of the world will automatically come to that conclusion.

The point here is not whether or not some animals are off-limits to hunting or giving in to the anti's - it is how we approach the subject of hunting with others, whether they be hunters or not.

No one suggests being ashamed of being a hunter, just use tact and discrection when interacting with someone who may not share your beliefs.

And for the record, P Dog, I think my daughter has the right to choose which animal she wants to hunt or not to hunt.

She doesn't need training as I've raised her to be an independent thinker and to arrive at her own conclusions.

Let me share how I responded to my daughter when she told me not to hunt wolves. I told her that I would focus on getting an older wolve that was past his prime and most likely going to die anyway except his death would be quick instead of slow and painful if left to nature.

She said ok, that makes sense.

Tact and reason can sometimes overcome emotion.

Well said.

Pdog. Grow up. You are giving us all a bad name and it isn't appreciated.

I grew up in a family that did nothing to "ground me" in good ol hunting traditions. I even went to university and got a few degrees. I took up hunting on my own because I see value in the experience.

To you, I'm probably an anti-hunter. I don't kill predators in general because I see it as wasteful (I'm not a rancher so I don't lose cattle or anything. People who are have much more valid reasons for killing coyotes than I do). I also don't shoot prairie dogs for target practice or to "watch them explode". I've been offered the chance and declined it. Guess that makes me anti-hunting.

But I do hunt. I also realize that there are people in this community with different values and opinions than me. I'm not afraid of this and am willing to discuss my choices and the reasons behind them with anyone. Hunter or non-hunter (even anti-hunter). This has always turned out to be a productive way to go (well, maybe 95% of the time). My wife (who has been vegetarian for most of her life) even participates.

The way you approached the situation and the way you deal with some of the criticism expressed here shows a serious lack of tact.

It isn't helpful.

quote:

Originally posted by Steve Latham:
Anti's are the same the world over, the enemy, they are happier to see dead dairy cattle rather than dead badgers where I'm from, since we had to stop legal fox hunting, my buddies & I are falling over the foxes round here, we shoot em on site three nights a week, I even heard one dummie spout off how he wished the cows would stop lowing through the night! the whole thing is going tit's up due to some p.c. git who's got themselves a bit of leverage in high places. Although I never had a need to shoot or own pistols, we lost the right to, now illegal pistol shootings have gone through the roof!

I know of some people locally who moved in downwind of a dairy farm then complained about the smell of the manure from the farm... and even sued the farmer!

Fortunatly reason prevailed and the judge's professional demeanor slipped... he started laughing as he headed for his chambers after dismissing the case...



AD

Guys,

It would seem that a lot of hunters believe that non hunter=anti hunter and that could not be farther from the truth. Most non hunters just know very little about hunting if anything. I had dinner with some people in London that didn't even know that people went hunting in Africa anymore and the Brits are probably responsible for the start of Safari as a business. These people were very open to hearing about how hunting benefited everybody including the animals. I think people like this are the majority and can be educated without getting in their face and acting like a neanderthal.

A rabid anti hunter as others have stated is a lost cause and probably can't be educated because their beliefs are based on emotion and not facts. The majority that are blissfully ignorant about hunting can be educated. Better us do the educating than the anti hunters.

Mark

Here's one of the columns I wrote way back in the early 1980s.


WHY?

A few months ago I invited a new acquaintance and his wife to a party at my house. I had met Kevin at a seminar for writers at a local community college. We became friendly over the three nights and seemed to get along quite well, even to the point of sharing several interests. Unfortunately, I didn't meet his wife Joan before extending the invitation.

Big mistake!

Although I didn't know Joan, early on I sensed she was upset about something. She was quiet, rarely uttering more than "thank you" when I handed her a fresh drink. But the whole time she sat in the living room, I could see her occasionally gazing at the walls.

Then it hit me; it was the two dozen or so trophy mounts hanging on the walls. A couple hours later, she confirmed my suspicions.

"Did you kill all these animals?"

I nodded. "Yes. It's a collection of many years and many hours spent in the outdoors. In fact, whenever I look at one of the animals on the wall, I often drift back in time, and it's amazing how much detail I remember. I normally recall most everything about the hunt, from the location to who was with me and what the weather was like. Yet, I usually can't remember what happened last week."

Joan smiled a bit, but I could see it was more perfunctory than genuine. Then she dropped the bomb.

"I'm not much into killing things, especially wild animals that never hurt anyone. You certainly can't tell me you killed all these beautiful creatures because you needed them for food."

Without showing it outwardly, I thought to myself, "Here we go again." I tried to be polite.

"You're right. I didn't kill them all for food, though I did eat the meat from them. Let's just say the game meat supplemented my domestic food supply -- a healthy alternative of sorts. Mainly, I killed them because that's what hunting is all about. To some, not killing something when the opportunity arises might border on dishonesty. I hunt because I enjoy the outdoors and everything about it. I still relish the years when my kids hunted with me. They provided me the opportunity to teach them about the outdoors and nature. So in reality the killing is only a small part of what hunting is all about. "

"So then why don't you go out in the woods with an empty gun, enjoy the hunting part and just say "bang" when you find your victim? Or since you're a wildlife photographer, too, maybe you should just let your camera serve as your gun, huh? "

This time I couldn't help but chuckle aloud. "Yea, I could do all of that, Joan, but I wouldn't be hunting as I see it. Without really having at least the opportunity to kill game, it simply becomes something else. The latter is taking pictures, not hunting."

Joan and I went back and forth for a few more minutes. Then when the other guests started to leave, Kevin and Joan did, as well.

Afterward, I thought about how many times I had been in similar conversations with others like Joan and realized it's a never ending process. Though I've honed some of my arguments over the years, I too often find myself groping for the right ways to say them. About a month ago, however, I received a message on one of the hunting sites I visit on the Web.

The message was a post-hunt report from a gentleman in California. He had asked me last spring for a suggestion on a guided elk hunt. I put him in touch with an outfitter in Idaho. So Jimmy and his friend booked their hunt and spent seven days in the Selway-Bitterroot Wilderness Area.

Here's what he said:


Tony,

We got shut out, but we have no complaints. The weather didn't cooperate with us; it was hot the entire week. Jerry did get a whitetail, a very small one. I haven't let him forget it. <g>

We had an excellent guide named Darrel. He was a good hunter, but he was from Colorado and didn't know our area. So it made things a little difficult.

We hunted Battle Ridge. You may know the area. Strange place! I pride myself on my uncanny ability to know exactly where I am at all times but Battle Ridge tested my built-in homing instincts to the max. While we never were so far lost as to lose track of Idaho, it did make finding the camp in time for lunch quite an experience. Our guide had troubles as well.

We saw one elk the day before the season began, I knew at the time we had jinxed our chances. <smile> A couple of days later I spotted a bull but only for a second. We heard almost no bugling at all. Overall I consider the hunt to be one of the most enjoyable I've ever been on. It was intensive and focused, the way I prefer to hunt.

Art was a great guy, a virtual encyclopedia of knowledge.

I believe two or three elk were missed by other hunters while we were there. One was a missed 25-yard shot from a resting position, according to Art's son Dean. No bushes, no trees, a clear shot. Incredible. I can't imagine how that can happen. I think I'd have been afraid to have him around me after that.

We saw some beautiful country, ate great food and gained a couple of pounds. We made some good friends from Pennsylvania, (hunters as well). We saw moose, bear, grouse, stupid chickens (a new one for me <smile>, and mountain quail--although Art says they don't exist there. He's wrong.

We got more exercise than I needed, saw more stars than I knew shined, talked long into the night of all matter of philosophical topics, and didn't forget those topics of a much lighter vein. The long, steep climbs afforded us many deep breaths of clear mountain air. We drank from springs that poured forth water as clean and sweet as how I remembered water tasting from my youth. We stalked silently and heard the sounds of the forest sing to us like violins. We warmed ourselves by the fire; we cooled ourselves with spring water. We smelled wild mint, and pine, and things I don't know the names of. We smelled sweat.

For a week I didn't think of my farm, nor worry about it. We hiked beyond what we thought our endurance would allow, and yet returned after seven days refreshed and renewed in spirit. I think it was a success, I think it was worth it. And I think I'll be going back.

Thanks Tony, for a great hunt. - Jimmy *****.

P.S. - I considered leaving the $10 with Art, but as he said, "The fat lady ain't sung yet."<smile>



It's too bad I received Jimmy's letter a few months after I talked to Joan. If I had it then, I would have printed out a copy and handed it to her with a, "Here's what hunting is all about, Joan."



----- 30 -----

Most anti's, & their kids that I have had interaction with don't even know they are in denial about meat & how it arrives at the plate, They hold forth about this isn't right & that is cruel/or done for gratification, but I would much sooner eat personally hunted wild meat/game/fowl, If I were able to keep it that way, The old joke from my childhood comes back to mind, "Mummy,Mummy, I found a Cows nest!" (Carrying a crate of milk)

Carazyhorse

I was very much in favor of the dove season in Wis. We frougt long and hard to get it. I went to many a spring conservation hearings and spoke out for it. I took many freinds and had them vote and speak for it.

A couple of freinds and I formed the Wis crow hunters assocation and were a big part in getting a crow hunting season in Wi. Now one can legally hunt them with calls and decoys. I went to many a spring hearing and spoke in favor of that also.

I went to many a spring hearing a spoke out in the mid 70/s for being able to hunt with handguns in Wis.

I have along history of dealing with anti's of both kinds.

Some of are worse enenmys are hunters who don't hunt that game. Saying why do we need a season on that I don't hunt it. They give the anti's lots of ammo.

Or gun owners who say I don't need a AR Iam happy with my single shot rifle.

I have dealing with antis for a very long time. People who truley don't care or on the fence one can reason and give them facts

True antis well never be happy untill all hunting and guns are banned.

THAT IS ALL HUNTING AND ALL GUNS ARE BANNED NOT JUST THE TYPES YOU DON'T LIKE

hunting maybe a priveledge where you come from
but i will never define it as such, a priveledge can be taken away and partner NO ONE
will ever take my RIGHT to hunt away from me.
take away my firearm and i'll use a bow
take away my bow and i'll build a snare,pitfall
drop block,sharpened stick,or use the bumper of my truck.
the human animal evolved into the human we are today thru the planning,organizing and communincating about hunting and the pursuit of
food, shelter and safty.
made our brains grow and developed our ability to "reason" thru trial and error.
we all have in our genes the animal instinct to hunt,missdirected in todays world to represent the pusuit of "other prey" cars,stamps,money,
power.....
the predatory instinct is the same, the prey has changed.
my hunting isn't up to discusion,i don't care if it is acceptable or not,to people who would starve if someone didn't provide a meal for them. what they think has no merit in my world.
but you want to give them more ammunition to ruin your day?
keep putting on tv the scenes of
someone pulling the trigger on something and the laughs and giggles that follow and then walking up one a downed animal and never even showing any respect for the creature,never even laying a hand on it and the first thing out of the "hunters" mouth? "Damn, Bill whadda ya think this one will score?"
we don't even have to talk to them in the field
don't even have to invite them to our house for dinner.
just keep promoting the band of bubbas that represent us, in the comforts of "their" own home

OW - what a great post and story.

P Dog Shooter, from what I am seeing in your posts, and the replies that are being given here, None Of Us Are Your Damned Enemy, But You Are Acting That Way And It Is Bull Shit Arguements Like This One That Give The Anti's That Can Harm Us The Most Ammunition.

I grew up dove hunting here in Texas and have hunted crows a couple of times, fun, and for the doves I enjoy it, but that don't mean that all hunters do OR THAT ALL HUNTERS HAVE TO.

I don't like AR's. I don't care how many you own or how much you want to shoot them or what you want to shoot with them and I don't want to see you or anyone else lose that Right, but don't label me as anti gun or anti-hunting simply because I do not want to own one or shoot one, and don't label me as a fence rider.

The point some of us are trying to get across is that there are ways to have a conversation with non-hunters or anti-hunters and there are ways not to.

If this Great Anti-Hunter that you dealt with for 90 seconds had been a real Anti-Hunter, your little group would have probably had a visit from a Game Warden or some othe Local Law enforcement Officer with in a very short time after your conversation with the jogger, because a real Anti-Hunter would have got on the phone and went to rallying the troops A.S.A.P. after that conversation.

You seem to have the attitude that another hunter/gun owner does not have the Right to Not like some forms of hunting or not like some firearms.

If that is the way you feel toward other hunters/gun owners, then you are just as fucking pathetic as the most devout Anti-Hunter/Anti-Private Gun Owner follower.

Actually you are worse, because you are willing ready to split gun owners/hunters into groups and those that do not believe as you do are not worthy of recognition.

That is total bull shit and you need to re-evalute your stance on the issue because it is people with your type attitude that give the antis fuel for their fires.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

True antis well never be happy untill all hunting and guns are banned.

THAT IS ALL HUNTING AND ALL GUNS ARE BANNED NOT JUST THE TYPES YOU DON'T LIKE

100% on the mark!

Crazy horse matter of fact we had a vist from the local warden. I go pheasant hunting with him we had a nice talk and my in law enforement job we work so of the same area. So happened to be on the same road that I saw the jogger on.

What I don't like is others who call themself pro hunting or pro gunners then go out of the way to help the anti's.

I wasn't refering to any one special.

But if you fit the bill then I am talking about you.

You wouldn't belive how many so called hunters so called gun owners who got up in the meetings and said I hunt,I own guns but You should not hunt those doves they come to my bird feeder.

Or how many came out when we were trying to get handgun hunting who stood up and say hell all I need is my 06 we don't need those hand guns out in the woods.

You asked a question I andswer it Re read my post at no time did I say I was writing about you or any other member.

Or does it come to close. If it does so be it.

Maybe your the one that eeds to re-read your posts.

It is the attitude that if someone else does not support? hunting the way you think you do, then they are part of the problem.

With you, it is a Black and White, All or Nothing attitude.

You can't stop long enough to understand that your attitude is alienating other hunters, people in fact that may hunt more than you do, or ever have.

Just because a person does not believe in hunting a species, whether it is a dove, a coyote, or a bull elephant, that does not make them an anti-hunter or your enemy, except that you choose to make it that way.

We all set around and speculate on when hunting will end, and then we have folks like you that want to draw lines in the sand and say your either on this side or that side and there is no middle ground.

Well, in my opinion, your wrong.

As long as I am willing to support the way you choose to hunt or the firearms you choose to own, whether I totally agree with either or not, Should Be Good Enough, but for you and people like you it isn't and that is WRONG.

If they stand up in a public meeting and appose expanding Hunting and Gun owning. Then they are my enemy.

If they are welling to sell other hunters and gun owners down the river to save themselfs then they are my enemy.

Over the years I have seen way to many of them willing to give over others to save their sport.

Bow hunter willing to cut gun seasons gun hunters willing to cut bow seasons. Bear bait hunters willing to throw hound hunters under the bus ect ect.

I surport any expansion of hunting and gun owning.

You don't like black and white.

Would you andswer one of my first question I put to you what have anti hunters and antigunners given up.

Nothing

They just keep on taking and taking if you belive that playing nice with them well save you you are wrong.

Remember before 34 one could buy any type if weapon one wanted full auto, cannon ect.

Before 68 one could still buy full auto and any other type of fire arm through the mail. Full autos one just had to send a a reg form into ATF and your full auto was registered.

I am sure alienating you so what. It sound your willing to sell others down river.

I am not talking about the fence sitters a Iam talking about the hard core anti's, who would do away with all hunting and gun ownership.

Play nice with them all you want. Iam done playing nice with people who want to stop all hunting and all firearms ownership. Because all it gets you is less then what you had.

Iam willing to compromise Lets do away with 86 full auto ban then lets do away with the back gound checks on rifles and shot guns first.

Then after a couple of years lets do away with 1968 gun control act then we can work on the 34 one.

I can say that the first part of your post I do agree with.

quote:

If they stand up in a public meeting and appose expanding Hunting and Gun owning. Then they are my enemy.

If they are welling to sell other hunters and gun owners down the river to save themselfs then they are my enemy.

Over the years I have seen way to many of them willing to give over others to save their sport.

Bow hunter willing to cut gun seasons gun hunters willing to cut bow seasons. Bear bait hunters willing to throw hound hunters under the bus ect ect.

I surport any expansion of hunting and gun owning.

As for the rest of your post, I don't agree with it, and it is that kind of attitude that gives the anti's their ammunition.

The true anti's gun owenership or huntig have closed minds, nothing any of us do will change that.

Alienating people that vote, simply because they do not agree with you 100% is STOOOOOPID.

Gun owner numbers and hunter numbers are in decline.

Attitudes about gun ownership and huting have changed drastically over the last 20 years and I do not see them getting any better, Do You.

So the option available to us, is to stop this BS argueing among ourselves and work toward covincig all those undecided folks in the middle that Private Gun Ownership and Hunting are both beneficial to the future of this country.

Now do you have a problem with that?

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
I'm hearing a lot of BS out of yall who want to placate to the anti's. ...Yall are gut less! You hunt because you like it and trying to explain it away in a intelligent way that makes you sound like your doing the animal a favor is pathetic. Stand up for what you do and don't deny its enjoyment. ..

Yall ...are the best thing the anti's have going...help from with in.

Hey Perry, You and I don't agree about some things, but in this instance you are absolutely 100% correct.

People that whimper off because they are challenged about Hunting don't help a thing. The "skinners" of the world are doing their best to make Shooting and Hunting so expensive that the average folks will not be able to afford to do enough Practice to ensure clean 1-shot Kills. ANYONE that thinks they are going to change what little amount of mind that fools like skinner have are only fooling themselves.

The concept that anyone can talk an Anti-Hunter into becoming a Pro Hunter is as stupid an idea as I've ever heard. Any of you that believe that really need a heavy dose of Reality and loose the Disney Land mentality.
-----

Hey p dog shooter, The only mistake you made was being sociable to the fool.

How many did you all Kill?

Well, well another Dale Carnegei graduate sticks his head up, my my.

Having missed the total point of most has what has been said on here, lets see if you can understand this concept.

P Dog has a 90 second conversation with someone, and simply because they were not slobbering and pulling on themselves about chasing coyotes with dogs, he labels them as an Anti Hunter.

He has no idea whether that person was an Anti-Hunter or the Anti-Christ.

I don't believe that anyone that has responded feels that they can turn an Anti Hunter or Gun Owner in to a Pro-Hunter or Pro-Gun Owner.

All most folks are trying to point out is that is really helpful to the cause of Hunters and Gun Owners To Not Alienate People That You Don't Know what Their Stance Is On The Issue.

This is not Rocket Science or Mensa Candidate stuff, it is common sense.

Just because a person does not agree with one form of hunting or another That Does Not Make Them An Anti Hunter, it just means they don't like something.

I have dealt with as many or possibly more anti-hunters and Non-Hunters as any of you, having worked in a Public Zoo for close to 25 years.

True Anti hunters I don't even waste my breath in trying to talk to them, but even when dealing with one of those people it takes me about 5 minutes to get figured out their leanings, sometimes a little faster because they are so adamant about it.

Some Non-Hunters however, may just not like hunting themselves, but, they have no problem eating game meat after they try it a time or to.

I have even seen some confirmed vegetarians ease back on their convictions when fresh game meat hit the table.

One thing or concept that seems to have eluded some of you somehow, is that about 10% of the population are hunters and 10% are total whacked out Anti-Hunters, while 80% of the population are basically neutral with no real leanings either way.

It is that 80%, that can and do vote, that can make really radical changes in the way hunters are able to enjoy their sport, and any one of that 80% can be influenced positively or negatively, concerning hunting by one brief 90 second encounter.

If we come across as Knuckle Draggers that seem to have contempt for everyone else that isn't, iot will definitely not help the image of hunters in that persons mind and possibly the next time they are at the polls and a issue about hunting is on the ballot. JMDO.

Crazy,

on your last post!!!