If you had to select one bullet style for every animal from prarie dogs to Polar Bears what would it be? Does such a versatile performer exist?

Numerous calibers and guns are ok but only one bullet style..! Looking for the 30-06 of bullets here..

Wstrnhunter,

ANY bullet will kill a prairie dog; not every bullet will penetrate well enough to kill big bears (or anything else) reliably.

Pick a bullet based on your most difficult quarry.

George

Also remember that it's pretty flat, for the most part where prarie dogs live and you don't want a 180gr .30 cal bullet skipping across the prarie for a mile or more!

From the topic name, I thought somebody shot an obnoxious purple dinosaur!

Nosler Partition. Great balance between accuracy and performance.

180 or 200 Partition in .30 caliber.

Works even in Mayberry or on skipping dinosaurs.

"I love you, You love me ...." C'mon! You all know the words, join in!

Sorry, had a dose of that brand of TV nausea this morning.

Redial

Must be sierra Match Kings.

Johan

Skip the prarie dogs anything will kill them, I suspect a Woodleigh, Nosler, GS Custom or Northfork, would handle any job that came up.

I didnt think of the dinosaur but a bullet would be bound to improve his disposition.. I was thinking of Opys buddy..

Pumpkinheaver,

Whats a pumpkinheaver? Any gun any caliber any size bullet and as many of each as you need, just one bullet "style", and not JUST prarie dogs and bears but everything else inbetween as well.

IS there a bullet thats good enough for all of them? I expected lots of yea's for the partition. It is a solid and versatile design. Would it be too much penetration for some of the smaller game though like Antelope or cyotes etc.? Would a classical SP in a larger caliber be enough for a massive Bear and/or more deserving of the "most versatile bullet" title?

The bottom line is I know many guys here like the idea of specializing their loads for a specific purpose which makes sense to a point but doesnt their come a time on the hunting grounds where maintaining "some" versatility could be a good thing? Is some of the recent bullet technology possibly taking us away from the fundamentals of what a bullet NEEDS to do to perform in the varrying scenarios that we sometimes find ourselves in?

This seems to me to be a case of mental masturbation--and is unnecessary. Were it me (and it frequently is), I would and do buy what I need when I need to fill the need of the moment.If it could all be done with one caliber and bullet, we would possibly all sport the same boring gun and ammo-------yech!!! Chuck

I think that bullet selection is VERY important and worthy of disgussion. If you dont want to contribute anything usefull then by all means feel free not to.

Let me guess, you like partitions. Well, if so you ARE using the same BORING ammo as everyone else!!

Maybe the frontal area of partitions is strongly subject to seperation. I would almost bet on it!

Ive decided to try some spire point interlocks on Elk this year. Its a traditional bullet with a complex design over 40 years in the making..
I think that they MAY be the most versatile/reliable bullet on the market..

I hate to say this and can hear the angry mob forming outside my front door even as I type...but I've heard about Nosler partition bullets to the point of nausia. Sometimes I think this website is run by Nosler...not Saeed. And everyone who posts is expected to say something grand about Nosler bullets.

Well, I've got a confession to make. I've never shot a nosler partition and doubt I ever will. Why? Because I don't think they are worth what they cost. I have to laugh that they think their partition bullets are worth TWICE the cost of everyone else's bullets. BS. I think Nosler has tried to capatalize on the idea that their bullets can make up for poor marksmanship for the most part.

Somehow I've hunted for 45 years and had pretty spectacular results with just the "worthless" old Sierra, Speer and Hornady? And I've been around scads of other big hunters who have done exceedingly well also. Most of them can't even spell Nosler.

Give me a break guys! Nosler ISN'T the only bullet maker. There is nothing magic about his bullets...except the price. Short of a trip to Africa for the biggest and baddest of critters, I'll take a good Hornady, Sierra or Speer up against anything. And if I can hit them where they ought to be hit...I betcha they come home with me...not vice versa.

There, I feel better for getting that off my chest. Let the lynching begin. I go to my maker with a clear conscience. (At least about bullets. )

[ 06-27-2002, 08:00: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

Gee Pecos, how do you REALLY feel?

The Partition is the gold standard for a good reason. Sure, there are other great bullets and many folks are completely happy with them.

Here's the cheap bastid in me coming out - I already have untold millions (yeah, right) tied up in rifle, gear, etc. All to launch a small representitve of my intent toward the object of that intent. The elk doesn't care if you're warm and dry in your zillion dollar outfit, all he feels is your bullet. Only your bullet. Even cheap old Redial will pop the extra quarter for a bullet I'm confident in.

Personally, I'm primarily a target shooter so I get to do enough experimenting already. Hunting is where I look for surety. I owe it to the animal, at least if not myself. I prefer to chase BEFORE the shot.

I would agree that the worship of Noslers on the board is becoming cult-like. I like and use them, but ...

Cheers

Redial

[ 06-27-2002, 19:08: Message edited by: redial ]

Thanks for the reply, Redial. My problem is with the cult-like mentality of Nosler shooters. I would just like to sit them all down in a nice quiet room without any peer pressure and ask them, "How in the world did you EVER get by or effectively kill anything before you got that first box of Noslers?"

I've read so many posts here on the forums with everyone talking Noslers this and Noslers that, until finally the sickness starts infecting me and EVEN a chinchy old devil like me starts feeling afraid to leave the house without his Noslers! That's when the little voice squeeks in my ear and says, "BS!" And I flash back over the 1,000's or rounds I've fired in a hell of a variety of firearms and somehow done just great....without the flippin Noslers! I don't know if this makes me an idiot or a genius.

Granted all my hunting has been for what is classified as "thin skinned game." But, you know what....if I were suddenly going to hunt some of the big boys, brown bear, Moose, the African antelope.....I still wouldn't run to Nosler. I would just get me a bigger Hornady, Sierra or Speer and I really believe in my heart of hearts that if I did MY part, these bullets would do theirs.

Am I the only one left in the civilized world who thinks this way? Maybe I just have a terminal case of "Cussedness."

Ray Atkinson - Care to tell me where I went wrong on the path of life? You've seen a fair amount of bullets fly to and fro. Your thoughts on the "Nosler Cult?"

Redial, I do totally agree with your position that we need to pick a GOOD and PROPER bullet to do our bidding...and not just grab something because it's cheap.

I guess what I'm kinda saying is that it hasn't seemed to me that more expensive necessarily equated to BETTER.

I DO pick a bullet that I believe matches my game.
It just ain't the "N" word.

Now Pecos, your not falling in line with the rest of the sheep! I do think the Nosler is a pretty solid design and cant blame those who like it for doing so but its just not for me either.

On their sales brochure Nosler shows one picture of a spent round, the frontal core is non existent and the jacket is completly folded against itself and they have the cahonas to call that "superior mushrooming characteristics". Under even semi-sensible circumstances I cant see a standard bullet doing much worse than that. I dont see a partition having any edge over a well selected GS whatsoever.

Even the Noslers and Barnes bullets try to adhere to the mushroom design thats been working for numerous years, they just profess to do it better but thats BS, none of them have achived perfection by any stretch of the imagination.

[ 06-28-2002, 07:42: Message edited by: Wstrnhuntr ]

Thanks, Western. I guess that makes two "crazies" out running loose.

And I'm not saying Nosler's aren't good bullets. They LOOK good. They make them SOUND good. And there are a lot of fellows on here convinced they are good. So I reckon Nosler's got something going for them.

It just makes me wonder if a lot of folks haven't forgotten the other bullet makers build some mighty good stuff too...and usually cheaper!

Trophy Bonded Bear Claw is my first choice, followed by the Woodleigh, Swift A-Frame, then Nosler Partition, in that order.

Well...if I were going to limit myself to just one bullet I would choose the Winchester Fail Safe, regardless of what the caliber might be.
I would back that up with...oh no, a NOSLER PARTITION!

Pecos-
I sure won't throw any dirt at you for not liking Noslers, but how can you knock them if you have never tried the bullets? I know there are folks who just take another's word on something and plunk down whatever amount is necessary to get "that" bullet for their hunt. But for a lot of folks who have tried the rest and then switched to the Noslers, there has to be something good about their performance to make us keep paying the extra cost! I've hunted for about 40yrs now and unlike you, have had several instances where my Hornady and Sierra bullets just failed to perform anywhere near as expected. I have never had a Nosler or Fail Safe do this, and that's why I won't trust the others any longer.

John, you're right. I can't knock Noslers because I've never tried them. And I'm not knocking the product. I'm just griping about the price. And I guess I'm griping because I'm really getting seriously interested in my guns again after a few years of doing very little......and what do I find when I come back to my guns? Just this...you guys haven't been standing still waiting on me! An alarming amount of what I knew is either obsolescent or at least clouded by all sorts of new things. If I were younger, I would get excited. But since I'm older, I feel threatened by all this new fangled gadgetry.

And I've listened to this Nosler Cult till you guys have me afraid to shoot anything but a Nosler! Hell, I feel like I ought to have a partition to go after jackrabbits....in spite of the fact I've killed a few thousand of them with other bullets.

Mostly, John, I'm just a cantankerous old fool and don't nobody pay me no mind. I'm pretty harmless.

My son is going to go after Elk this fall and I reckon I'll break down and load him up some blessed Noslers. I'd blame myself forever if one got away from him and I hadn't used a Nosler.

Pecos-
I think all of us want to shoot/load the best ammo for a particular job, or at least what we feel is the best for our own needs. Trying to save a few nickels ain't all bad either!
But being penny wise and pound foolish can and will get a hunter into trouble sooner or later, just a matter of time and enough hunts.
For elk hunting, I will never be convinced that a premium bullet such as the Nosler, Swift or Fail Safe isn't a better way to go than any conventionally designed bullet. For deer or antelope it is more up to the guy doing the loading.

I've got buddies who are on the Nosler band wagon--Only noslers etc etc etc. I've taken 16 elk & on none of them did I use a nosler. Most were taken with 180 grain Remington "Core-lokt"--all were just as dead & none went more than 60 yards. It's not what you shoot them with but where you shoot them. The only place is behind the front shoulder.

I drew a sheep tag a few years ago & started to hand load. I use a 180 grain spire point "Hornady" & it's accurate out of my 30/06. It will have 4 touching at 100 yards & the 5th is generally a flyer about 1/2 to the left. Warm barrel or me (who knows) Anyway I use this load now & it works. I took a 7/8 curl ram & a nice 6x6 last October. The ram took 3 steps then fell, the bull went about 5o yards then down.

You need to hit them where it counts behind the front shoulder. NO TEXAS HEART SHOTS FOR ME !!!!

John S,

What game were you hunting when your Hornady or Sierra bullets failed to perform? From the sound of the following post you made I dont think it was Elk. Elk is about the toughest thing I get around to hunting myself so that sort of nullifies the need for me to have anything more than a standard SP design, but I know that other game will certianly require more penetration. Its when I see posts about highly reccomending NP for whitetail or something of that nature that I think the partition cult goes to far.
For that I think there should be plenty room for debate involving nearly any bullet available.

Westernhunter--Hey, Bud--maybe I'm the one getting old and crotchety here, not Pecos. Sorry--I didn't intend to ruffle any feathers. Actually, my first 3 elk and 60 or so deer were shot with core-locts. And then you are right for the next10 elk and about 75 deer--Nosler partitions. These days I use roundballs for everything, and am convinced that there is nothing better! I like Noslers because they have NEVER failed me, and they are made in Oregon--the best place to support if you live here! Sometimes I get a little reactive to the idea that there is somehow a magic bullet--there is not. I see a lot of younger shooters believing that super-fast somehow-smart bullets, gigantic scopes etc are what it takes to take game. That elk medicine is at least a .338 mag---you know. I think a 2X7X33 scope is just right, a .308, 30-06, or 7 mag is all you need for elk. All I need is a .54 cal traditional muzzleloader, roundball, and peep sights (cause I can't see open sights any more). I guess I think too many of us are duped by salesmanship and not marksmanship. And I don't think you are necessarily one of those...Chuck

All of the instances I referred to were on deer and antelope here in the states, plus a few plains game species in Africa.
Notice I didn't say those bullets failed, but rather they didn't perform as I expected or would have preferred.
As an example, last fall my son and I were hunting mule deer in eastern Colorado. He was using my old M70 in 270, all loaded up with 140gr Hornady BTSPs. His chance came on a buck we jumped from a patch of oak brush, deer quartering away at a distance of roughly 35 or 40 yards. Bullet entered the chest cavity and angled forward and the deer ran maybe 20 yds before collapsing.
I fully expected to see an exit wound from this shot as there were no major bones hit, just a rib bone going in. I found a very few small pieces of jacket and core but that was it. The bullet definitely came apart, but we tagged the deer. Did it fail? I don't believe it did but I was not and will not ever be satisfied with that type of terminal performance.
Another example would be an antelope I shot last fall, again with the 270. This time the bullet was a 130gr Ballistic Tip and again, no exit. Shot was from 200yds or so and the bullet killed the antelope quite dead but nothing but a few small fragments were recovered.
For me, these types of results aren't good enough. I want two holes in a deer or antelope and any bullet that will not reliably give me that type of performance just isn't going to see field use any longer. I can get just as many "drop them in their tracks" type kills with a Nosler partition and have that exit all at the same time!

[ 07-01-2002, 16:34: Message edited by: John S ]

Bullets do fail. It's an occasional fact of life. Now whether or not you've had any less-than-satisfactory performances out of the bullets you've used so far is beside the point. Other people have had bullet failures to contend with, and I'm one of them. That's why premium bullets were invented in the first place.

I've had Hornady, Speer, and Sierra bullets come apart on mule deer and elk, and the resulting lack of penetration either meant another shot had to be applied right away, or else I had a tracking job ahead of me.

For all hunting - from mule deer on up - I prefer to use premium bullets. I've had superb luck with Nosler Partition, Trophy Bonded, Swift A-Frame, and Winchester Fail-Safe projectiles. Pick the one that shoots best in your rifle and go hunting; it's as simple as all that.

Most discussion of this sort really amount to (as Chuck indicated in a slightly different way!) mental gymnastics and little else. If you can afford to hunt ALL species of N. American big game, you can afford more than one rifle and you can afford the cost of the best premium bullets you can lay your hands on. Why step over a dollar to pick up a dime, anyway? A well-built rifle, good optics, and premium bullets are the best sort of insurance policy you can take out on the outcome of any hunt. A mindset of false-economy is out of place.

AD

If this is just cerebral calesthetics then what was it that made Johns bullet fail? I believe that most bullets were designed to function within a particular balistics window. Thats the whole point! My theory is that for a 270 at only 35 to 40 feet he may have been too close to keep that particular bullet from exploding, but then again I wasnt there.

To me, a failsafe or x-bullet are well suited for magnum class velocities just as the flat point is well suited for a 30-30. Likewise anyone who thinks a failsafe is so great that it will do wonders in a 30-30 is not likley to be pleased with the results IMHO.

I find it interesting that if one looks hard enough he can seem to find both praise and/or dislike for nearly any bullet/caliber combination imaginable.

Ive had a history myself of flawless performance from the likes of Speer hot cores especially on mule deer at a number of ranges and velocities. Not one failure in over 20 years! In fact the only deer Ive shot that didnt drop instantly was shot with a 243 and it only went about 15 yds. That too with a SP.

Like the so called premium bullet advocates, I believe Ive found a good thing and Im sticking with it. Incidentally, Hornady considers their interlock to be a premium game bullet. I guess "premium" is in the eyes of the beholder. (or maybe that designation is supposed to be derrived from the wallet of the buyer.)
If I thought that coffing up a few more skins would make the difference between leaving a dead animal somewhere on the mountian and meat in the freezer Id take the plunge for sure, but 20 and 0 tells me thats not the case and I refuse to let a price tag decide that sort of thing for me.

Chuck,

As our aussie friends say, no worries mate!

SSL

Chuck-
That distance was 35 or 40 yards, not feet! I've used Hornady bullets for years, both pre-Interlock and more recently the Interlock variants. In no way do I consider them to be a "premium" bullet but do think of them as a good "conventional" bullet, about like a Core-Lokt. I'd never had one fail to exit until last fall, but then it happened not once, but twice!
Admittedly, two different bullets were used but as the old saying goes, "One time is Shame on You, two times is Shame on Me" so I'm leaving the tin foil bullets to you guys that like 'em. I use high velocity cartridges and don't pick my shots, taking them as they come, as Ray Atkinson likes to say. The few extra dollars are worth the peace of mind for me.