Just wanted to let everyone know about a problem that I have had using 200 grain Nosler Accubonds out of my .300 Weatherby.

Last Fall I was hunting in Northern BC for moose and Mountain caribou. I shot a nice bull caribou, which dropped instantly at the shot with the bullet retaining about 58% of its weight as I recall. The problem was that when I unloaded the rifle I found that the second round down in the magazine had it's plastic tip broken off by the recoil, leaving a rather cavernous hollow-point. The tip was found under the follower in the bottom of my magazine.

I wrote this off as a one time problem and took the same rifle and load on a mule deer hunt in western Wyoming last week. This time, the tip broke off the third cartridge down in the magazine and was again found under the follower on top of the floor plate.

I was interested to see what the effect of the missing tip was, so I fired a three shot group at the range consisting of 2 normal bullets and one with the broken tip. I found that the two normal bullets grouped into .305 (about average for Accubonds in my rifle), while the broken bullet flew over three inches away!

I don't know what the difference would be in terminal performance, but this could really make you miss a follow-up shot at long range!

Between the fairly low weight retention of the Accubond on my caribou and this problem with the tips, I am switching to the 200 grain Barnes TSX, which also shoots into the .300's in my rifle.

Thanks,
Chet

Did any of you see my photos of recovered Accubonds on Mulies? Your 58% weight retention actually was better than the bullets that we recovered.

You may have just had a bad lot - That is what Nosler told me when I sent them my bullets.

These Accubonds are incredible accurate and have high BCs, now, only if Nosler would design them with a stronger jacket, no plastic up front and have a solid copper shank behind the bonded core....OOPS, then they would have just created a North Fork or TBBC!

Seriously, I do hope that these bullets get better- apparently the Ballistic tips went through a few versions before they were left alone. These bullets have great potential, but do NOT act like premium big game hunting bullets should- at least in .30 cal and high velocities.

As someone mentioned, Accubonds act more like " varmint bullets with a bonded core".

Aside from North Forks and TBBCs seems that Failsafes, TSXs and possibly Nosler Partitions should count as premiums.

Never heard of a tip coming off a Nosler bullet and I've shot a LOT of B-Tips. That's strange!I'm pretty settled on avoiding the Accubonds... I sure wish Nosler would see fit to put, say, a black plastic tip on their Partitions... it'd up the BC and eliminate flattened tips which irritate me. That, IMHO, is the only way to "improve" the NP. Guess they could bond the front too!

HEY... that's a new product... NOSLER BONDED PARTITION! You saw it first here folks

You're right Brad.

Unfortunately, they'd end up losing sales from the regular partition, Accubond and Ballistic tip and possibly cause die-hard fans of the Partition to jump ship. Existing customers might use the new NOSLER BONDED PARTITION at the expense of lost sales in the other categories. Personally, I think that they should improve the Partition as you say, but they probably won't as the up front costs and potential risks are too high.

Brad,
On noslerreloading.com there was already the idea of "bonded partition" that was being discussed. I agree, though, if they could just improve the BC a little bit, and stretch it to the .5 mark...that would be the perfect bullet. little bit of boat tail, polymer tip in front? PERFECT

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:

HEY... that's a new product... NOSLER BONDED PARTITION! You saw it first here folks

And they would have to call it a Swift A-Frame as Swift would have them in court immediately. What you just described is a Swift A-Frame.

I can easily live without the plastic tips.

Like the A-Frame was an original idea.

Chuck

A tipped bonded partition is likely to penetrate less, expanding more quickly (tip) and holding that expansion (bonding)

Swift A frames are great but boy do they foul!

quote:

Originally posted by CanadianLefty:
You're right Brad.

Unfortunately, they'd end up losing sales from the regular partition, Accubond and Ballistic tip and possibly cause die-hard fans of the Partition to jump ship. Existing customers might use the new NOSLER BONDED PARTITION at the expense of lost sales in the other categories. Personally, I think that they should improve the Partition as you say, but they probably won't as the up front costs and potential risks are too high.

I think your analysis may be accurate in terms of taking market share from their own products. If that is indeed their thinking, then they're dead wrong. They have already built a bullet in the Accubond that has to have cut into the sales of both the Bal tip and the partition.

I say screw the bean counters who believe that building the best possible bullet will cause the company to lose niche sales. If Nosler would decide to innovate by building the ultimate bullet, they may lose some niche sales however their overall market share would soar.

A CT partition with no moly, bonding or boattail and just a very short poly nose cap would be my ideal hunting bullet. Nosler should build it.

Gabe

Vapo, I dislike how the Swift bulges (soft jacket) and how much it costs... how in the world could Swift sue Nosler when, as Chuck pointed out, the reverse could more easily be the case. Personally, I like plastic tips and think it's one of the smartest innovations to come out in a long time. Too bad Nosler (or anyone) never incorporated them into a "hard" bullet. I could live without bonding and would be completely satisfied to see the standard Partition with a plastic tip... it's really about the only way to improve it.

If the damaged tips are the problem check out the performance of the Woodleigh PP.

They are underrated in my book. They hold up like the NP, and there's no tip to damage.

I've not got loads of experience with the various plastic tipped bullets, but on the deer I've shot with them they worked great. I tested the 200gr Nos BT in the .338WM at top end and it disintegrated. None of them had broken tips that noticed, though I didn't check my magazine after each shot in the field, and single load them from the bench. I shot them up at 'Yotes and Jacks.
As for tipping the NP, I'd try them. The Barnes (various) X's and Woodleighs are fast becoming my favorites. Nate

Are you having this problem with factory ammo or with reloads? If it is reloads I would seat your bullet deeper. As for the tips comming out take a pliers and see how hard it is to pull the tip out. I have tried this before and it is not easy at all to get that tip out. If they come out easy you have a bad batch of bullets.

I am having this problem with handloads. The small plastic shank that holds the tips in the bullet is actually breaking, not seperating from the bullet. Wouldn't seating the bullet deeper (resulting in a shorter OAL) only allow the cartridge to gain more momentum before it slams into the front of the magazine box?

Thanks,
Chet

A stronger spring in your magazine follower would hold the cartridge tighter in the magazine. This might help to prevent the slam forward.

Regards

Chet how close are the tips to the end of the box right now? Are they touching the front of the mag box when you put them in? If not then I would look for a stronger spring as mentioned by Claret_Dabbler.

3 questions:

1. Anyone ever have any problem with a Partition expanding--at any reasonable hunting range?

2. Anyone ever have any problem with a Partition penetrating--at any velocity?

3. Have you ever considered what NOT bonding the front core mean upon impact? A: Hundreds of secondary fragments effecting shot-gun like trauma inside the animal.

Perfect? Maybe not. But we've yet to come to anything even remotely resembling consensus on an "heir apparent" to the Partition.

friar

Point well taken, but

quote:

Hundreds of secondary fragments effecting shot-gun like trauma inside the animal.

This is one of the reasons that I do not use the Partition. My logic (though maybe flawed) is that these fragments shed energy quickly and on an angling shot, may not even reach the vitals before stopping. The rear core then continues, but with a smaller diameter wound channel.

I much prefer a TBBC or NorthFork that expands well, yet holds together causing a larger diameter wound channel over a longer period of time that does reach the vitals and sometimes (because of the solid shank) even gets full penetration.

quote:

But we've yet to come to anything even remotely resembling consensus on an "heir apparent" to the Partition

I think that there are more people who prefer TBBCs or North Forks or TSXs or A-Frames all combined than those that prefer just Partitions.

The great thing is that nowadays we have terrific bullet choices, both traditional premiums like the great Partition and newer ones like the North Fork.

In general, I agree with you that the bonded/solid shank bullets are good, if not great choices; I also am from the school that says, "shoot the bullet your rifle shoots best." In fact, I'm using a 150 gr. 270 A-frame for my elk trip (leaving this Saturday! )

My hunch is that, after shedding the front core, the Partition effects a wound channel similar to the X bullets. And it's true, of course, that its front core will shed in the first few inches of penetration--whether that's in the gut or lung or shoulder.

As with nearly everything in life, choosing a bullet involves a series of trade-offs. Choosing well means trying to anticipate what circumstances will be presented in taking a shot. Choose poorly and a bullet will likely perform poorly; good choices minimize the likelihood of poor performance.

That's why I think the Partition is a good choice, and perhaps the best choice if one is faced with a wide variety of circumstances. That doesn't mean that another bullet wouldn't perform better--but the Partition does provide a high level of assurance that it will perform adequately.

When, with time and experience, another bullet demonstrates a similarly large window of performance, we may have such an "Heir." We may even be upon that day with the bullets mentioned.

In the end, there is only one mechanism which causes wounding--the destruction of tissue. Destroy enough tissue quickly enough and the animal dies in a humane fashion. Some bullets destroy tissue by penetration. Other bullets destroy tissue by expansion/fragmentation.

The Nosler Partition works in both fashions, which is why, in my opinion, it diminishes the likelihood of "failure" more so than any other choice. It does not penetrate as much as some; it does not expand as much as some. It seems to be a good balance, though, of the two.

Good luck this fall, everyone, and have fun!

friar