They says this ranch is very famous for elk hunting. Someone had experience with it? Outfitters? Accomodation? Prices?
Thanks

If you want an elk hunt, and a trophy, go to Arizona or New Mexico, , !

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:
If you want an elk hunt, and a trophy, go to Arizona or New Mexico, the Deseret is a LDS ranch, they will screw you if they can!

What a dumb comment.

Mario, at one time the Deseret Ranch held some of the largest bulls in the West, where a hunter did not have to draw a tag. The ranch is huge and there are a lot of elk there. But, by many hunter's standards, the bulls are not giants. Big bulls yes. On a Deseret hunt you can expect to see hundreds of elk and many mature bulls. B&C scores will average in the 330-340 with a few bulls in the 370s killed every year. The hunts are fully guided and the elk are wild, but hunting big bulls in the rut makes them dumb, not the cows. The ranch has very good accomodations and all elk hunts are fully guided and fair chase.

That said, I personally feel the ranch is over priced, mainly based upon past reputation. But the price is only part of the equation and the experience hunting there is one most who have done it enjoy. A customer of mine shot a bull on Deseret in 2007 which was a great animal. Big long beams, heavy and good tine length (370s). Best of luck in your search.

As for Kudu's comments, well I think anyone can see a bigot when their mouth opens.

kudu56 wrote:

quote:

the Deseret is a LDS ranch, they will screw you if they can!

----

If you are going to make a generalization like that, you should at least include your reasoning.

Do business with them and you will find out!

I am speaking specifically of the Deseret.

I suppose if you've done business with one you've done business with them all?

I hunted buffalo there with my .54 Cal. black powder rifle a number of years back and had a great experience.

I have guided on this ranch since 1990 and in fact ran the Antelope Hunting program for a number of years. Deer hunting on the ranch has never been the same since the winters of 92 and 93 and it's damn hard place to shoot a great deer and future looks bleak in my opinion. Moose, we have taken quite a few B&C bulls. But since this thread is about Elk we will address them only.

As an example: the average bull taken in 2007 scored 345 gross. However this last fall was a bitch finding any number bulls in this category. Perhaps this was due to the protracted winter in 2007. We battled to find any bulls over 345. I guided two hunters last fall and after looking over a hundred bulls settled for a 337 and 339. The largest bull taken last year was a 358 four year old, which was a damn shame. We have shot a few 390 bulls in the past and many in the 360 to 380 class. My personal best with a client was 381. We hunt them during the rut and it is truly a blast if your into " close encounters of the squealing kind". If your looking for a 360 or better bull it is a major long shot in the best of times. However it is possible in a good horn growth year. That is if you can really walk, enjoy getting back to the lodge after dinner is over, pass up bulls to the last hour of the last day and pull off the shot when and if the the opportunity arises. If you like to hunt elk and feel a 330 to 360 bull is good enough it is a great place. I will admit the lodging has not always been the greatest but they built a new lodge last year and it's damn nice. Some hunters and guides feel we shoot to many bulls, It's possible, but as a guide I have no choice but to follow the protocol and direction of the ranches Biology Dept which is top notch and very dedicated. I have no say in the yearly quota numbers. Screwed ? I'm fuzzy on screwed. Have people left disappointed, sure it happens. We have guys miss shots, sometimes we crippled and loose a bull, rarely ever is there a guide conflict, all these are always possible but remote. The guides are competent and well aware that the clients are paying a premium to be there so they're busting their ass to make the hunt a good one. Are there better places to go for 375 and bigger bulls, without any doubt. But they will cost much on the average or the wire marks on the cape and horns make kind of a ratty shoulder mount when it's all said and done. Fish in a barrel it's not.

I have bitched and moaned about what we should do, could do and might due since 1990. What do I know? I'm just a guide. As a guy that loves to hunt and enjoys the chase more than the total sum of the inches in gross antler it is a wonderful place to spend time during the rut.

Since my last post I have had an interested deer hunter call me about my comments on the Mule Deer hunting on Deseret and what the trophy potential one can expect. Trophy Mule deer hunting everywhere in the Rocky Mt West is tough. Deseret certainly has the gene pool and has, does and will continue to produce top end bucks. It is a tough hunt both mentally taxing as well as physically. If done right it requires a lot of glassing, can sometime require a long shot and a pile of patience on the part of the client. It is not for everybody including a veteran Mule deer enthusiast. Like anywhere else some years are better than others, our winter plays a pivotal role on yearly carry over and can cripple age structure and recruitment for years to come. Can you shoot a 200+ class buck on Deseret? Yes. They do pretty much every year, some years a number of them. What is the average you could expect on a guided hunt? probably in the mid 180 class. Not everybody will kill a buck. I'm going to guess and say the success rate is probably 35% but that is only a guess on my part. Shooting a trophy Mule deer on Deseret is by far the toughest hunt with the lowest success rate but will continue to be an annual yearly favorite for those having done well in the past and for those starting out and willing to roll the dice.

Guys,
thanks for the infos. How much they charge for an elk hunt? Ho is the outfitter and he have a website?

Mario

I found this thread of discussion fascinating. I have hunted Deseret Land and Livestock for 42 years. My first hunt at age 8 was on the ranch. I have guided for the past thirteen years as well. There are three outfitters on the ranch. The ranch itself, Bucks and Bulls, and Wild Country Guide Service. I have guided for and hunted as a client with all three. I have been to dozens of orientation meetings, multiple guides and guards summer meetings, and been involved with selling hunts on this ranch. I worked as a hired hand when it was owned by the Garff and Freed family, Mr Hotung, and now the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, or Mormons.

I have never had a client or been a hunter where it was not understood what the expected average B&C score of the animal we were pursuing. That said, most hunters think they will be the lucky one to slam the biggest bull on the ranch. Elk are sold as a 340 average, deer as a 175 – 180 average, depending on the time of year when hunted, and antelope at 74. Personally I have guided a hunter the last three years that killed 376, 395, and 360 (passed a 387 bull the first night – oops), and drew a tag myself this year for Elk. I killed an 8 year old bull that scored 355 and was a beautiful animal, but the winter was cold and long, and the summer turned to drought. Not great horn growth conditions. However, it was crystal clear in my mind what the average bull elk score for the ranch was. There was no dishonesty with me as a hunter, guide, hired hand or guest. I have killed three deer that score above 190, and four antelope that netted over 82 dry.

Therefore, I believe the statement, “They will screw you every time” is boldy false, and would be initiated by one who just doesn’t know the whole story. Certainly there are clients who leave the ranch disappointed or angry. I believe this to be the exception. In my day to day business there are those types every day. There are few places on earth where one can pursue elk, deer, pronghorn, and shiras moose on 200,000 contiguous, deeded acres, with guides, security guards, ranch managers, biologists, and others as can be found on Deseret. Overpriced currently? Perhaps, if one looks only at the B&C score on paper. But if one truly hunts for the experience, where one can hunt a herd of 4000 elk with a bull to cow ratio of 1.2/1 and get in the middle of bugling frenzies where one is surrounded 360 degrees by bulls and cows going nuts, observe the natural behavior of these animals, see God’s great creations unencumbered by human kind’s encroachments, then DLL is a good value.

Can you shoot bigger bulls elsewhere? Sure. However, I have had several clients who had hunted Apache White Mountain and some of the other big three, and had a better overall and more rounded and enjoyable time on this ranch owned by “Mormons”. Their comments over the years as we have corresponded as continued friends, never included any hint of “I got screwed”.

quote:

Therefore, I believe the statement, “They will screw you every time” is boldy false, and would be initiated by one who just doesn’t know the whole story

Never said I hunted with them, I did business with them.

Too bad some guys like to beat things to death, even if they know little. Painting with a broad brush just shows one's bigotted nature.

quote:

Too bad some guys like to beat things to death, even if they know little. Painting with a broad brush just shows one's bigotted nature.

And you could absorb an $18,000 loss and walk away from it and never say so much as a negative statement?

Kudu56,

So, then help us to understand your big picture. What does your business deal have to do with other's hunting on DLLC?

I've not hunterd there. I have a very good friend who has hunted there numerous times and is still going back. I've been there once for a college livestock production class which also gave us a idea of the hunting available there.

A number of years back before Jim Zumbo put his foot in his mouth, he suggested to me to go hunt mule deer there.

So far, I see/hear plenty of respectable people keep giving the thumbs up on DLLC.

Alan