Many will disagree but, I feel that velocity and bullet construction are the primary sources for instant kills.

I have killed dozens of big game animals w/ standard velocity carts such as 30-06, 270, 6mm Rem, 30-30 win, 280 rem, 243 win, etc. etc. I have also killed dozens w/ the fast carts like the 7RM, 270 WBY, etc., etc.

What I have noticed through the kills w/ standard carts is that the animals run almost every time they are hit, even w/ deadly bone breaking hits (except for spine injuries). Dont get me wrong, I have dropped many w/ the standards but, most animals will run a bit.

Now, w/ the higher velocity carts I have had very, very few game animals(Mostly whitetails and wild hogs) run after impact. Most of the game I've shot w/ the magnums has dropped and wiggled alittle but, no long grueling blood trails like w/ the standards. I have noticed on the Bigger whitetails (~250#) they will run more than the smaller breeds of whitetail but, its usually a very short distance if any.

All of this data (Standard and Magnum) was while shooting standard grade bullets such as Rem CLs, Win PPs, HDY SPs, and NBTs.

I will note that on both the mags and the standards that the tough bullets that rip through doing little damage seem to hardly ever drop an animal unless the spine was injured. Most of the time the game I've witnessed shot w/ the tough bullets didn't even act like they were hit unless major bones or the spine were impacted so, I leave them out of the "bang-flop" category.

I'm sure I will get flamed for this but, I'm just not making assumptions off of a small number of examples. You start to see trends when you've taken enough game.

God Bless!

Reloader

Actually I have to agree. Bang-flop reliably comes from crunching major bones, especially the ones with brain/spine in them. Clean heart/lung hits are VERY reliable killers, but even 100 lb C. Texas whitetails will run with a 165 NBT at 3100fps through only their lungs. Not far...but they will get 50-100 yards most of the time....of course that only takes 4-5 seconds to go that far, so I would still classify it a quick, humane kill.

They don't die any faster with a bullet through their shoulders, either...they are just in deeper shock and laying on the ground for those 4-5 seconds.

There are so many variables involved, that it is practically impossible for the "normal" hunter to detect trends. Because that is pretty much all we can detect - trends. Except for hits to the central nervous system (spine, neck, brain), the various shot reactions we will get vary with impact velocity, state of the animal at the time (i.e. at ease or adrenaline filled), exact location of hit, exact damage done and (some even maintain) state of heart and breathing cycle when hit etc etc. For most of us regular hunters (1-30 animals per year, say), we could hunt an entire lifetime and simply not have the data to spell out trends - which are probably there, just hard to nail down. So we all form our own opinions of what we believe are trends. One thinks fast bullets make animals drop faster (at the cost of more meat damage, obviously), one believes bullets X are better than bullets Y, some like large diameter bullets some small, some like fast expanding bullets some penetrators etc etc. None of this is necessarily wrong, but little of it is more than a personal opinion. I for my part have quite simply settled on that I don't know how animals will react - as much as I like and strive for "lights out" reactions to the shot.

Btw, for those of you who dote on spine and neck shots as "immediately killing" shots, I can tell you that they are not. Executed well, they drop the animals pretty quickly, but it takes a while for the animals to expire. Just try it on an animal up close, where you have the option to observe the reaction after the shot. I have seen animals dropped and paralyzed like that still taking several minutes to finally expire. But then again, maybe this just a personal opinion rather than a true trend...
- mike

One thing I definitely believe that is true is the "Temporary Paralyzation" theory that is often mentioned. I try to place most of my shots through the mid lung area right next to the shoulder blade and alot of time the bottom of the spine in that area is damaged alittle. When a high velocity expanding bullet causes alot of shock (whether Hydrostatic or direct impact), I believe it paralyzes the animal for a split second and in that amount of time he is down and isn't gettin' back up. Just another good reason why the HV carts kill so quickly.

I have seen them drop on low heart shots too but, why not just go for the mid lung area, there is so much more room for error.

Reloader

Good Luck!

Reloader

Doc has got it right. Each animal is different. I think the original post however was about the folks, in order to prove their point, will sit up real tall and drawl "well now sonny, I've killed x,xxx deer/elk/hawgs/bear/whatever and never had a single one move out of its tracks. And I use Boy Howdy brand tripple shock x protected point bullets." I think SteveM70 was hinting that he thinks the fellow might be fibbing just a little bit.

Beeman, you nailed it! That is exactly what I was trying to relate. Then sonny goes out without knowing very much more about Uncle Bobs string of drop at the shot kills other than what bullet he was touting and doesn't get the same results as Uncle Bob. Then, He had a bullet failure! What else could it be? Uncle Bob never had a deer move, killed em all in there tracks with this bullet! Now, if only I could remember what brand bullet Uncle Joe uses, he's never had one take more than a couple steps in 20 years

I have seen a few animals that don't take a step before they drop, with heart shots, however, the only consistant shot and drops I have seen are with neck shots.

With a body hit, (behind the shoulder, not through it) the only animals that I see regularily "bang and flop" are pronghorns. That's if they are standing still at the time.

Well, I guess I'll throw my .02 in as well. This is only an observation too.

The last 7 animals that I killed with a rifle were all hit in the shoulder from various calibers and bullet wts. All 7 dropped where standing.

I personally have, to the very best of my recollection, never put a bullet in the shoulder or where the shoulder meets the spine, and not had the animal drop right there.

I have also shot deer behind the shoulder and watched them run or drop. My brother popped a SC deer last year through BOTH shoulders with a 130 b-tip from his 270, but it ran 40 yards.

In summary, who gives a toss. Take your best shot at the kill zone and hope that the critter dies within 100 yards!!