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| one of us |
Maybe we need to play Cowboys and Indians again... I was on a road trip one time, and I stopped on an Indian reservation store to buy some stuff, including a gallon of milk. A couble of the "Indian ladies" in the store made sure that I knew that my price was 3 times the price that they as Indians paid for milk... As they are subdisized by our Tax money by the US government... Also, every duplex residence I drove by on the "Res" had a brand new pickup in front of it. Not to mention all the money many Tribes make on casinos. Now I am part Cherokee, one generation away from being on the "Rolls". But I say cut off all US Gov't. funding... Or even declare WAR on them. Send in the Drones>>>>> DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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The worse thing we ever did was place them on the government dole. It has made them lazy and unwilling to advance themselves. | |||
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Remember last year when that guy came over to the states who was pushing for an Indian takeover of half the American West? And do you remember how everyone in Congress, even the democrats of all things, refused to meet with or have anything to do with him? And remember who DID give him the royal welcome to the WH?? ..so they're just thinking it's now or never...this is the time for their best shot at whatever they want. | |||
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They are worse than wolves here in Idaho. I have seen them drive down and shoot a cow and calf moose on forest service land. I saw the immediate aftermath of their road hunting a herd of cow elk on forest service land. They also jet boat the Snake and Salmon in late November and kill Bighorns right near the bank. They are said to be US citizens, yet they have more rights than any other US citizen of any color or creed. They are like white people in the early 1900's and every one of us other citizens are all Negros. Every day and in every way it gets harder and harder to love my country. | |||
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Not disagreeing with you but in theory on Reservation land their rules apply but on any other non indian preference land they gotta act like you and me. Could be wrong of course. Up here we've got private land owned by individual or corporate native entities and then the usual public and private real estate. My property was native owned but when title was transfered to Whitey all native protections or preferences were lost. Around Dillingham, quite a bit of land is native owned, but because its considered private property in every sense and part of the United States, (not soverign native nation,) all the usual criminal and game laws apply. Its common for a native land owner around here to claim soverign native status in legal disputes but the law enforcement officers just roll their eyes, write the ticket or snap the cuffs on and tell them to win in court. The Crow would be more than welcome to come up here and outdoor recreate I guess but I can tell you with certainty that they'd not get away with any poaching as its defined by our state or federal game laws. | |||
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So I just don't see this as out of the ordinary. The US government signs a treaty that is f$%ked up and when the other party wants to assert its rights under the treaty the US government signed and ratified, people get their panties in a wad. If we want to cut subsidy, I am fine with that, but it is a different issue. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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Scott, Your mistaken. See Nez Perce treaty rights. As I said, the incidents I witnessed were on FS land, which is by definition, not Indian. Larrys, A treaty is not some magical unchangable agreement. Like any law it can be changed if enough people give a shit. The Treaty of Versailles sure didnt prevent WWII. Its not a different issue at all. The US (if it had balls or any sense of justice or fairness) could unilaterally break the treaty and end this racial preference BS. Is it to much to ask of my Country that every citizen be treated the same under the law? We are all equal, but the indians are more equal and wildlife management suffers. Every other race spends their tax money here to rebuild Bighorn populations (or Moose or whatever,) and then the indians ride in on a jet boat and destroy every bit of progress. | |||
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Down here in Southeast Idaho the Shoshone=Bannocks hunt outside the reservation and without limit. | |||
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When Lora and I were in Idaho in 2010 on a bear hunt, the guide I was hunting with told us a similar story about a cow and a calf the locals had been driving out to watch practically everyday, then one day to guys show up in a truck with tribal plates or something and in front of the folks watching the pair, the guys proceed to shoot both animals. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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That is a pretty big blanket statement as there are plenty of Indians that have advanced themselves. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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That applies to every single person in the US that lives generationally on other peoples money. Why don't we learn? It is the new slavery. "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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You can't make someone lazy. You are lazy or you are not. Don't blame others for your flaws. | |||
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Erasers still work, don't they? The night has a thousand eyes but no judges. | |||
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Bullshit. Ever see a lazy 18 year old kid of parents who spoiled him? Think he was born that way or "chose to be that way"? I used to live in Northern Arizona and now live in North Africa. I was always amazed that many places on the reservations of the US seemed less "developed" than even shabby places here. Why do you think that is? | |||
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One spoiled 18 year old or 100s of them doesn't prove anything. What does spoiled mean anyway? I don't think you can take a hard working, self respecting, intelligent individual and "make" them lazy. What is laziness other than the refusal to put off what you want right now, to do what you might not want to do right now, all knowing that if you do that, there might be a payoff down the road 5 or 10 or more years down the road. Most people are naturally lazy and the government giving them money, etc. just allows them to continue in the lifestyle they desire. If the government giving money, housing and food to Indians made them lazy, then they would all be lazy 100%. Straight cause and effect. That is not how it has turned out. Blaming the government or parents for a person being lazy is giving a pass to the lazy bastards. It's the classical "victim" mentality. They made me this way. That's the real BS. | |||
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Mr. Navaluk, You are somewhat correct. We are all born lazy. We all, 92% of the standard curve anyway, would stay on our Mothers breast and let her change our pants until she died and then we would wonder who was going to feed us and change our pants should our parents choose to raise us that way. I think some scientist actually did a study like that somewhere on government money I am sure. So; I am simply saying that our actions towards those who live on generational handouts, are really just proving the theory. To me it seems obvious. Also just as obvious, should one be lucky enough to have parents who raise one to honor the thought "if you don't work, you don't eat" and is mentored along the adult pathway by like minded people, you will find the theory working in like manner there. That seem obvious as well. Now the "new slavery" comment; if it is obvious and I believe it is, and we do it anyway with the result of making people dependent on the Government, The Peoples Teat, there has to be a reason and there is. It is to enslave them to a way of life of always expecting and asking for more, thus keeping the Powerful over the now powerless. Best regards, "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Screw the Indians, they lost.........Assimilate to the winners or disapear! That's how they did it. Wonder what happened to the Anaszi? . | |||
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Well when I was growing up there under the cliff dwellings, the theory was: Drought and other Indians raiding them. None of the existing tribes in the region claim to be their descendants though the Navajo live all over the Anasazi land. The Utes do too. What our "kindness" of providing for these people has been one of America's greatest train wrecks. I do not condone the Indian wars but war is what it is and we hold no illusions about it. What we do now and call it kindness, and have done since the Indian wars is "unkind" in ways you can't believe unless you have lived there. Kind of like Detroit. http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/...mes-Urban-Wasteland/ "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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Sorry, but the absence of 100% universal causality does not effectively deny the existence of a correlation between gov't policies and laziness. If it did, then your quasi-eugenics argument would not hold water either as there are probably individuals within various ethnic or racial groups defined as "lazy" who are not. The reality is that the world is driven by incentives and their inverse...indeed the world is probably governed by little else. If certain individuals or groups have no incentive to be productive, by and large they will not be. Will there be exceptions, yes...and I am a lot more comfortable with the existence of exceptions than woth embracing the idea that there are racial, cultural, or geographic outbreaks of laziness and these outbreaks are "natural" and inescapable. | |||
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tendrams, If there is a "correlation" between US government policy and what you define as "laziness" in a whole race (Indians), I have seen no study to back that up. Maybe you meant to use a different word, but "correlation" is a single number that describes the degree of relationship between 2 variables. Also, since laziness is a culturally and not racially driven word (so you can relax) its kind of meaningless to use it without your definition. That's why I defined it for purposes of my analysis. This definition is only mine and if you disagree, then thats the way it is. I didn't make a eugenics argument, quasi or not. Next, say everything is incentive driven, doesn't get you anywhere unless you state the incentives and which one you think won out. For example, if a person has no immediate (today, tomorrow or next week) monetary incentive to improve themselves, study and become a doctor, because the government gives them money and housing, then there should be no Indian doctors. Yet I know 2. So why? My theory is that the parents of these 2 doctors made education and advancement financially and professionally, an important incentive in their lives. Giving these 2 people money and housing for free, did not make them "lazy" by my definition. To state it more simply, they were incentivized to sit on their butt, cash the check and stay in government housing. They were also incentivized to study, not screw around, and become doctors. The US gov. failed to make them lazy. Saying the world runs on incentives is meaningless. You are just as accurate to say that people do what they want. I still believe you cannot make a person lazy (my definition) by giving them free money and housing etc. | |||
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You are still living on a strange planet where singular or relatively rare counterexamples can be used to deny the existence of a trend or general relationship between two things. Just because you know an Indian doctor does not mean that the tendency for government handouts to stifle initiative does not exist. You are focusing on the counterexample out of your own bias and nothing more. Further, in this world people do "do what they want" but that is hardly the same as saying that the world runs on incentives. We have the ability (and will) to manipulate "what people want" in positive or negative ways with the creation of artificial incentives or disincentives. Maybe govt handouts don't chemically or physically make people "more lazy" but they certainly have the ability to "disincentivize" work and yield the exact same results. | |||
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Kind of like feeding game animals the more you feed them the less they want to go fend for themselves. | |||
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The more you live around them the more you realize how our predecessors really screwed up. They gave away the best of my state to a truly ungrateful and worthless bunch of scavengers. "When you play, play hard; when you work, don't play at all." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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I believe ya'. Iv'e seen it. It has been 100 years. The buffalo are gone, the plains are fenced. It is the 2012. Time to move on. When one tribe of Indians wanted another tribes territory they went to war. The losing tribe was either anhialatid or assimilated. What is the difference of "tribes" warring over land or Europeans warring with "tribes"........Nothing! They lost, they need to deal with it. No more Gov't handouts, Indians, slackers, none! Go to work! . | |||
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I can't believe that you can actually believe that after all who was it that decimated all of the game animal on this continent wasn't may relatives was it yours ? bet it was... you are one ignorant bastard | |||
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Indians did not exterminate anything by themselves, but they are not completely blameless as some individuals would like to have everyone believe. All a person has to do is a little research of the Plains tribes, not the eastern/coastal or desert tribes that incorporated farming into their life. The nomadic Plains tribes had to continually move around for two basic reasons. Wars with other tribes and depletion of food sources, mainly animals, within reasonable travel distance from the village site. A person merely has to visit such places as the various "Buffalo Jumps" thru out the west that were used by Indians for thousands of years before Europeans came to North America. Places where thousands of buffalo were run off of cliffs and piled on top of each other. Even a village of 500 people could and would only use a percentage of the number of animals killed during such a hunt. I have mixed feeling concerning the events that took place, but, and this is just my opinion, when the Indian Wars ended, all of the worthless Treaties should have been thrown in the trash and every effort possible made to assimilate into the new society as equals with all the immigrants that had been coming to America and not made wards of the government. Just like whites/blacks/Mexicans and the list goes on, all a person has to do is look around the country and they will see Indians that have made a place in American Society and done so successfully, while maintaining their heritage. Ben Nighthorse Campbell, Maria Tall Chief and many others. They made the effort to make their place in the New Order forced upon them. Others, chose the same path that many whites have chosen and that is to let the government take care of them. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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