The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Help me split hairs, .308 or 7 x 57?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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one of us |
I'm building my daughter her first rifle, and am down to 7 x 57 or .308 Winchester as caliber choices, but can't decide which to go with. The rifle will have a Mauser action, walnut stock, and will wear a 4X Leupold. The rifle will be used for everything up to and including elk. I already reload for both, and buying ammo for both is relatively easy, though .308 is more common and cheaper. IMHO, the 7 x 57 has more class, but the .308 with 180 grain bullets is probably a little better for the larger species. What is a father to do? | ||
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| one of us |
This is a no contest decision! Both my girls shoot 7x57. There is nothing a 308 can do that a 7x57 will not equal or do better. Use the tightest twist barrel that can be had. The advantages of the 7 over the 30 are: Less recoil, flatter trajectory and less wind drift. The controversy on this thread will be from 308 shooters who have not owned a 7x57.  If you have owned both, deep down you will know which is better.  ------------------ | |||
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one of us |
I tend to agree, the 7MM is REAL nice, and shoots like a dream. The same can be said of the 308, but the 7MM will do it all, if practice on shot placement is done, as well as anything and is pleasant to shoot. A real fun gun! | |||
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| one of us |
The 7x57 is a nice cartridge and efficient, but, unlike what is said above, comaparing apples to apples, it is not flatter than the .308, is without question not as accurate a round and there is scads of .308 surplus ammo to practice with on the cheap. If, it was not for your daughter, there would be no question, but considering the marginal differences in recoil, the accuracy advantages, and the availability of cheap ammo, I would still give a slight nod to the .308. | |||
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| <Don G> |
I have owned and shot both calibers, I'll have to disagree with Gerard on this. For an American hunter the 308 is a much better choice than the 7x57. The difference is based on logistics rather than game performance. l-n-b, you MIGHT not live forever, and 308 ammo is to be had at every country store. The 7x57 ammo sold in the US has been lawyer-proofed due to the very old rifles chambered for that caliber. (Same w/ 8mm) Don | ||
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one of us |
loud-n-boomer: You didn't say how old your daughter is, how big she is or what her shooting experience has been so far. Both calibers are superb, but for a beginner I think the recoil just might be a bit much. Have you considered a .243 or the .257 Roberts? You could always rebarrel at a later date. ------------------ | |||
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one of us |
quote: Somebody better call the Pentagon and let them know. Admittedly, the US military has toyed with the idea of replacing the 7.62mmx51 with the .300 Win.Mag., But, I don't think it's because the .308 isn't effective past 250 yards. RSY | |||
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| one of us |
I say the lawyer proofed ammo in the 7mm is yet another selling point for the 7mm. If mild recoil is what you are after especially. the proper bullet concept at 2,400fps is lost on American shores! Over here it has to at least break 3,000fps and shoot flat to be adequate. I would say due to the powders used .308's tend to have a quick jolt of a recoil(I've owned 2) and the 7mm probably doesn't(never owned one). If using a Mauser you will be able to seat bullets out farther than normal for the .308 if that is a plus, I would think it wasn't! I must admit I'm not impressed with the old middle of the road .30 cal though, so I am biased. Mike | |||
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| one of us |
I think the answer to your question depends on whether you expect to handload all the time, or sometimes use factory loads. If you expect that sometimes she will need or want to use factory loads, then the .308 would be the better choice. But if you expect to handload all the time, then go for the 7X57 -- it has an element of exoticness to it that the .308 lacks. And it's also an extremely good killer on all big game smaller than cape buffalo. Eleanor O'Connor, for an important example, used the 7X57 for a large number of game animals in Africa, making one-shot kills on more than a dozen of them. | |||
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| one of us |
LnB, It's a toss up, both are such fine rounds I'd be hard pressed to decide, but when push comes to shove I'd go with the 7x57 as it has slightly less recoil and can handle the 130 gr. Speer better than a 308 handles lighter bullets..The 130 Speer is a deer killing wonder, with complete penitration and 2" or larger exit holes, one of those rare combos that just work wonders, and very light in recoil...The 7x57 will send the 175 at the same as a 308 will deliver a 180, but the 7x57 will have better SD.... That said, I'm not sure all this makes a heck of a lot of difference one way or the other.... ------------------ | |||
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one of us |
Having shot both of these rounds quite a bit I would say go with the 7x57. I think it has less recoil and will have enough power for everything up to and including elk. I just don't buy into the idea that elk calibers start at the .308" Take good shots, which should be done with whatever gun your hunting with, and the ole 7x57 will put em in the dirt. For the bigger stuff I would load 160gr Grand Slams or Noslers and take to the woods without a worry. Good luck and I think you should be commended for getting your daughter envolved in hunting and shooting. | |||
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| one of us |
I think and did not state in my prior post, that either round is one of those cartridges that has the potential of being the one gun cartridge for the one gun shooter. While my own preferences are for larger caliber, if limited to one gun either cartridge would work, my vote for me being the 308, although I could certainly accept the 7x55. Hows that for a noncommital answer? What does the young lady like to shoot? | |||
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| one of us |
C'mon Don, L-n-b's daughter is probably already doing his reloading while he just watches. Kids are sharper than we want to admit. ------------------ | |||
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| <Mike Dettorre> |
The answer is clear and I am un equivocally right in my decison making process... Sit down with your daughter...show here: The two cartridges tell her ther is no performance differnce... and let her choose based on which one is cuter and has more style ------------------ The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner | ||
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| one of us |
Still, to have cheap ammunition available everywhere IS a major factor if you are a one gun owner. I bought the 6,5x55 myself for my first rifle because here in Sweden (almost 20 years ago) surplus ammunition was plentiful and cheap and I could practice a lot without spending too much money. But I must also admit that the 7x57 was the gun I really wanted but that time my wallet had to make the decision. | |||
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| one of us |
LnB. Wow! What a choice. While I must admit to having a definite preference for the .308, I'm getting a a strong affection for the 7X57 as well. I can't recall how many deer I've brought down with my .308, but I've been waiting to draw a tag for deer to try out my 7X57. You did not, as I recall, mention handloading, but either round can be loaded down sufficiently to be great for training and then be loaded to it's full potential for serious hunting. It was mentioned that the 7X57 was loaded down to laywer-proof it due to older, weaker guns being chambered for the round. That's true, but how much does it take to kill a deer? Then too, the round can be handloaded to it's full potential, which is close to the 7-08 with lighter bullets and will beat the 7-08 with the heavire bullets. I think that, if I were in your shoes, I'd decide like this. If you are a handloader, either round will do, so it would make little or no difference which one you chose. If you are not a handloader, then I'd pick the .308 Win., no doubt about it. I don't guess that was much help, but just my thoughts on the matter. Either way kudos for raising your daughter in the proper spirit of things. That can't be too easy, considering today's climate towards firearms and hunting. Paul B. | |||
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| <Don Martin29> |
While the .308 Win. is the most practical and also the better choice I like what was suggested. Let your daughter pick the cartridge. The mention of the 7mm 130 gr Speer makes me comment that I used this bullet in a 7mm Rem Mag for whitetails and I did not notice anything special about it. It performed about the same as the 140 Sierra FB which is to say OK. I did not load that 7mm mag that hot and the bbl was 22" so it's velocities were just normal for the .270/06 performance situation. These calibers do not really hit all that hard but deer die easy anyway (most of the time). Since the 7mm Mauser should be in a 06 length action if there is a choice of actions here the 308 has a short throw. If the action is already set and it's long then go for the .270 Winchester. Yea that's the one for her! I had a 7mm built up on a 8 groove Diefenbach bbl. It shot ok but why bother, the 06 or 308 is so much more popular. | ||
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| one of us |
The 7x57 fits a Mauser action better, it will feed smoother. You have a wider choice of ammo in the 7x57, buy Federal 140gr classic, for a accurate light recoil load, then buy Hornady 139gr SST Light Magnum for .270 class performance. | |||
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one of us |
If you can't decide and it looks like all the great folks here can't either. Then split the difference.The 7-08 is the choice for her, all the benefits of the 7mm with the short case of a 308. Ammo is available and can be handloaded. | |||
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Moderator |
I think Mike Detorre has the best answer! Of course if you do it that way she might not ever let you shoot "her" gun that much! ------------------ | |||
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one of us |
Mike's got the right answer. My eight year-old daughter hunts with a 6.5X55 Swedish Mauser because it sounds better than a 257 Roberts. Or maybe she knows more than I give her credit for? | |||
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One of Us |
Heck no, make the decision for them... most wouldn't know where to start or care! Rob is right... split the difference, get a 7-08. I have a number of girls that work for me here in Montana... of those that hunt, most prefer the 7-08... decent killing power and light recoil. Two weeks ago, one of the girls used her sisters 7-08 to take a nice cow elk with. She likes it better than her own 280. Most gals don't give a flip about cartridges... they like light recoil. They also tend to be VERY careful hunters and tend to put the bullets where they belong... hence getting their game. Brad | |||
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| one of us |
Having raised 4 girls (and one boy), I can unequivocally state that M. Dettore has it nailed. Brad also has a great point when he says, "Most gals don't give a flip about cartridges... they like light recoil." There are (thankfully) increasing numbers of lady hunters, but darned few lady gun cranks. Most just don't get wrapped up in ballistic trivia like guys do. Boys & toys, you know..... BigIron | |||
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| one of us |
Thanks for all of the input. I think I will follow Mike Dettorre's suggestion, what she really wants is my .450 Watts. However, I think the Watts might possibly be a bit much for a first deer rifle. My daughter will turn 11 in a couple of weeks, and can not hunt deer here in California until she is 12, so that gives me a year to get the gun built, and another 9 months for her to learn to shoot it. As to the 7mm-08, I know it is technically a great round, but I can't get at all excited about it. Actually, she has choosen the stock style and wood for herself. I figured that she would like a pink laminate with a thumbhole and Monte Carlo, or something. She wants feather crotch walnut, and a classic stock with no cheek piece. She says it looks prettier | |||
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| one of us |
Gentlemen, This is a tough decision, but I think I would go with the 7x57. I have a soft spot for the 7mm cartridges, with my favorite being the 7mm Rem Mag, but the 7x57 is a great round. Load it with 140 gr. partitions or 175 grain Hornady's and you have one hell of a gun for anything from pronghorn to eland...of course the same could be said about the .308. Joel Slate | |||
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| one of us |
LnB: Your daughter has an inherent sense for a wonderful cartridge. Why mess it up? If she wants to go with a 450, do it. After just reading a very long post, about the advantages of short bullets for penetration on game, what would be wrong with downloading a 450, and using light bullets? Cost would be a small problem, but lead bullets, at reasonable velocities might solve this problem. I just refereed a couple girls basketball games today, and the women today, girls too, are just flat out amazing, as far as conditioning, and looks. If she wants to try the lott, and likes the way it looks, why can't she be the first girl on her block to shoot a 45 caliber s | |||
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| <redleg155> |
7x57 - the best choice. If you have access to anything written by Finn Aagaard about the 7x57 - read it and believe. I've had both a 308 and a 7x57. Don't have them now but the one I miss is the 7mm. redleg | ||
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| <257 AI> |
I would take the 7X57 just because I want one. If you don't reload then the Hornady Light Mag is the answer for deer or antelope hunting.------------------ | ||
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| one of us |
My first rifle was a 308 win when I was 13. And we loaded 150 grain nosler partitions in it. The rifle was accurate and did not kick hardly at all. I shot anything from Mule deer to Moose with it and every thing went down instantly. I don't use it any more but it is still a great gun. There are a lot of benchrest records that have been set with .308win over the years. It can be an extremely accurate little round if loaded with the right medicine. Happy hunting | |||
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| one of us |
The score so far: 7x57 - 12 308 - 4 Off topic, other or undecided - 13 ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
Don Martin, Your statement that nothing spectacular or whatever about my praise of the 130 gr. Speer is kind of off the wall since it doesn't deserve your praise but it works you state, "it works", I ask you is that not note noteworthy of any bullet??? Helloooo! the other part of that advise was because the lighter the bullet the less the recoil for his daughter...The 120's don't always work, so in my mind the 130 is his best bet for a young girl, "it works" like you said and it is light in recoil like I said....surly that makes since to you? ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
OK: I'm a 308 fan. Great bullet range, fantastic accuracy, and can be downloaded to a pussycat. Karamojo Bell not withstanding, I'm a .308 fan. gs | |||
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| <Don G> |
Holy Cow Gerard, rub it in!  Don | ||
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| one of us |
Well, I took Mike Dettorre's advice, and asked her. It appears that Brad is correct in his assessment. Girls (or at least mine) are more interested in practicality. She said to me "daddy, all I care about is that it works right" she said "I want the one that is easiest to buy myself so I don't have to rely on you". When I showed her pictures of casehardened verses blued metal finishes, she said she wanted the one that would be easiset to take care of, and would last the longest. I guess the .308 wins, even though daddy likes the 7 x 57 better. I wonder if I shouldn't just buy her one of the M70 compacts in .308, rather than building a gun? | |||
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one of us |
Loud, My wife is 4 feet 11 inches (149.8 cm for you metric folks) and weighs 96 (43.6 kg)pounds dripping wet. Initially she was completely against the idea of me getting her a rifle. I kept the subtle pressure on by telling her stories of hunts and the gorgeous scenary she was missing. After reading (yes me too) Finn Aagards atricles about the 7x57 I bought one for her. When I loaded up the 175 grain bullets out to magazine length her eyes about bugged out until she fired it offhand. Nice, slow and easy. Load the big bullet at 2,000fps and it is soooo sweet to shoot. Then just keep increasing the velocity. At 2,350fps my wife actually told me she liked shooting the rifle. It is "hers" now. She enjoys the looks on peoples faces when they look at the enormous length of the 175 grain torpedos. I have a box of Gerards 130 grain HV's I will load to 2,800fps which will be plenty fast for caribou. I just have to get out to Bethel. At least this year the snow is deep and it is cold. Get her the 7x57. She'll love it. | |||
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| <Don Martin29> |
Atkinson, On that 130 gr 7mm Speer. You mentioned 2" exit holes, complete penetration. It made the bullet sound like a miracle bullet. I shot a few whitetails with that bullet and more often than not they would fall down and then get up and run. Now since that 7mm is a Ruger #1 that bullet did not give me as much confidence as you seem to have for it. As for recoil I can't see much difference in a 7 mauser or a .308. A Ruger Ultra Light weighs only 5.75 lbs! One in .308 with some handloads to keep the kick down seems to be the path of least resistance. | ||
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| one of us |
Sounds like she has a good even handed approach to the issue. She should be able to buy factory ammo for the 308 just about anywhere for just about any situation. That might not be true of the 7mm. I just have a soft spot for the old round, it has olts of history, and as advancements are made in powder, and bullet construction, it just gets better. Of course you must handload the 7mm to match what is off the shelf in the 308. Maybe match is the wrong word, but you get the idea. Good choice!! Do build it for her, thats a special thing that doesn't come with a factory box. [This message has been edited by 8MM OR MORE (edited 12-10-2001).] | |||
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| one of us |
I've owned both & while I like 7X57s, most chambers on this cartridge are to sloppy for good accuracy while we all know the .308 WILL shoot. I'd call recoil equal with same bullet weights. Here's another consideration how about the .280, down load it to equal 7X57 recoil or up it to good Elk cartridge!! | |||
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| <heavy varmint> |
I know that Loud-N-Boomer is asking about a rifle for his daughter and that may put a different spin on things,but for me the availability of factory ammo would be a mute point since I wouldn't hunt with them anyway. Ever since I shot my first deer with one of my reloads it has become part of the hunt, something that I take pride in for some strange reason, kinda like I had more to do with an ethical harvest than just a good shot, I put the cartridge together the way I wanted it to perform. Like I said this is for his daughter so it may be different. Anyway I think that I would give her the facts on both cartridges and let her make her own choice, theres no looser either way. | ||
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