Here is the response I got from our favorite PH that got chewed up by the Lion!! Any of you folks want to book a hunt with this guy? If he bases his bullet selection on what's on the box vs. experience in the field it really make one wonder if this guy knows what the he$$ he's doing? I guess just because they (bullet manufactor) say's its a good bullet we all just need to go out and buy them! So we all need to sue all the company's that say they have the best product what ever-be it cars, homes etc. Give me a break!! As I said before "stupid is as stupid does"

Thanks for the expert advise.

Perhaps Federal should have mentioned that this ammo is totally unsuited for
thin skinned dangerous game instead of advertising it excellent for big cats
including photos of lion and leopard?

Stupid
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ackerman Gregory S MSgt 366 /CMR"
<Gregory.Ackerman@mountainhome.af.mil>
To: <rohwersafaris@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2003 10:29 PM
Subject: You used the Wrong Bullet!!!

> Mr. Rohwer
> PH or wet behind the ear first timer- if you don't use the proper tools
for
> the job you get eaten. Deep penetrating bullet on thin skin game?
> Should have been using a soft nose expanding bullet.
> Sounds like he was trying to get by with out changing ammo to suit the
game
> hunted-so he got what he deserved!!! No# 1 rule match your ammo to the
game
> hunted or take your chances-stupid is as stupid does!!!
> Please drop your suit it does help us real hunters!!!
>
>
>

Perhaps he has a point? You say it was totally unsuitable for cats, why do Federal say it is??? Remember most hunters are not gun nuts nor serious reloaders and it should not be unreasnable to rely on what the manufactor recommends..

Imagine the reverse situation...Suppose a client gets mauled because his PH's handloaded ammo fails in someway. Considering that people seem to want to sue at the drop of a hat, would the PH be leaving himself open to be sued in such circumstances???

Pete - This guy is supposed to be a "professional" hunter. As such, he should know more about bullets especially considering that he is guiding dangerous game hunts.

Alas, education can be a dangerous process and something than many do not live through.

Check this guy�s web site out. I guess his picture was taken before his ill-fated lion hunt.... http://www.rolfrohwersafaris.com/company.html

[ 05-14-2003, 19:14: Message edited by: Zero Drift ]

Other than the fact I abhore law suits and have never sued anyone in my life, I think the fault lies with Federal, the have obviously changed the specs on the Trophy bonded bullets to suit there needs, One of Jack Carters bullets would not have come apart I assure you of that!! The big companies tend to let the bean counters get involved and bean counters are the scourge of the gun industry, they have driven many a company into bankruptcy...At any rate I think this guy has as much right as anyone else to use legal means....but I wouldn't and I am against most any law suit, they effect to many folks down the line just like bankruptcy...

Lawsuits should have a monotery limit, like Federal should pay his hospital bills and for his hunt and thats it. But this doesn't make the legal beagals any money...and the legal system has sold us down the drain to feed their greedy mounths...It is a shame that some of them have not pushed for reform. Only a few have done that and they should be praised...

Ray - Federal has been making Jack�s bullets for many years. They did not suddenly change the formula since Jack�s untimely death. Federal should no more pay for this bozo�s hospital bills than they should reimburse me for a lost Gemsbuck in 1993 due to improper bullet placement.

It could never be proven in a court that the PH made the perfect shot, the bullet failed, and that Federal should be held liable. If Federal paid a single cent to this guy, they would open the door to every nutcase in the world. ie - I cut my finger when opening a box of Federal ammo. I couldn�t work for a year. You owe me 1.3 million.

Sorry that dude got scratched, but this was his problem, not Federal�s. I have yet to find a Federal warranty guaranteeing me that - Animals will die at the sight of our bullets - guaranteed. Dangerous game hunting is well,,,, dangerous. Some PHs simply should not be in the dangerous game business.

Does anybody have ant details as to the exact caliber, the distances involved and exactly where the lion was struck, how many times and were the bullets recovered? I am assuming that it was a trophy bonded bearclaw? If I missed the above info on an earlier thread I am sorry, I just would like to know.

The bullet did not come apart (at least the plaintiff's attorney is not claiming so).

They are claiming that the bullet was too 'hard' and instead of the bullet stopping the lion, it merely killed it.

George

If the bullet did not come apart, then it sounds like bullet placement was off, and you can't blame the bullet manufacture for that.
Suppose the PH wins. The the next Elephant that charges will end up with a flattened bullet on its shoulder, and the manufacture will end up getting sued again. How can they win?

Sometimes a perfectly placed shot won't STOP an animal, that's part of the danger. There are more accounts of just that with Brown Bear than anything else I've ever heard. When the fall, they can get back up without a freakin heart left, just to tear yours out! Sometimes it takes several nails to keep the coffin lid closed, that's common knowledge... so what gives?

Actually, I am playing devils advocate here a little simply because this PH is not around to explain, justify or defend himself. As far as I understand it, Federal say this bullet is suitable for big cats and for a number of possible reasons the PH in question thinks that it failed to perform as advertised.

It struck me as ironic that the PH in this case is lambasted for following the manufacturors advice when there was such a heated debate over posters ignoring the manufacturors guidence and using Matchking bullets on live game...

I have my own huntches what happened here, buts thats all they are: huntches. Nobody here knows the full facts behind incident or the motivation behind the suit. We don't even know the PH in question so we can't comment on his personal ethics or possible motivation.

Pete, no matter what, there is no such thing as 100% stopping ammo. Sometimes, even with proper placement of the proper bullet, the animal forgets to read the promotional material, and refuses to fall over.

Here is a case of someone demanding 100% perfomance in a game with 95% odds. FWIW, Dutch.

Maybe he should have chosen a Match King!

This is why Sierra doesn't advertise the SMK as even a "thin skinned" hunting bullet, imagine if he had been using a SMK and that had happened... grounds for a suit then? I doubt it, but definitely not with a TBBC bullet... unless they forgot to put a core in the bullet or something, which you and I both know didn't happen.

If you ask me, I think the TBBC or an A-Frame is a perfect bullet for that job too, the rest is up to you, and sometimes $hit still happens!

Without all the details, this is all just pure speculation, and pretty much a waste of time IMHO.

Sometimes shit just happens. That's why it's called DANGEROUS game hunting and not just game hunting............ No-one get's it right the whole time, not even a PH. I don't know, but would guess this guy's insurance company has bought the action rather than him alone.

Yep that's right the original post didn't tell how many shots were fired either or where he hit the lion -just that the lion had enough left after the shot to chew on him some. IMO that's the chance you take while hunting something that bites!!! There is no bullet manufactor that garentee's that it will stop a charge from a dangerous animal- and if this guy has actually hunted Africa this long he should know that period!!! Just another BS lawsuit to try and get the easy money instead of working for it!!

This Goober and his lawsuit just pushes us one step closer to not having the option to hunt. A few lawsuits; a few multi-million dollar awards; a few more companies getting out of the ammunition/gun business; prices go up to cover the cost of liability insurance; and a few more of us can't afford to enjoy the hobby.

He hurts us all by not having the balls to accept responsibility for the fact that he f_____ up.

Pete,
The bullet performed as advertised; it killed the lion (plaintiff's attorney admits that the bullet killed the lion).

However, it did not STOP the lion's charge. IMO, unless the plaintiff can show that the manufacturer claimed it was 'stopping' ammo, he is not likely to win his case.

The lawsuit also ignores the well-known premise of occupational hazards.

George

[ 05-16-2003, 01:55: Message edited by: GeorgeS ]

I can't believe that this PH is trying to get money from Federal because he got hurt doing a job that he knew was dangerous. It's like these large City lawsuits against Gun manufacturers. I hope this PH never get another client.