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This elk rut bowhunting mess.
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What do you think of the fact that in most cases 90% or more, only bowhunters can hunt the elk rut?
 
Posts: 4729 | Location: Australia | Registered: 06 February 2005Reply With Quote
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I would really like to see it alternate years and go 50/50 evens odds.

What do you guys think?

That way bowhunters can hunt the rut for a year and then we can.
 
Posts: 4729 | Location: Australia | Registered: 06 February 2005Reply With Quote
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D99, I'm not sure what you mean--is it your point that the rut happens early in the season when only bowhunting would be allowed. I know of a good bunch of folks that have hunted with rifles when the elk were rutting, in NM, AZ, Utah, Montana for sure....

Without knowing your point though, I think I already like your 50/50 proposal, it seems inherently fair???
 
Posts: 3563 | Location: GA, USA | Registered: 02 August 2004Reply With Quote
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Fish just too many elk season timed for the bowhut during the rut.

A guy would have to look in every state.

Wyoming, you won't find many.

Colorado and I think New Mexico can do landowner tags and hunt with whatever they want.
 
Posts: 4729 | Location: Australia | Registered: 06 February 2005Reply With Quote
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D99

If I understand you're post, Wyoming elk hunts start around September 20th with rifle. I know Idaho and Montana also have rifle hunts in the rut. I harvested a 6X6 two years ago on October 23rd. I called him and his cows into 75 yards.
Can't speak for Colorado but, New Mexico early hunts are in the rut.

Steve
 
Posts: 847 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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A better solution would be that if you have an elk bow tag you CAN'T have an elk rifle tag... I wouldn't want to see bowhunters wound more elk by not having the advantage of the rut to bring elk in close.
 
Posts: 3523 | Registered: 27 June 2000Reply With Quote
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Don't most states have bowhunting during the rut? It's obviously an advantage to have lovesick bulls/bucks running crazy, and having a gun season at that time would result in a very high harvest. I know in Michigan, our gun season is at the tail end of the rut, and the majority of deer are taken within the first few days. Having bow hunting during the rut seems like a way to prevent overharvest and having everyone and their brother out in the field at once.
 
Posts: 58 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 October 2004Reply With Quote
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Having too many rifle seasons during the rut will be the downfall to your elk herds.
It is true that bowhunters get to hunt at the prime time, but just look at the harvest statistics. They aren't taking too many bulls.
 
Posts: 295 | Location: Oregon | Registered: 24 June 2006Reply With Quote
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just-a-hunter- Your post is a tad misleading concerning Utah's limited entry hunts. 25% of Utah's limited entry permits go to archers. Their success rate hovers around 40-50% kill and 65-70% wound rates. Utah's archery hunts runs right into the rut and archers get to hunt the prerut, which is the best time to hunt bulls which are trying gather cows. Big bulls are easiest to harvest by archers before they get their harems. Utah archery applicants only make up 9% of total applicants, yet archers receive 25% of the opportunity and are killing around 20% of the rut hunt bulls.

Hunting elk in the rut with a rifle is a very exciting endeavor. The problem is if Game Departments are allowing too many rifle hunts during the rut then they can not issue many tags. In Utah, we have a 40+ year wait to draw a limited entry tag, due to the high success rates and the overmanagement and underharvesting of our resource.
 
Posts: 789 | Location: Utah, USA | Registered: 14 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Brad

The rut has nothing to do with whether or not bow hunters will wound more elk out of the rut. Bow hunters just like rifle hunter have to know their limitations. I see to many people taking bad angle shots on big animals like elk and end up wounding them instead of making a nice human kill.

Steve
 
Posts: 847 | Location: Wyoming | Registered: 13 March 2005Reply With Quote
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Blackpowder is something I don't agree with at all.

These inline blackpowder rifles have only one down fall and that's that they are single shots. I know some of those things will shoot farther than a 444 or 45-70 will and hit harder.

There is a reson Wyoming and Montana don't have blackpowder seasons.

Only some areas in Wyoming have rut rifle hunts. And it's a pretty limited number.

As for other states they are pretty rare.

I love Colorados ranching for wildlife program. The rancher get's the set the elk season himself.
 
Posts: 4729 | Location: Australia | Registered: 06 February 2005Reply With Quote
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I agree Todd,

We will lose this hunting business entirely because we can't agree to support eachother.

Some elitist hunter groups I can think of are:

Snipers, those that want to shoot far, far, away.

Traditional Archers, they want it old indian style or not at all. Even going so far as to make they own stuff out of animals and spruce.

Blackpowder traditionalist. Trader coats, rock lock action, and wool all around.

Rifle snob, if your not hunting with at minimum a $3500 Rifle with $1500 worth of the best German glass, your waisting time.

Ultra bowhunters. The newest carbon fiber bow, arrows, and the sharpest blades in the world shooting it over 150 FPS, any deer with 80 yards is shot at. Sniping at the traditional archers and the crossbowhunters!

George Jetson Jim Shockey wannabees. $1500 inline rocket technology in blackpowder form, gotta blast one of everything with an inline.

Driven bird shooting snobs. With $50,000 worth of shotgun, a pair of knickerbockers, and a funny hat.

Whitetail only snobs.

Elk only snobs, rarer but still happens.

I have been guilty of belonging to a couple of these groups.

I am pretty much a rifle and handgun guy, don't care for archery or blackpowder, just not an interest. And any privlidge like rut hunts, and special seasons should apply to both archery and rifle seasons on alternate years.

I think if a blackpowder season is going to be valid it should be valid. You should have to use blackpowder, some early 1800s technology. No scope, no sabots, no advantage.

Bows are the same, a crossbow and a ultra compound aren't in the same catagory as the traditional archery gear.

Then again a Lazzeroni 7,82 warbird with a laser range finding scope, and the best loads available doesn't have much in common with old Teddy Roosevelts 405 1895 John Browning designed lion stopper.

I was fortunate in my life to experience one rifle elk rut. It was the greatest few days of my life, and I never pulled the trigger.
 
Posts: 4729 | Location: Australia | Registered: 06 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Todd, the numbers you posted back up what I said. Archers get around 25% of Utah's limited entry elk tags yet they only represent around 9% of the applicants. They also kill around 17% of the total limited entry elk take. So 9% of the guys get 25% of the opportunity and 17+% of the take. How do you figure --"it is unfair to archers in my oppinion in that it damn sure wouldn't hurt for the Division to issue a few more tags to archers"--?? The division between hunters get wider when one group gets too much.

To hijack the thread, I fully agree that any hunter who draws blood should punch his tag.

Back to the topic, I think every state should allow a limited rut rifle hunt for bulls. Hunting rutting elk is a thrill.
 
Posts: 789 | Location: Utah, USA | Registered: 14 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Here in Arizona, the archers have almsot 6 months to hunt deer, can buy their tags over the counter and hunt anywgere in the state. I as a rifle hunter, depending on the hunt, have to draw for a specific area, no gaurantee of being drawn and my seasons are mostly four days long. There are a few that are about three days longer, but not all that many.
A few years back, Game and Fish wanted to reduce the archer's elk tags by 6 tags so that handgun hunters could have a special season to hunt elk. The bowhunters literally stormed Phoenix demanding that they not lose any tags. All I can say is what a selfish group of sons of bitches they are.
No before someone say I should take up archery, I would, but an accident and other old age infirmities now make that idea a non-option. FWIW, just prior to the accident, I had just bought a PSE bow with all the trimmings. Now, I cannot use it at all and it sits in the closet gathering dust.
The only good thing I see right now is that in less that a year and a half, I can get a lifetime fishing and hunting license for free. Still have to pay for tags and fight that damned lottery draw.
Paul b.
 
Posts: 2814 | Location: Tucson AZ USA | Registered: 11 May 2001Reply With Quote
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There area few places a guy can hunt an elk in WY with a rifle during the rut, most of these areas are in places where a guy needs some pack horses and a week to hunt. Winter generally comes early in these places, that is why you get an September whack at them.

As for archery only or rifle only tags, both in my opinion are bullshit.

I like WY's way of doing things. Everyone gets the same chance at drawing a tag...archery or rifle hunters. Once you draw, you can purchase an archery tag to hunt the archery season. That is usually 30 days. Once that is through, you can pick up your rifle and hunt, or use a muzzleloader during the rifle season. We don't differentiate between a rifle/muzzleloader...if lead is propelled out a barrel using gun powder, it is a rifle.

There is no finger pointing between archery or rifle hunters...everyone has the same chance of drawing the license and can hunt either season or both. Big Grin

Oh, and FYI archery hunters only amount to 3% of the elk harvest in Wyoming.

MG
 
Posts: 1029 | Registered: 29 January 2004Reply With Quote
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