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Hi All, Can anyone tell me if using 225gr Sierra GK in a 35Whelen is a bad chaice for Nilgai?? I have very accurate load in my Rem700 that I'd like to use. I can certainly rework the load for a premium bullet but I'm thinking that as bullet weight and caliber gets increases, bullet toughness rises as well. What do you think??? | ||
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I hunt nilgai 4-5 times a year with a good friend who kills 20-40 trophy bulls a year. All we use are TSX's. From 7mm to 45-70. He has been hunting nilgsi since he was a kid and has probably killed 1000 of then. He has switched all his guns to TSX's and has had great results for 5-6 years now. I personally think the GK would PROBABLY work BUT a TSX leaves little room for doubt. Perry | |||
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I've never shot one, but have heard from knowledgeable folks that they're about the toughest animal there is to put down. I'd use a Swift A-Frame, Barnes, Trophy Bonded....something stronger than a GameKing. | |||
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I have never hunted a Nilgia so I don't know their structure. However I have used them on Elk out of my 300WM with good results. I just bought a box of the 225gr game kings for my 350 Rem Mag to use for Elk hunting this year if I am lucky enough to draw. | |||
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Yes, it would be a bad choice -- for the nilgai, and would almost certainly result in his untimely death. Nilgai have a reputation for being tough (for their size), and I'm sure they are. But they're not as large as an elk and neither are they as tough. The last one I saw taken was with a .25-06 and factory Corelocts. That wouldn't be my first choice, but the 225 Sierra out of a Whelen is about as good as you can get. Welcome to Texas and good luck with your hunt! | |||
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Explain the not as tough as elk theory please. Bull with 25-06 and corelokt...do tell. Perry | |||
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A ranching client of mine refers to Nilgai as his "replenishable resource"...a hunter shoots one with his favorite deer rifle and the bull gets away in the brush. 3-4 weeks later the same bull gets it again from another under-gunned nimrod, etc. He has had 4 bulls killed with other folks' bullets found at skinning!Hit them right and they're dead. Have a running shot and you'll be much happier you loaded a premium bullet that will penetrate from front to back.We kill 8-10/yr. and TSX, North Forks, Swifts, TB's, etc. are our choices.Our favorite calibers are .300's to.416's. You'll have a fun hunt! | |||
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Why use a GK when there are much stouter bullets available and the cost difference is not much at all. I use 225 TBBC's in my 35 Whelen for maximum "whack" as you never know what shot opportunity you will get. I would not be against using the 225gr Nosler Accubond. | |||
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I think the game king would be fine, but I think a TSX, naturalis, TB or like would be a better bullet. Shot one with a TSX in a 9.3x62 and it wizzed thru, shot one with a 30-06 with a 220 grain core-loc and it stopped on the far side..still dead, but would have like to see a in and out. Not as tough as elk...humm.... dont know about that! Not as big as elk.... humm 4 or 5 I've been around may have not best"ed" the largest bull in the rockies, but were damn close to an adv bull. Ed DRSS Member | |||
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Great discussion! I'm not at all opposed to using other bullets. So...I've got some loading to do! | |||
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From wikipedia: Mature nilgai typically weigh 120-240 kilograms (308-528 lbs) Elk cows average 225 kilograms (500 lb), stand 1.3 metres (4.3 ft) at the shoulder, and are 2 metres (6.6 ft) from nose to tail. Bulls are some 40% larger than cows at maturity, weighing an average of 320 kilograms (710 lb), standing 1.5 metres (4.9 ft) at the shoulder and averaging 2.5 metres (8.2 ft) in length.[17] The largest of the subspecies is the Roosevelt elk, found west of the Cascade Range in the U.S. states of California, Oregon and Washington, and in the Canadian province of British Columbia. Roosevelt elk have been reintroduced into Alaska, where the largest males are estimated to weigh up to 600 kilograms (1,300 lb). Most hunters have found elk (wapiti) to be about as tough for their size as any animal. Therefore, if elk are larger than nilgai, they are also "tougher" than nilgai. The two animals are certainly in the same class in terms of the guns and ammunition appropriate for hunting them. A .35 Whelen shooting a 225 grain Sierra would be above the 50th percentile in terms of power and penetration among the calibers actually used by hunters for either. | |||
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I think it will be a fun if not challanging hunt and am looking forward to it! | |||
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Doug, I have shot about 15 Nilgai over the years with .375, .416 and even a .460 Weatherby Magnum just to see what would happen. They can take a hit like no other animal. I have used mostly Swift A-frames but have used a few X-bullets. I would definitly use a good bullet. When I first started to hunt them the guide would tell me of hunters shooting them with .375's and .416's in the chest and they never even flinched when hit. I did not believe him at the time, now I know better because I have seen it myself. Hard to hunt and hard to bring down. One of the most underated animals to hunt in North America. WLA | |||
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A 225g Partition would be a better choice in my opinion if your Whelen will shoot em' accurately. GO WHAT YOU FEEL CONFIDENT SHOOTING WITH AND DO IT ACCURATELY. I've killed a slew of elk(which are bigger in size than Nilgai) with my Whelen. Red box 250g Hornady RN's. It's your shot placement that counts. | |||
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Whelen and Stone Both of you are WAY off on this one, because they are similar in size. Research gentlemen. Read here the first hand experiences. A rutting bull can take a huge hit and not even flinch. They are the main diet of the bengal tiger. Their design makes them agile, tough and resilliant. Leave the GK at home for hogs, plan like you were going to Africa for tough pl gm animals. Also bare in mind their habitat here. They don't bleed externally. If they go 100 yards you probably wont find them easily in this brush, or at all if they go further. I double lunged one with a 160gr TSX in a 7x57, performance was text book. it went 225 yards and collapsed dead with NO blood trail. Luckily it ran into the open and we saw it drop. When we gutted it both lungs were jello. Perry | |||
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I think the main problem is that the OP is using Sierra bullets. I haven't hunted Nigia ever but I would think the Sierra bullet would be up to the task. We aren't talking about a .358 STA or other magnum cartridge capable of pushing this bullet past 3000 fps MV. The Sierra should hold together quite well at the moderate speeds (2600 +/- fps) the .35 Whelen will push it. Sounds to me from the experienced hunters here that the key to killing Nilgia is get them down quickly. I'm sure a the Sierra can do that if placed through the front shoulders. I've read the Nilgia has a very elastic hide, and that is why they don't bleed out their wounds very well. I have no doubts they are tough as well from what I've read. I think that Sierra has received a bad rep from people trying to push them outside the design limits of the bullet. The .35 Whelen just can't push one hard enough that it will fail. Sure a premium bullet might be a better choice but only if they prove to be as accurate as what the OP can get with the Sierras. | |||
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I shot mine with a .416 Barrett, but that was over-kill. My hunting partner shot his with a .300 WM using a Partition. The nilgai is very much like a gemsbok and acts the same when shot from what I can tell. Very thick front quarters, heavily muscled. They are tough and need an A-Frame, Trophy Bonded Bear Claw, Triple Shock or Partition to get the penetration needed. The shots are usually 200 yds or so, so use something with some power. I would use a .300 WM or bigger as a rule. | |||
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Of the ten + I have killed, none of the bullets have exited. All shot w/ NPs or NFs in 7 x 57--up close, 30-06 and 338 WM. Their skin is thick and elastic. ALL bullets recovered under the hide on the far side. They are fun to hunt and good eating. | |||
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Oh-Oh...finally a bullet resistant animal! The outfit recommends 300win or larger. I have a .375HH and a 300win that I shoot quite well. The whelan is new and I'd like to use it. I can get a 225gr going in the low 2700s (according to my oehler) from my 24" barrel and shoot 1-2" groups generally. From you folks with experience, sounds like a heck of a hunt! | |||
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Doug I think the 35 Whelen will do fine, My 9.3x62 killed with no problem, they are big animals--though my not be big as an elk! ;~) They are a excellent quarry! The meat is excellent too! Have fun on your hunt. I borrowed this pic from the LL site: This is a cow--may not be big as an elk but damn close!  By coachsells at 2011-05-10 DRSS Member | |||
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Great pic. Note the placement of the bullet. Their heart sits forward and low in the chest, that is a KEY element in a clean kill with them. ALSO notice the mandatory pieces of equipment...SNAKE BOOTS!!!! perry | |||
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WOW!!! uh...SNAKE BOOTS!!!! Wait a minute....Hmmm.....  Thanks 505...this is gonna be fun! | |||
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 Last time down there in March. Perry | |||
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Haven't even considered snakes (city boy that I am). Sheeittt..... | |||
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Whitetails shot with those calibers and tough bullets would likely travel quite a ways before going down, leading the unititiated to conclude that whitetails are incredibly tough; whereas when shot with a 130 grainer out of a .270 Winchester, the whitetail will usually pile up right where it stands. That nilgai run quite a distance when shot with a large caliber and a tough bullet only proves that big calibers and tough bullets often inflict less trauma on the vital organs than faster-expanding bullets from medium calibers. Shoot it in the right place with any of the calibers and bullets under discussion and a nilgai will be dead meat about like any other animal its size. | |||
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You are so wrong. You are arguing with guys who have killed hundreds of these beasts. Ballistic tip in a 25-06/270 will result in a bull nilgia being lost. The bullet has to be tough enough to MAKE it to the vitals. You have never seen one shot or shot one yourself, right? Perry | |||
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..or if you are paranoid about rattlers, snake boots with snake chaps  Mine Snake Boots always go to Rocksprings with me and to South Texas when going to the in-laws too!! Robert If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretense of taking care of them, they must become happy. Thomas Jefferson, 1802 | |||
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In this case the outfitter has a minimum caliber/power factor and it's a 300wm or greater. So...I'd use the 35W anyway. Snakes don't really bother me...hope to shoot a big one and bring it home to the taxidermist! | |||
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No 1000's for me-- Only 3 for me over a 20 year time frame- 30-40AI 180 Core-Lokt, Sharps Borchardt, scope 9.3x74 286 Norma, Valmet 412, no scope 6.5 x54 160 Hornady, Mannlicher -Schoenauer, scope None of the 3 seemed particularly hard to kill-- 1 shot each DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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Well, I've never even seen a Nilgai but if they are comparable to a Gemsbok as some seem to think, they are certainly not indestructible. Gemsbok die fairly easily IMO when shot well with a .308 165 TBBCs or a .300 WM with 200gr NP. 3 shots, 3 dead Gemsbok, fartherest ran about 75 yards max. Just like any animal, the hunter needs to know the game's anatomy. Based on what I hear, a lot of Nilgai are shot moving and most hunters can't hit poop when it's moving, much less make a good killing shot. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Now, Gato, there you go messing up these boys' pet narrative. The size of one of their balls is entirely dependent on how big a gun they shoot, and the size of the other of their balls is dependant on how "tough" their favorite big, ugly animal is to kill with their big gun. Of course, if you don't have a really big gun, you can substitute a gun with a really big magazine in order to keep your second ball properly inflated. If you go spreadin' it around that these critters can be laid dead with a common old .30 caliber bullet, then you've absolutely ruined the mystique they've fabricated and may cause their balls to shrink up to the size of a dried goober. You may be onto something about poor shots on running game making the animal seem tough. My first gemsbok was shot running, and I was able to put several shots into him "around the edges" with a .338. My embarassment at such poor shooting with such a relatively powerful gun prompted me to proclaim that gemsbok must "damn tough". Of course, shooting them in the foreleg, hindquarters, and eventually the paunch, is an excellent way to prove how "tough" they are. The next day my son dropped his (larger) gemsbock with a single shot from a .30-06. So much for "toughness". As I said in an earlier post, the last nilgai I saw taken was with a .25-06 and factory Corelocts (no idea the weight). It's not the gun I would have picked, but niether is my .375 H&H Improved or my .416 Remington. I don't own a .35 Whelen, but if I did, I'd regard it as a better choice for nilgai as either a .25-06 or a .416 Remington. Another advantage in shooting something like a .35 Whelen instead of a .416 is that you have the advantage of not having to drag testicals the size of grapefruit around in your pants while you hunt. | |||
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Stone, I am truly shocked at how rude you are. I would expect this in the political forum but in a discussion over bullets for game you have NO experience with...really. A gentlemen you are not sir. I'd ask you to tell us of the nilgai hunt you where on but I feel as though you have never hunted them. Perry | |||
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In my case...the fella who owns the outfit has a minimum and I'm OK with that....also...I'd like to blood the whelan. I'll be sure to post when I get back and won't spare the details...good or bad! | |||
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Doug. I've never shot a Nilgai but I have shot elk. My choice using the Whelen would be the 225 gr. TSX over about 60.4 gr. of RL15. That load knockd the crap out of a badly spooked cow elk and she hit the ground do hard she boubced. CAUTION: The load is max in my custom Mauser but accuracy is superb. Velocity it right at 2700 FPS. Ms elk was running away quartering slightly to the left. The bullet hit just behind the short ribs at 150 yards and exited between the neck and right shoulder. Internal damage was massive. That was my first use of any TSX bullet on game and frankly, I though all those reports of how good they were was flat out exxageration. THey really do work. Paul B. | |||
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Doug My buddy just got back to me on using his Whelen for nilgai. His load is 50gr of AA2460 and a 225 TSX. He used to use a NP, maybe a 250gr, but says he likes the performance of the TSX better. His load may be a few grains more, he likes to knock a couple of grains off when sharing info to be on the safe side if someone doesn't have the sense to work up. Info seems to match what Paul is saying. Perry | |||
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Thanks Paul and Perry....will start load work up in a few weeks...I've got work and family almost every weekend for most of May and June. | |||
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Whassamatter? Can't stand having a little fun poked your way? As thick-skinned as the game you hunt may be, your skin must be pretty thin. I apologize that I didn't realize you were such a sensitive guy. | |||
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Perry, we don't like snakes at my South Texas lease either but we don't go killing hatchlings in the nest. Let 'em grow up a little next time! "Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson. | |||
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You have no idea how close to the truth you are. They were..ah.."hugging" when I shot them. Perry | |||
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