Want to head out west sometime soon in the next year or two. I have a .308 that i handload now and i was wondering from experienced hunters if this is enough gun and if the trajectory is hard to compensate. It would be cool to get a new caliber but I would want something that would shoot flat and be able to dispatch everythin from elk to small whitetails out to 400 yards.i doubt my .308 would do that but never know? you all have any suggestions on calibers or loads for the .308? Thanks alot

While I do not consider myself an expert on the subject of Elk I can realy my limitied experience.

I took one nice bull Elk with a .308 with Federal Premium Trophy Bonded Bear Claws. The range was about 200 yards and the Elk was walking and not alarmed.

My fiend and his wife have taken about 8 - 10 bull Elk all but one of them lager than mine and at least 7 out of the ten were with a .308 and the above cartridge.

Know having said that I will admit that the reason I shot the Elk with the .308 was because the scope on my .375H&H went down.

GPT

john17
Your 308 will work fine for elk. I would recommend a 180gr premium bullet, Nosler Partition, Swift A-Frame, or a Trophy bonded Bearclaw. Either the factory load that shoots the best or a handload. 400 yards is a long shot on game but if a person can hit the animal in the right spot....
Since you already have the 308, if I was going to buy a rifle specifically for elk , I would step up to a 338 Win Mag, but only if I could handle the extra recoil and put the time into proper practice with a new rifle. If not I would use the 308 without fear.

I'm with NE450, I shot my only Elk last year with a 338. Previously my primary hunting rifle had been the 308 Ruger RSI. I'm sure the 308 would have done the job but the 338 just gave me a little better feeling.

By the way, don't worry about the recoil, the 338 is not nearly as bad as some make out. It's stronger than the 308 of course but not by a large margin. I wear a thin shoulder pad when bench shooting but you don't need it at all when hunting.

I'll just repeat what has all ready been said. With a premium bullet I would not have any worries.

If you plan on going out west and using the services of a guide he is most likely going to suggest something more powerful. I won't disagree with that also. 308 is great for deer at 400 but it's pushing it a bit with elk. I would definately try to get a bit closer.

We used to hunt with a old timer who killed hundreds of game animals with his 308 and alot of it was elk and moose. He perfered head and neck shots though.

The .308 is a great caliber but IMHO is not your best choice on the larger species of deer at 400 yds. Your best bet for a long shot will be Barnes 168 gr XLCBT at a bc of .476, if your rifle shoots them well, and even that will drop below it's velocity for good expansion at around 325 yds assuming an mv of 2600-2650 fps.

You might ask the same question at www.longrangehunting.com as there are several there that do use the .308 at extended range with 175 gr Sierra Match Kings.

I agree with other's opinions of .338 WinMag recoil. It is less sharp than a .300 WinMag if both rifles are 10-11 lbs. The .338 will slide you back further in a chair at the bench rest than the .308 but it is not any more painful to shoot. A .338 is not necessary for elk and if I had a .308 that I was already comfortable with I would use it.

I started hunting with a .338 built on a Mauser action just a month after my 13th birthday and used it on everything till I decided to build a .270 just for whitetails. After seeing it's effect on maybe 8 whitetails, more than a dozen feral hogs, and 1 blackbear I used it exclusivly for all animals mice to moose from 17 yr old till I basically no longer budgetted the time to hunt some time after 1983. Not once did I think the .338 would have killed any quicker than the .270.

I also built a .220 Swift just after my last deer season as a civilian but only took a few coyotes and a lot of paper targets with it while I was stationed in 29 Palms, California. Judging by it's effect on coyotes it would have been fine on whitetails, pronghorns, and mule deer, but would have required perfect marksmanship and a little luck for elk and moose. IMHO your .308 will only require the skills of an average hunter and an average marksman.

John17, boilerroom said it very well, at 400 yards, its pushing your luck with a .308. 400 yards is a pretty long poke but if you're comfortable with your skills to that range I would recommend the .338. One piece of advice if you are moving up to that calibre, take your time picking out a model. Forget about features, there is not a lot of difference between the different makes, they all work good. Pick out the one that feels good in your hands and comes up to your shoulder like it belongs there. I would also recommend a Pachmayr Declerator both for reduced recoil and it eliminates one more variable. Finally use premium bullets, elk are tough creatures and hang on to life more than moose as a general rule and the angle that presents itself isn't always going to be what you want. Handloading I've had good luck with Fail Safes, Swift A-Frames. Factory ammo that's good is Federal, Remington or Winchester in their premium lines. Now a lot of people will disagree with that but I've always found that by eliminating as many variables as possible, I have a lot better chance of achieving my objective.

Good luck with your decisions and enjoy your trip out west. You're going to love it.

John,
these other gentlemen have given you excellent advise. A premo bullet is just a little extra insurance. For a 308, I would go with the 165 partition or the Barnes 168 grain XLC if I was concerned.

Contrary to what the gun magazines say, 400 yd elk are more a rarity in my experiences any more.
They are just like Whitetails in Virginia. They love the thickest nastiest crap they can find, and they will just lay up in there all day, and finally come out at night.

I know guys who bowhunt elk, ( if a bow will do it, the 308 definitely will). They can sit on a stand, right next to a thicket that you can hear the elk pushing around in it all day, you even see parts of them, but nothing to take a clear shot.

No one mentioned that Elk are also a million times smarter than any Whitetail or Mule Deer.
Hell, they are almost as smart as they made Lassie on TV if you are old enough to remember that.

In rare instances at least here in Oregon, will a shot be over 200 yds. I have only hunted in Montana once for elk, and that one was taken at 175 yds, with a 30/06 loaded down to 30/30 velocity ( 2250 fps at the muzzle), and with a 165 grain Ballistic Tip. It weighed about 600 lbs on the hoof, and field cleaned and hung at 405lbs,by the Montana Fish & Game people.

So a 308 is just fine.,, shot placement is the name of the game my friend. Bullet in the Boiler!

Good luck!! and hope you get a good one.

I agree with the idea of using a 180 grain premium bullet, and also the idea of getting closer than 400 yards. Elk are big animals and its easy to misjudge distances with them. I would recommend a range finder.

I think it's been covered pretty well. The .308, 06, .280 they are all good elk rounds to a point. 400 yds is really streching a shot on a big bull w/ any eround much less a .308. I would want to half that. WHile many elk are shot under 200yds, you can get the occasional over 300yds out west. I like my .338-06, but that is still an under 350yd rig for me. Now my 7mm Dakota I might stretch to 400yds, after that, get closer or pass the shot.

The 308 is perfectly adequate for elk. Pick a good 180gr PREMIUM bullet that your rifle shoots well and go for it. About the 400 yard shot though, I wouldn't shoot ANYTHING but varmints at that range no matter what the caliber. jorge

My cousin has killed 22 bull elk with his old pre-'64 Win. 70, Featherweight .308 W. He used to use the 180 gr. Rem. Core Lokts, but a few years ago switched to the Federal Premium 180 gr. Nosler Partitions. He does not reload.

Here are the States in which he's lived and killed elk. Idaho, Montana, Colorado, and Utah.

He told me the longest shot he's made was about 250 yards. He usually shoots them much closer. I've been with him when he made some 75/80 yard kills.

He also killed an Idaho Shiras moose, several years ago, two shots with the .308 W., Fed. 180 gr. Nosler Partitions. Range was perhaps 100 yards.

He's a firm believer in the .308, but he is an excellent shot, hunts hard, and always manages to have a steady rest from which to shoot.

FWIW. L.W.

[ 06-26-2003, 07:48: Message edited by: Leanwolf ]

Though I've not taken an elk with the 308 I've carried one chasing elk more than once and never felt handicapped. Personally I think a good 165 grainer is best for elk in the 308. At the top would be the 165 Failsafe followed by the 165 X bullet. If my rifle liked neither I'd look at the 180 Partition. My particular rifle loved the 165 gr XBT.

Forget a bigger rifle... use the 308 in every conceivable field position... shoot it at a variety of targets out (and past) 300 yards... become thoroughly familiar with it... if you're in good shape and know how to still hunt whitetails, elk won't be a problem. If you're not in shape it doesn't matter what rifle you're carrying.

BA

.308 is a fine elk rifle. Heck, my dad uses a 7-08 when he wants to carry a light rifle. Bigger is better to a point, but i wouldnt hesitate at all to hunt with a 308 or 30-06, they both kill lots of elk. Id use a premium like a nosler partition, but thats a no-brainer. I think a 338 or a 35 whelen is the ideal for elk, but sometimes i think maybe we just make too big of a deal out of what "ideal" is, a 308 is certainly adequate and kills elk just as well if you hit them in the lungs. 400 yards... dang thats a long ways. Even a 338 will let em get away if you hit them in the guts.

The 308 will work just fine for elk, but not at 400 yards. I would limit my shots to 250 yards max. If you want to reach out farther you need to step up to a magnum. I shoot a 338 Mag and I am a small framed person only weighing 120 pounds and the recoil isn't bad at all. And I refuse to own a rifle with a muzzlebrake.

John, I'd go with a Hornady 165 Interbond in your 308 with about 46grs. of Varget, that'll shoot a bit flatter than a 180 grainer and have just a bit more energy out to 400yds. Jay

How good a shot are you? That is the answer to your question..... Remember, its the rifleman not the rifle.

Iam w/Brad on this-165 or 180 who cares take your pick-get into physical shape and then gun shape.

Know your gun and your limitations and you'lll be fine. I believe that the 308's capabilities outreach most shooters.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

I know I'm gonna hear a lot of shit about 165gr bullets are lightning in a bottle but I wouldn't send anything after an elk smaller than a premium 180gr bullet using a 30 calibre. I've never shot an elk with a .308 but I've shot two with a 30-06 using a 200gr partition. They killed handily enough but I moved up thru a 7mag, a 300WM, a .338Wm to a 8mm Rem mag. Always with a heavy for calibre bullet. The 8mm was too brutal for me, so I backed off to the .338 and ended my "career" as a great white elk hunter using a 300WM. I liked to shoot it so I shot it often and as a result, shot it well. In it, I used 200gr Grand Slams.
I doubt that I have ever shot an elk at over 150 yards.

I would simply choose a bullet/cartridge combo that will penetrate to the vitals from behind the last rib at the farthest range you can responsibly shoot from field positions.

I see no point in limiting oneself in the field with going too light. But if you insist on limiting something, make it range, not shot angle. Though each compromises the other if you go too light you will get neither.

It would be a shame to make a good stalk then have to pass on a 200-yd deep-angle shot just because you're undergunned.

For timber (200 yds or less)I'd take /06 or better with 180+ (partitions/X/Swift etc)

Anything more open and I'll be carrying .300 mag or better with the same bullets.

[ 06-27-2003, 04:08: Message edited by: steve y ]

If everything goes right, a .308 will work fine.

But if you are hunting timber and the only shot presented is up the tail pipe, then using a .308 is asking for trouble.

While we are talking about .308s and such things about big game hunting I would like to ask this one about the .308, say, paired up with the Browning BAR - any comments on this one as far as accuracy and reliability in the field and on the hunt except in the worst of conditions?!

I have an Uncle that shoots nothing but a .308. And in over 60 years of hunting, Its rare for him to shoot more than once. The .308 will be fine, any good 165 to 180 gr bullet will do fine. You may want to look at a 165 gr Fail safe, if they shoot in your rifle, I would use one of those. If your rifle keeps them in a 2 inch circle at 100 yards, your golden. As for those 400 yard Elk shots, thats way further than I'm willing to shoot these days. I taken shots a litte further, but there is to much that can go wrong. I hunted elk with 6.5x55 various 7mm's and 338's. I like the 338 a lot as an elk cartridge, because most of my elk hunting has been in the deep Black Lodge Poles. Of late I been putting my elk hunting dollars into Roosevelt Elk. My guess is that when I get a shot, it will be under 60 yards. I did not draw a tag so, there is Moose.

John17 -

As the others have said, the .308 Win using a premium bullet,in either 165 or 180 grains, will do just fine. If you just want to justify a new rifle, then I suggest that you get a .338 Win Mag. if you can handle the recoil.

TreeFarmer

While I use my 375 for elk, I would echo what the others have said, use what ever you are comfortable with and choose your shot. I just happen to be most comfortable with the 375. That said, NEVER pass up an excuse to get another gun!

[ 06-28-2003, 05:47: Message edited by: 375hnh ]

I live in the middle of elk country, last fall I shot a elk twice through the heart with a 150 grain 30-06 bronze point reload and it still ran about 75 yards in to a draw and expired. I've gotten one each fall for the last 6 years. Study the pictures in the book the "Perfect Shot" . The heart is lower then most think. Shot placement is the most important. SHOT PLACEMENT, job number one.
Use 180 grain, more knock down power. And just because it runs doesn't mean to shoot another one.
Also its more important for you too be in good physical condition when climbing at 8,000-10,000 feet if your going into the mountains.
Due to the landscape it's hard to judge distance especially in sagebrush. 400 yards is a long way to make a good shot.
Tracking a wounded elk is near impossible unless you have a horse or are a runner for fun. If the wounds a gut shot you won't find it. The achers know that. In snow it's easy,but in dry ground very difficult to impossible. I call them 4 wheel drive deer. 200 yards is practical.
Elk are noisy, walk quietly and you can get very close, there sight and scenting ability are amazing at least. They are creatures of habit like cows, they hang in the same area unless troubled or need water or food.
Come to my neighborhood and we'll do some dry runs
I "practice hunt" with my children in the summer. (scouting for the fall)
Have you figured out how your going to deal the 400 lbs of wet meat yet. The most rifles will do there job, it's the people that have the problems.
I hard to just roll a cow elk over for gutting.
I have a friend that has a hay ranch that has a herd of about 150 elk that continually visit. Last summer while working at the ranch on there cabin. The elk got so noisy at dawn they woke me up, great experience. Wonderful creatures, too majestic to wound.
And it happens all the time. The rancher found 4 dead ones outside his property from some jackleg
"hunters". Get good with your 308 and read a few books.
I used to live in Springfield, Va.
There are only a few things in life as beautiful the rugged mountains and steams of Idaho in early October.