I will start by saying all the big game I have taken has been with archery (western game) or shot gun slugs (midwest), so humor me here please.

Alot of elk, deer, bears are killed all the time with Remington coreloks, so why is everyone against them? What is the difference between Hornadys interlock, coreloks, and power points?

I understand the construction differences between partitions, bear claws, etc. , but do you really need them on most good shots at non dangerous game?

I am going to start hunting with rifles some is why I ask. As stated I have killed deer, elk, etc. with archery and seen many taken with coreloks, so I am just curious on feed back is all.

Thanks for educating me on the difference between those and your actual experiences with any listed above, failures with deer elk.

I'll give you the theory. It's called the "Why Not Theory" Bullets like Corelokts are really very good but bullets like Partitions are more flexable as they have a stronger base.

So with all the effort it takes to get yourself a shot at big game why not use a $.40 cent bullet instead of a $.15 cent bullet?

You touch on a broad subject and finances ain't the answer.

Impact velocity is what causes a projectile to do it's job,or fail miserably.

Simply stated,the faster the cartridge,the more sense it makes to choose a rugged projectile. Doubly so,as critters grow in size and tenacity.

For my money,the X takes the cake in all avenues...........

too many tons of game, mean and otherwise, have been killed using those three bullets to trash them with any creditability. At speeds of , say, 3000fps and under they still do an excellent job. The modern trend of larger cartridges driving lighter bullets at higher speeds has pushed some of the traditional bullets into situations for which they were not intended and they have come short of the mark. Thus the trend toward "premium" (harder) bullets. I am of the school of thought that if you're driving a bullet over 3000fps, you need more bullet, not more speed. Thus, when I hunt around the house, I use Rems and Horns, if I'm making a long planned "special" hunt, I take advantage of any added edge I can get and use premium bullets. ie grand slams or partitions.

hunting1
Its becuase all these guy's with there super duper MAGs have to have those super bullets -at the super fps velocities so they can get a bullet to actually enter the vital areas at any angal(Read TX Heart Shot) and not fall apart Seriously though depending on the Caliber of the rifle you choose to use and what game you choose to hunt in most aplications thoose Core Loks in the appropriate wieght will do just fine

Savage99
If that .15 bullet kills the game just as dead as your .40 bullet do you think the animal in question care?

[ 01-31-2003, 22:28: Message edited by: Gunnut45/454 ]

I know that if I am going to hunt an out of state animal like elk and pay $500 for a tag, i am sure as hell going to use the better bullet. it is crazy not to spend a few pennies more for something that important, however, the new core lokt ultra's are pretty darned good. I wouldn't hesitate using them.

Some of the old Cor-Loks seem to still work well. The 180 gr. bullet in the 30'06, or the 120 gr. 25-06 bullet, seems to be cases in point. Some, like the 130 gr. .270, or the 150 gr. .308 - 30'06 bullet don't seem to do nearly as well.
I'm going to wait on the new Cor-loks. The reason is the reports I've seen about Remington ammo loaded with the Swift Scirocco. When loaded straight from Swift, they work beautifully, and shoot great. Very consistantly made, etc. When Remington loads them, they fail, or come apart. E

hunting1,

Very good question and you will get alot of different answrs on AR.

My view is this and you touched on it with "but do you really need them on most
good shots at non dangerous game?

You will not always get a good shot at game - I will nearly always try to wait for the perfect
side on shot for my first shot, and in this situation alot of bullets will work as can be seen by
the different bullets people use. HOWEVER, if a second shot is needed at a going away animal,
so the need is to get a bullet from the rump to the vitals, I work on the theory (and I have put it into
practive in the field) that this is where you need the better bullets to achieve this.

razorback mentioned cost and I agree with him - if I am going to spend $$$$thousands going
on a hunt and the ONLY thing connecting me with the game is the bullet, then I will want to be using
the bullet that is going to give me the best chance. Howevr in my view it is the one item that hunters seem to skimp on.

500 Nitro

Nothing wrong with any of them. I shot an Elk last year with a 338 Ein Mag using the 250 gr. Powerpoint, Axis deer with a 300 Win Mag and 165 gr. Hornady Interlok, Blackbuck and Whitetail the previous year with a 308 and 150 gr. Hornady's. I usually use whichever bullet shoots best in a particular rifle, but if going to Africa, as I hope to do in a year or so, I'll go with controlled expansion bullets. I'm experimenting with 250 gr. Barnes X now in the 338 to see how they do.

They are all great points, and it's a no brainer for dangerous game, but I live in the land of elk and oryx and I bet the majority I see taken are with factory Remingtons or arrows. I load Hornadys and Noslers, but as I said I am going to use the rifle this year finally. Thanks

hunting1: "Alot of elk, deer, bears are killed all the time with Remington coreloks, so why is everyone against them?"

Hey hunting1, By your own reasoning, not everyone is against the Standard Grade bullets. You are correct that a whole lot of Big Game(of all kinds) is taken with them every year.

The above posters who encourage the use of "Premium Grade" bullets are correct in that they allow more confidence for a clean kill in case that the bullet doesn't go exactly where they originally intended, or if they desire deeper penetration, or if they might hit a "tough" shoulder bone on an Elk, Moose, etc.

Also, some of the above posters feel it is OK to take "Gut Shots" or shots at the "Wrong End" of Game if that is all they see. In those situations, the Premium Bullets will have a MUCH BETTER chance of that person being able to recover the Game, "IF" it is recovered at all.

hunting1: "What is the difference between Hornadys interlock, coreloks, and power points?"

Each has unique design characteristics that would be very lengthy to detail. If you go to their Web Sites you will be able to see all the differences. Even better is to stop by your local Gun Shop and pick up the FREE Reloading Component catalogs from each of them. (Just got a new Sierra one for myself yesterday.) Then you can lay them all out and look them over.

hunting1: "I understand the construction differences between partitions, bear claws, etc. , but do you really need them on most good shots at non dangerous game?"

With the key words being, "on most good shots", the answer is - No, but they perform different "internally" on the Game. So, some folks still like them better. Plus, the chances of getting an "Exit" with a Premium are much better on a BIG critter than when using a Standard.

hunting1: "... As stated I have killed deer, elk, etc. with archery and seen many taken with coreloks,..."

As long as you restrict yourself to the "same shots" you would take with your bow and use "heavy for caliber" bullets, the Standard Grade bullets will work fine.

I use nothing but Standard Grade bullets on Whitetail, Black Bears and Hogs and am at no disadvantage at all with the shots I take. That said, if I was going to go after an Elk, Moose, etc., I'd practice with my Standards and hunt with a Premium - just in case a shoulder presents itself.

Good post.

My family has used traditional soft points, mostly by Sierra, but also the Hornadys and Speers, in 150 to 180 grains in their 06s for years. Most of the time they don't have any problems at modest velocities. However, my dad had several consecutive Sierra 165 gr GameKings blow up on deer under 100 yards and almost lost an elk because of them. He moved up to the 180 gr GameKings this year. I myself have seen a 150 gr CoreLokt blow up at 40 yards from a .270 Win on a small mule buck. Granted all these animals died, but my brother and I now hunt with belted magnums--he with a .300 Win and me with a 7mm Rem. At these velocities, a premium controlled expanion bullet with a tough base makes good sense. We both use Nosler Partitions now, he a 180 gr and me a 160 gr.
Now then, it doesn't take much to kill a deer. They are light skinned with a small skeletal structure. Even if a soft point blows up, in most cases, the vitals will be sufficently damaged to quickly and humanely kill the animal. We both hunt elk as well, which are tenacious creatures. They are much more than "just big deer," they are stronger and bigger boned. Experiencing a bullet failure on an elk is bad news. For elk you need a bullet that can break a shoulder and still make it to the vitals with sufficent energy and mass at any velocity--this means controlled expansion and penetration. I know it can be done but I personally wouldn't advise shooting an elk with a soft point out of a magnum.
I am planning on trying the 160 gr Accubonds this summer. As a bonded bullet in the heavy/moderate weight category, it should do fine as well. I stayed away from the Swift Sciroccos simply cause I consider anything under 160 gr in .284 called another deer bullet.
The CoreLokts, Power Points, ect, have earned their stay in Bulletdom. However, IMO, they are deer bullets, not elk bullets.

O and for the record, I do not beleive in Texas heart shots. I passed up bucks this year on several occassions simply cause all I had was a Texas Heart shot. Even though my 7mm and 160 gr Partitions had all the punch I needed. I also do not beleive in gut shots or shots to the hip/pelvis, for any reason, with any bullet, out of any gun, at any range. I consider the ideal shot on any game to be a quartering towards shot through the point of the forward shoulder and diagonally through the chest cavity. If an elk pops up at 40 yards it is going to take a little bullet ingetrity to make this shot. Also, I do not beleive premium bullets are an excuse for poor shot placement. I merely think the confidence and versitility they offer, esp with a magnum against tough game like elk, is worth the extra money.

[ 02-03-2003, 02:48: Message edited by: FarRight ]

I always liked the power point, Corelokt bullets, and if you take all your shots broadside on deer and elk then they will work fine...they will even work on deer lenthwise. Any quality bullet will work on deer....

Elk is another story, I want a premium bullet as I take whatever shot is presented and I have to have the penitration..I like the heavy for caliber Noslers, Failsafe, Northforks, GS Custom and such....It is about 12" through and elk broadside, so a Corelokt will work there, but I seldom see an elk broadside these days...most going south and I need a bullet that will dump them on their nose, for me that is a 338 with a 300 gr. Woodleigh RN or a 250 Nosler....I like the 200 and 220 gr. 30 cal. bullets on elk also..

I find bullet choice to be more important than caliber by a long shot.

I've used all the factory bullets for longer than some here have drawn breath. Many are damn good, but if you hunt enough, there'll come a day when you question your bullet selection. You spend a lot of money on your gear, your travel and your time. Your bullet is the only thing that reaches out and touches your quarry. Why scimp on the one physical thing that matters most? Why not be best prepared for any and all shot presentations?
"Send Premiums ... when only the best will do."

I have shot a bunch of game and I just can't bring myself to accept corelokt bullets as reasonable when, to paraphrase Nickudu, "you spend so much time and money on everything else". I had a core-lokt fail on a bison neck shot from a 45-70 when it broke up on the side of the skull and have been a bit skittish about them ever since. An X-bullet would have plowed on through and done the job even after losing all of its petals.

For better or worse, I also have a few texas heart shots to my credit on both NA and African game and when a barnes x-bullet from a .416 doesn't exit the chest cavity of a whitetail or a bushbuck sized critter, I have a tough time believing a core lokt will even make it there.

In an age of such phenomenal bullet technology, why, unless you are a once-a-year dear hunter who , including the sighting in on the rifle, fires about 20 rounds from his 30-06 all season (not that there is anything paricularly wrong with these guys if they can shoot well and take game ethically) why not step up and ensure proper bullet performance on your quarry of choice and given your chosen calibre. As has been stateed above, non-premium bullets shoudln't even be made available in factory loadings for some of todays ultra-high velocity rounds.

JMHO,

JohnTheGreek

I agree with everyone here and just wanted some opinions. As a hunter I never critcize anyones opinion, because what I think may be different than you, does not make me right.
I personally would not shoot an animal in rear, but that is just me. I also as a bow hunter am used to getting close, so 200 yards is long ways out for me.

I personally agree though that if you think something is going to fail than why risk it. But I live where there is elk and have killed myself, so I know they are big critters. Alot get hammered by Remingtons every year. I myself though will go with Noslers, because I reload cost is not bad. If I was going to pay for a trip absolutely I wouldn't scrimp on bullet cost! Thanks for your input.

Good shoot'n!

[ 02-04-2003, 22:40: Message edited by: hunting1 ]

This subject needs some spice..

Lots of good reasons to select "Premium" bullets, but I guess Im hard headed because Im not convinced that some of these bullets are that much superior. For instance, I still pay attention to things like mushrooming charicteristics, remember when that actually mattered? In that aspect I would grade North fork right at the top, but certian "conventional" bullets I would place above a Barnes and a Partition.

A deep, long wound channel is always reassuring especially with an accurate rifle, but what about the diameter of a wound channel? I dont like the narrow wound channels of an X (unless its for something like elephant or Cape buff where it really IS nessesary), or the way that the frontal core of a partition is practically garanteed to seperate even at 30-06 velocities. I saw the picture of their jacket completly folded back and that is NOT what I would call "superior mushrooming charicteristics" as Nosler claims.

I dont doubt that even so these bullets just work, but for an Elk, a bigger diameter bullet with a heavy weight will do a better job. The real drawback to that reasoning is not less penetration, but that the shooter generally needs to get closer, thats the real difference!

With the advent of the "Premium" bullet, these things always take a back seat in bullet disgussions and penetration becomes the last word in bullet performance. If you shoot a Magnum then the need for a tougher bullet is understandable. I dont! And I am also sceptic about how some high dollar bullets could fail to open at lower velocities, that is where a partition has an edge over a monolithic.

IMO the only useless bullet is the premium for light game, its nothing but an oxymoron and a waste of money even at magnum velocities. But I guess if youve got it, might as well flaunt it..

I have used most of the bullets that are available today partitions, barnes, hornady, speer, sierra etc. Some observations that I have noticed are that if the shot is taken from a bad angle (steep quartering shot, texas heart shot etc) then a premium bullet like the barnes or partition will usually kill the animal faster, however, on a classic broadside double lung shot a "standard" bullet like a hornady or speer hot core will kill faster than a premium bullet. I think the reason for this is like westernhnter stated the difference in wound channel. The premium bullets appear to make more of a tube shaped wound channel whereas the standard is more of a balloon shaped. I think either will work its just a matter of personel preference.

[ 02-06-2003, 08:46: Message edited by: mtelkhunter ]

Hunting1,
Why use a broadhead when a target point will kill a deer? You probably see where I am going here.
I use my rifle to hunt Elk, and I need a bullet that will perform from 20 - 600 yards (Before I get jumped here, I will only shoot at 600 yards if the animal is wounded). For my purpose, I only use premium bullets. Although accuracy is the most important factor, I will sacrifice a bit of accuracy for bullet preformance.