I finally got some time off and go deer hunting on some private land with my buddies, one part-time game warden and another is a state policeman. To make a long story short we spend our hunting season running off or arresting road hunters, tresspassing hunters, and one guy bold enough to be drinking beer and driving with a 270 out the window and 4 kids in the back with rifles. One likable fellow started yelling threats late at night towards our camp. I put on my NOD's and tracked him through the brush and convinced him that would be unwise. Day three, my game warden friend got shot at from the road (he was the only one wearing orange). When we went to town the local sherriff was making people break camp that was literally camping on the side of the road next to posted land.
One question, this may be isolated but have any of encountered this anywhere else? Is this the future of hunting in the US?

The only times I have been shot at hunting (2) was in NM. Both times it was out of state (happened to be TX both times by coincidence) roadhunters. Once was my truck got shot while I was driving it (was ex state patrol truck with the dark brown paintjob), and once I was walking along the side of a canyon, second time I shot back deliberately missing by 50ft or so. I think my point got made, scared the sh*t out of them.

Well Tom, that sounds just about the same as my hunting experience this year. I only hunt on my own land but you would be surprised at the number of hunters that walked up on us, then turn and run. I managed to run down a few and they just think they can hunt anywhere the hell they want. And I am the bad guy for calling the game warden. I saw more road hunters and trespassers this season than any other in my life. They wore out the gravel roads around here. But the real sad part is that the first group I caught by following the smell of beer, I had them arrested and they were out in 1/2 a day. I saw their truck stop in front of one of my wheat fields the next morning and before I could get to them they had 3 calves shot and killed. I recieved a call today that they caught the driver and he will be spending some time behind bars, he also talked on all his buddies so they should be joining him soon. I only hope this isn't any indication of the future of deer hunting. They give hunters a very bad name.

Sooner

Hi Sooner
I'm sorry to hear about those three calves.
I hate people who harm animals when they can't or are too scared to attack you.
I hope you get damages out of them I think a civil action for damages(a la OJ) may inflict
extra pain and suffering for the scumbag gutless bastards!
Glad you got 'em Sooner!
Regards
Deafdog

------------------
deafdog@turboweb.net.au
http://deafdog.turboweb.net.au

While it's not quite that bad around here, it's not pleasant. I hunt on 3 farms mostly and have hunted on these for a number of years. On the 1st farm they are still kinda open about letting most hunt but as time goes on getting less and less open. The 2nd only 4 non family members can hunt and sadly most family cann't..Around here you can get quite a few deer a year but you have a lot of what I call macho idiots. They drive around on 4 wheelers, never getting off, usally have mega caliber rifles,in an area 150yds are kinda long, they cut fences so they can go, will travel several farms,drive around till they jump a deer and blaze away till it drops or gets away. It really burns my butt there are so many anymore but it makes me boiling mad that if it's a doe they shot, which is legal, they leave it lay cause you have to get a buck to be a man.
These idiots are ruining the area and pissing off farmers. I can hunt and have a solid friendship with several and even get called if they have a problem critter they can't seem to get, but the future looks sad indeed.JMHO............

HERE IN IDAHO ITS PRETTY BAD AS WELL, THERES EVEN TALK OF BANNING 4-WHEELERS ALTOGETHER GOR HUNTING AND MAKING IT HORSE OR FOOT TRAFFIC ONLY. A RANCHER BUDDY OF MINE HAD A CUTTING TORCH STOLEN AND THROWN IN HIS CANAL JUST FOR THE HELL OF IT. NOW HE ONLY LETS PEOPLE IN THAT HE KNOWS PRETTY WELL, WHEN IT USED TO BE ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS ASK AND HE'D SAY YES. WELL THATS ABOUT PAR LEAVE IT TO A FEW IDIOTS TO RUIN IT FOR EVERYBODY!

Short243, I have lived in West Va for about 2yrs now and have found many of these food stamp using, welfare sucking, adc grubbin' low lived droolers think they have a birthright to hunt anytime, anything, anywhere they want. And the old "ah'm feedin' mah family" don't cut it. They'll kill a doe out of season, pull the backstraps and leave the rest to rot.

Oh, 4 wheelers and cutting fences, we ran across that too but they turn and run when they see you. Here it is against the law to hunt off of them or any motorized vehicle but they do it anyway because there are so few game wardens or law enforcement. The good thing if they are drinking the get charged with DWI even on private land. And aggrevated if they have a gun.

Man, what the heck is going on out west these days?

Sadly, the ATV riding fatbody is becoming a common sight here in the east as well. These guys are always kitted out with the 7mm, 300 ultra-wounders, gps, frs radios, etc.

If you can manage to get lost in Pennsylvania, you should be sterilized.

I've noticed that wherever I find high concentrations of these idiots, I also find high concentrations of out-of-state license plates (OH, NY, WV, etc.). This is the same observation that my family members who still live in MT, WY, ND, SD, AZ, UT, CO have made as well. Not all of these out-of-staters are slobs, but many of them are.

I've observed this same phenomenon from visitors from outside the US when I bartended in New York. People would come over to visit, get out of hand, talk trash, break stuff - maybe glass somebody in the face, and then they would be off to where they came from. It's the same with Americans visiting other countries. And it's sad.

You would think that a guest would have more respect for the host - but that is not the case. They see it as license to act irresponsibly.

I think that it's great when these idiots are prosecuted - but it seems that they've already done irreparable damage to the sport and to those who pursue it legitimately. Increasingly, the hunter is becoming the Elmer Fudd carricature - which best serves the Anti's in their crusade to delegitimize the sport.

I'm from Roswell also and just curious where you were hunting.

Hey Bee, just noticed you from WV, I used to live up in Frametown, nice area, wife got tired of the trip to work soooo. Anyway where abouts you located,I'm familar with the Rosedale road area.....

Boy, after hearing all this I'll stick to hunting on our lease in south Georgia swamps.
Ralph

I've been pretty steamed about four wheelers for a few years. I've heard all the stories about "I only use it to get where I'm going", or "it's the only way I can still hunt", or, in today's paper, "they keep the game from spoiling".

Fact is, 97% of them aren't used that way. They are used like the two 38 year olds I ran into pheasant hunting last week. Two young guys, following a dog over gently rolling hills, hunting pheasants. On four wheelers. Made me want to puke. Dutch.

short243, after trashing out the locals maybe I shouldn't say....... :-)
On rosedale road between wilsie and rosedale.
You may be kin to my wife. everybody else is.

I've seen some of those same idiots here in New Mexico and in Colorado and in Wyoming. It's frightening AND it really pisses me off. Now days I drive to where the road ends (and that means "quad roads" too) and walk a couple of miles and then start hunting. It seems that the idiots are lazy and I only run into REAL hunters back in the hills.

Hey Dutch,

What's the rarest thing in the woods? A quad with no-one sitting on it!

Seriously though, I have no problem with people using ATV's where it is legal to do so, provided they aren't cutting trails, tramping the alpine or rutting up creek beds. I don't own one but I have used them for work and for hunting. Heck, I grew up with a 3-wheeler stuck to my butt. But I do get real tired of all the BS, like the "excuses" you pointed out. If they are only being used to get into areas, you should see un-occupied ones parked everywhere!

If ATV owners don't organize themselves and start actively promoting responsible use, and actively discouraging abuse, either the problem will get much worse or their use will become greatly restricted. Either way, everyone will end up losing.

Canuck

I live in ND and run into the same problems here. My uncle leases some land to bowhunt whitetails. You would be surprised at the number of people that sneak on the land to poach deer. Or some even shoot from the road. Then to top it off we are threatened, yelled at, cussed at, and made to look like bad guys because we turn them into the game warden! A lot of these guys would be allowed to hunt if they just asked.

We also see a lot of guys "hunting" with their snowmobiles. It makes me mad to see them running down deer and shooting them and then having the nerve to call themselves hunters.

These guys are the ones who are ruining it all for the rest of us and it really makes me mad.

Hear, hear Canuck!
I personally like a horse or my feet most of the time, but I've been entertaining the thought of an ATV recently.

I want to use it to acess deactivated roads, not so I can sit on my butt and putt around, but so I can get up there, park it, and go hunting on foot. You know what a deactivated road can do to a truck!

Like most others, I don't have the luxury of spending a day every weekend just to get up an old logging road on foot. I view an ATV-properly used- as an acess vehicle. NOT a hunting platform.

If I had the ability to use horses, I would. Right now, although I have sufficient land, I don't have the time for livestock. Just the way it is,

Fellows

Next time I go to the united wild west states hunting,I will wear kevlar "t-shirt", maybe an extra assault rifle with loads of magazines and some green easter eggs.

The "gentlemen hunters" you have in the states should have been "taken away" at the hospital right after they were born. Assholes don't belong in the wild. Hunting is a serious sport for responsible people who know their limit. Sad to hear about this development.

Never ever heard of anything like this in Sweden....soo far.

First off, let me say I agree that the atv is the most abused type of transportation there is but the fact that a fellow owns one doesn't automatically make him a slob nor a bad person. If you get on a horse and ride 20 miles into the way beyond to hunt, you're one helluva sportsman; get on an atv and make the same trek and you're a slob. I don't understand that reasoning. Also, back in the good old days, quail were usually hunted with the shooters riding horses or in carriages. Why not now an atv? Times change. You folks that are crying about the atv's, I assume you're using a 30-30 and stalking within 50-60yds of your prey, right? So you can be sure of a kill using the buckhorn sights that came with the gun, right? You're not using some hyper velocity boomer with a state of the art scope are you? That permits you to lob shots at an animal from several hundred yards? The point I am trying to make is that the boomer and the atv are advances in technology. And both have their place. And everyone should agree that they both have been abused.

I have had to change my hunting area's two times in the last 2 yrs due to an overabundance of hunters and lose of private property access (leased to someone else) I hunt with a .54 frontstuffer rather than the allowed shotgun here in Indiana and have no choice but to hunt in the national forest. It's tough to find a deer after the first day, to many semi-auto shotguns with 5 rounds in the hands of people who blast away and running deer........must think their hunting quail.........Luckly ATV's are not allowed where I hunt, and being rather hilly, it slows down a lot of the slobs. I grew up in Okla quail hunting with dear ole dad and we always had permission to hunt. From the other posts, maybe I am not as bad off as I thought....

If the shoe fits wear it, but our posts reflect those Morons that lack the sense to be responsible and not ruin it for everone else. Using an ATV to reach a more remote hunting ground is admirable not unresponsible. Cutting fences, drinking and driving, shooting at fellow hunters simply because they got permission to hunt on private land and you didn't seem to bother, camping and hunting off the road, hunting from motorized vehicles, poaching, hunting on private land without permission, destroying private property, chasing deer, etc. that is what we are talking about. If everyone played by the same rules there would be plenty of hunting to go around, but there are those out there that are so self-centered and lazy that want to screw everone else as long as I get mine. Get ready in New Mexico thet are going to deputize up to 900 volunteer game wardens to help turn back this BS. The ranchers and responsible hunters are tired of this crap!

Horses and ATV's-Apples and Oranges. No comparison! ATV's and Jet Skis, now there you have two scourges of the outdoors. There are some really good folks that use this "technology" properly.but they certainly not in the majority. Horses win every time. If it came down to influencing the non-hunting majority whether or not they favored hunters in the back country, do you think a hunter on a horse or an ATV would be the most positive influence. NO BRAINER!

Well I thought Id chime in because this thread sort of touched a nerve for me.

I dont have any private property to hunt on but Ive always respected those who do. Ive asked for permission to fish on some private property in the past and Im here to tell you that its gettiing tougher all the time to get permission. All over my hunting grounds of years gone by there are becoming more and more fencelines, cabins, closed roads, etc. Whats a guy to do? I dont have the answers but I do know there are two things that chap my butt.

1- A few ignorant jerks will ruin everything for the rest of us every time. I believe Tom A put it best, their attitude is screw everyone else (and everything!) as long as I get mine.

2- For many people who DO have a lot of land, hunting has become about one thing and Im not talking about bringing back the good ol days when a simple knock on the door was all it took to get permission. They are no less self absorbed than the drunken low lifes so despised in this thread.
Then again I suppose its the irresponsible jerks that started the need for a lot of "no tresspassing" signs everywhere and I cant blame anyone for protecting themselves from vandals.

It is all very sad to see, my 6 year old son will have a lot tougher time gaining the quality outdoor experience that could be easily had not so long ago.

A friend and I went to a public WMA here in VA this morning -- based on counting the cars in 3 parking areas there were easily as many hunters per square mile as there were deer.

We found another tract of the same WMA, harder to get to, with far, far fewer hunters and *lots* of fresh sign.

I'm going to check the zero on my muzzleloader tomorrow so I can go out in the National Forest for the late season in a couple weeks. Let it snow, let it snow, let it snow!

[This message has been edited by John Frazer (edited 12-08-2001).]

you guys are scaring me, I've been trying to talk my wife into moving back down to the lower 49 for two years now and she keeps saying I won't like it because of all the people. Maybe she's right. sounds like you can't find anyplace to hunt that's not in a crowd of idiots. I moved to Alaska 10 years ago because I almost got shot by a guy who was shooting at a deer I had already killed. I was just about to start gutting it out when bullets started whizzing past me. He shot 4 times at a dead deer while I was standing over it yelling at him. Actually, I was standing over it for the first shot but after that I was hiding in the rocks. I figured you could still find public land to hunt on and not be in a crowd someplace down there, or is that a thing of the past?

Here in upper Michigan is quite bad but not as bad as some of you have. We have a 1 1/2 mile pieace of road going through fedral land that has marches on both sides. 6000 acres of good white tail hunting for those who don't mind walking 1/4 mile across this march which on a wet year will have 6 inches of water in it. Nobody but my partner and I ever do. The people drive up and down that road all day and all night with guns in view. Those driving up and down the roads are not hunters, there fore the term road hunter isn't a proper term. they are called road trash, slob ect. here. Tresspassing is also a problem here the law officer told me once he wasn't going going in the woods to get a tresspasser because it was hunting season and he was wearing his brown uniform. It took me 20 miniutes to get him to leave so I could run that tresspasser off. People don't tresspass on mine much any more as there is a dam nut lives there and isn't above seeing how close he can shoot to you with out hitting you. SOB's weren't sopposed to be there and I was target shooting. tresspassing will get ya hurt.
Al

I agree with Ovis 100%. You cannot compare a living, breathing, bucking, kicking...you get my point, to a brain dead slob support system. Not only are horses a source of life long learning, they are a lot of work, risk, responsibility and frustration. I have never ridden an ATV but I gaurantee I would master it in about 5 minutes if I was to ever comprimise my integrity for that long. Even on large tracts of unroaded wilderness here in BC, ATV's are negatively affecting the quality of hunting for true hunters. Illegal trails are being cut into alpine habitats and wild areas , riparian zones are use for the fun of mudbogging, grasslands are tracked up, legislated closures are being purposely violated by quads. And it's not the ATV's doing the damage, it is the attitude that is riding them. And that's how they are teaching their kids to treat the outdoors. They can run each other over on the thousands of miles of dirt roads we have but where the road ends, so should they. Ain't that right Canuck?

Iceman, I'll agree that most atv's I've seen are smarter than horses. Now a good saddle mule, that's a different story.

I don't have much use for the idiots that ride ATV's. I have an area that has taken me three years to learn where the elk are. This year, after spotting a small herd, three jackasses on ATV's cut in front of me to get at those elk. They killed three. Later one, two days later, I got my cow elk. I had to walk back to my truck to get my wife to help me with the gutting and quartering. When we got to the area of my kill, there was a gut pile, my torn off bloody tag and two thieves riding off into the distance, each with half my elk on the back of their ATV's. It's a damn good thing they were well out of the range of my rifle. There never was a lot of ATV use in that area before, but this year they sprang up like weeds.
I was talking to a rancher who'd lost a cow and was trying to locate it. He said the Forest service was seriously considering banning ATV's from Forest service land entirely, or if they were allowed, to severely restrict where they could be used.
Of course, the slobs will ignore the ban, or any restrictions anyway. That's why they're called slobs.
Paul B.

In my part of Missouri, I have yet to see any one on a ATV or hunting from the road. Almost all of this area is rural cattle country and most of the landowners here do not mind if you hunt their property, permission or not, as long as you are walking. Someone hunting while driving an ATV is likely to get it shot full of holes since he ruining the hunting for those already there. Nobody objects to you driving your truck to get a downed deer.

Road hunters don't last the day as someone will turn them in and we're not above helping the local Sheriff chase them down.

Road Hunters:

Hunting's brainless version of a terrorist!

I can't tell ya'll how many times I have had people point guns at me while hunting. This year on the first day of Buck season I was sitting in my treestand on private property ( only like 10 people have pemission to hunt here) and this guy comes out of nowhere and gets in his stand les then 50 yards away from me. Man was I pissed I got down and went over to him and asked who he was, and who gave him permission to hunt there. Well to make a long story short I told him to leave and as he did I tore his stand out of the tree and it is stil laying there 3 weeks later. As for the 4 wheeler's They are not a badthing if used properly, like I know this guy who rides it to the edge of the woods gets off it and walks a ways back in, then if he gets 1 he drags it to the edge of the woods then pulls it over the hill.

There Isn't any such animal as a ROAD HUNTER! Those slobs aren't any better than those on ATV's spoiling the hunting for real hunters.
Al

I just moved from western North Carolina where you couldn't use ATV's on any of the wildlife areas, except for a place near Murphy NC called Tellico. I loved the fact that if you put in a little effort you could be away from everyone from everyone inside a mile of walking. I feel sorry for those of you who have to put up with the people to lazy to walk it (the elderly and truly handicapped are obviously excluded)