I just finished reading an article put on Garret Cartridges website and I am amazed to say the least. This is the single worst attempt at marketing I have seen yet. They bash all of the 458 magnums in favor of the 45-70 because its lower velocity penetrates deeper. I have two 45-70 rifles and a few 458 magnums including a Lott and I have tested penetration on both cartridges. The 458 Lott kicks the living hell out of the 45-70 in wet phone books. The race is not even close. Does Garret think we are really gullible enough to but their propaganda?

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.asp

Here is the article.

He clearly states that his experiment used wet newspaper, so even if he's all wet, he can still claim freedom of the press.

LOL, well said Recono.

This subject has been beaten to death almost as much as the sierra matchking contoversy. I won't believe it until I see the entire testing protocol AND perform it for myself...or until someone who has nothing to sell does it. Also, wet newspapers are NOT the same as living tissue. After having read and heard all this before, I personally would have alot of problems with choosing a 45-70 over my 458 Lott for dangerous game. But that's what choice is all about--so hunt with whatever floats your boat. No doubt that both are excellent cartridges in their own right.

Good Hunting,

I look forward to following the "45-70 reins supreme trend" over in the African Hunting section where I guess all those boys will now be hunting Cape Buffalo and the like with 45-70's as their first choice.

The ONLY possible explanation is he's talking about cast bullets, that, perhaps, deform at higher speeds, yet do punch, long, deep, holes at lower velocities.

Remember, Garrett may not admit the existence of
mono-solids, etc, since, IIRC, the only thing he loads are cast bullets(does he still have one jacketed round he loads?).

s

It's bull shit, all the PH's would be using the 45/70's over .458 Lotts if this where the case. The proof will be in what is used in the field end of story

Socrates, the article says Hornady 500-grain .458 diameter solid bullet. (Solid?)

When I get a 458 win mag I will test and test and test. If 45-70 velocities actually penetrate better, I�ll post it.

So what is the best medium to test against? I was thinking of using wet and dry phonebooks, 2 liter bottles full of water, ice, sand, clay, wood.

Garret get crazier evey day he is even starting to believe his own bull shit.

So Ray, does this mean that you are not trading all the doubles and bolt guns for marlin lever action rifles in 45-70?

"Just on a hunch, I would recommend against volunteering to test the velocities under 2100 and over 2400. "

If you are buying, I'm volunteering.

I wonder if this is just a round nose against flat nose comparision?

I've always held, and I have a few people on my side on this one, that a Elmer Keith Style solid cuts a straighter, larger, and deeper hole then a round nosed bullet design.

Nobody denies the effectivenss of the flater nosed solids. Maybe Garrett is just picking the poorest solid design, and making shit up about it?

I may have to go with Ray on this one...

Check that. Garrett came to that conclusion after this test, I bet,

http://www.sixgunner.com/linebaugh/penetration_test.htm

While not conclusive, you will notice that the flat metplat bullets, IF they are long enough for caliber, do not tumble in wet newsprint.

It appears the Hornady does, and that's what limits it's penetration.

Still, 48 inches of penetration is pretty good...

s

[ 12-09-2003, 05:52: Message edited by: Socrates ]

It depends on how thick the skull is in terms of penetration and slow velocities