I was hunting deer the other day with my old man, on a piece of property we have hunted whitetail on for over 20 years. We have walked or crawled every square inch of the place, and each tree or brush patch has a story about "the buck we got here" or "remember that time we saw...".

Each time we hunt, we park our truck down at the ranch house and hike to our favorite spots on the place. It is always an enjoyable hike, seeing deer, hearing the birds, watching other forms of wildlife scurrying about.

Just last week, I harvested a nice four point whitetail buck up on the far end of the place. We were busy taking care of the critter and getting ready to drag the thing back towards the ranch house, when I saw this pickup truck on the neighbors ranch driving really fast then stopping. I looked with my binoculars, and I could see a guy inside looking our way. Anyhow, I didn't think much of it, and began to drag my buck. I noticed this guy drive real fast and dissappear behind a hill. Eventually, I saw him again, and he was on the ranch I hunt driving up to an irrigation ditch. I was getting a little suspicious at this point but kept dragging my buck. Well, this idiot then drives across a meadow, couldn't cross that ditch to catch us, so he drives back across the meadow, finds a crossing point on the ditch and drives all the way across another meadow to where my old man and I were standing. He then proceeds to chew our butts asking "don't you know where you're at??". At this point deer are running everywhere and he is sitting here trying to chew our butts. I tried to play it cool telling this dork we have hunted here forever and have all the permission in the world to hunt this piece of property, when he goes off about having the lease on the neighbors and that we're trespassing.

It was all I could do from keeping my old man from killing this dude, especially since we still were going to hunt in the afternoon and now since the outfitter dude scared every deer in the countryside off my Dad's prospects were looking a little grim.

When the outfitter finally realized that we did have permission to hunt, we thanked him for ruining our hunt, driving all over the landowner's place, and being a regular jackass in general.

It is sad, that a guy who has a place to hunt on private land can't even keep the f****** outfitters from bothering them on their vacation!! Hope the rest of you don't have such crappy luck.

MG

**It was good to see the look on the guy's face when he saw my buck, I guess he and his hunters had been watching him!! I guess I got the last laugh.

I'm not even involved and now I'm pissed.

It's shit like that that gets me. When an outfitter leases a property, or anyone else for that matter, they should walk the line with the owner and KNOW where the heck they should be and SHOULDN'T.

That is exactly the kind of crap that ruins hunting for many folks. Sorry to you and your dad, I hope he gets a big one anyway.

God I hate to agree with you, but I do ! The majority are piss-ants! Congrats on the deer, post some photos if ya can!

Madgoat,
It is a sorry but true commentary in hunting society in the United States today, but your experience with the outfitter happens way too often anymore. The reason for it, in my not so humble opinion, is monetary greed, pure and simple. Here in Montana about 15 years ago or so every sumbich with a horse trailer became a guide and outfitter. There was big money to be made from charging out of staters to kill everything from big horn sheep to even prairie dogs and the market for discretionary dollars has never abated. Public access was quietly and carefully cut off. Private lands were leased and access was again controlled. After all, it seems to pay better than growing herefords, so who can blame the rancher. It is called privatization of public resources and it will not quit until the American sportsman is once again hunting the "king's deer" as in days of old. I used to think that I'd rather be lost than depend upon a GPS ,but I have found on two occaisions where they have come in handy for a different reason. I've gotten into "cultural discussions" with irate outfitters about tresspassing and the GPS settled their hash without further conflict. However, I'm not against outfitters, if they are ethical and gentlemen, which most are. All you have to do is watch the Outdoor Channel to realize that they provide a service for way too many urban hunters who couldn't fine their butt with both hands. Get used to the pushy types, it will take more that a little while to weed thme out of the hunting business. They never were part of the hunting fraternity. Obviously you just hit a raw never in my tight jaw.

I too have experienced run-ins with "outfitters", one of which totally ruined an Antelope hunt. Long story that I'd rather not remember but it was the absolute worst hunting experience I've ever had.

This year during Deer season (see "A Terrific Deer Hunt" in this forum) I had the air let out of one of my truck's tires by an outfitter who thought I shouldn't hunt on the public land ajoining his lease. If I'd caought him at it I probably would have taken actions that would put my liberty at jepardy.

And then there was the time a couple years ago I had to sue an outfitter in court to get deposit money back. Thankfully a friend who is an attorney advised my on how to do it. Took 18 months but I did get all money back plus interest and expenses.

So far all my dealings with lower-48 outfitters have been unpleasant.

What an ass! I hope you post his name and outfit so nobody books a hunt with this idiot.

DTH

I too have experienced run-ins with "outfitters", one of which totally ruined an Antelope hunt. Long story that I'd rather not remember but it was the absolute worst hunting experience I've ever had.

This year during Deer season (see "A Terrific Deer Hunt" in this forum) I had the air let out of one of my truck's tires by an outfitter who thought I shouldn't hunt on the public land ajoining his lease. If I'd caought him at it I probably would have taken actions that would put my liberty at jepardy.

And then there was the time a couple years ago I had to sue an outfitter in court to get deposit money back. Thankfully a friend who is an attorney advised my on how to do it. Took 18 months but I did get all money back plus interest and expenses.

So far all my dealings with lower-48 outfitters have been unpleasant. Sorry it happened to you too.

I agree, this outfitter situation is ruining the hunting here in NE wyoming. It is out of control and something has to be done about it, They think they can control every piece of land and all the game..All for short term profits, once a ranch is shot out they don't lease it again.

i hate it when they contral the access to public land by not allowing the public to cross the hunting lease that they have contral of .

My brother in law has permission on a place. He went there and the outfitter on the neighbours place had blocked off all the trails with survey tape to keep the deer from leaving the land he was on. That's not even fair hunting for the client.

the chef

I don't believe they have the right nor does anyone else including the landowner to contol access to public land. Access is generally a condition of ownership one or around the public lands.
Unfortunately irate individuals generally also lose their rationality and aren't able to think before they act.

Sure glad you got the deer first and hopefully your father was also fortunate.
Frank

In Idaho, I believe I would have filed a complaint with the sheriff for interfering with hunters in the legal pursuit of game. He'd get a nice ticket out of it..... $500 or up to three months in the slammer, IIRC.

Outfitters have their place, but there certainly are bad apples. I've turned one in for hunting a closed unit before. Bitching on a forum won't help a thing, fines and court appearances do. JMO, Dutch.

I agree that you should have involved the law. At the minimum he was trspassing on the land you had permission to use, and also probably did some damage by driving over it...and some states do have hunter anti-harassment laws. It would've served him right, and maybe gotten him onto the radar of the local sheriff.

What a shame. I regret that you guys had such a terrible experience with that outfitter.

On the other hand, I have quite professional and positive experiences with outfitters. Notice that I said "professional". Because that's what the good ones are. They take every aspect of their job seriously; which includes knowing the the damn boundaries of their lease!!
To me that is the elementary portion of their job. Sadly, too many of the "wanna-be" outfitters cover-up their ignorance with arrogance. And the truth be known, they probably weren't outfitters the year before and won't be the year after.

Anyway, I consider myself lucky that I have my own lease and that the leased land around us is being leased by actual hunters, not an overnight outfitting company.

J Scott

I have posted on this subject on numerous occasions. I have been dealing with this issue professionally for over 35 years, and I get so damn mad about it that I can’t see straight at times. But nevertheless Frank, here it is again.

1) In the western United States there are millions of acres of state and federal land that have absolutely no public access. The Outfitting industry in particular and adjoining landowners in general have done extremely well in exploiting this situation.

2) During the 1930s (CCC era), there was a major effort to develop public access points to Forest Service ground. Subsequently, thousands of these easements that were developed in the 30s were forgotten and abandon by the Forest Service. I could write a dissertation on the reasons and the politics behind the lost of public access to federal lands, but I don’t think I could stand the frustration. Nevertheless, I can assure all of you that the hunters of the 50s had one hell of a lot more access routes (primarily pack trails and some primitive roads) to federal land than we have today. CP.

Being an outfitter in NE Wyoming, guiding people on deer and antelope hunts takes about as much skill as flipping burgers at Wendys. I say Wendy's because they have the square burgers that are easier to get ahold of to flip, so any retard can take the job and feel competent about somehting. Most of the guides/outfitters around here are just as lazy as anyone else. You see them driving around quite a bit with their clients. I saw a guide and his client glassing a field where I hunt whitetails one day right at sunrise. They sure as hell didn't have permission to hunt there, and it says quite a bit about the guide to be glassing a place from the highway where he can't hunt, during the best time of the day to be out on FOOT! I hope his client was pissed. I respect the guide/outfitter who packs hunters way into the backcountry on horses to hunt for several days out of a remote camp. Those guys work their butts off, and the bad ones get washed out quickly. But the eastern plains deer/antelope guide is nothing but a parasite who cares about nothing except making a buck. Their hunting skills are laughable, their people skills stink, and I don't care for their ethics. Their hunters stay in motels, buy and cook their own food, and usually just care about pulling the trigger. All these guides/outfitters are good at is fucking the local guy out of places to hunt by leasing up every square inch of land he can, and then finding ways to piss off the landowner. You wonder why the number of young hunters is on the decline... We all used to blame bad families and kids now growing up in the cities, but the cost now associated with entering someone's private property is pretty darn prohibitive these days. I blame much of this on outfitters. Some day they will scratch their heads and wonder where all the hunters are, and will be worried about paying for all those fancy leases. The hunters will be gone, because today's generation won't be interested in paying big bucks to play. I bet if every kid and parent had to pay $2500 to a "trainer" to teach their kid to play soccer, kids would just do other sports instead. "Happy birthday son! You are finally old enough to go deer hunting! We got you a license, a rifle, and knife, and you've been practicing with that rifle and now you are ready to go hunting! You have been saving your leftover lunch money since the first grade so you can pay the outfitter right? Oh, no, you are short $200. Maybe if you are nice to the outfitter man, or his booking agent, he will let you shoot a doe, and you can pay him the rest of the balance when you save the rest of the money."

Ok, now I'm mad and better stop. Thanks for ruining my morning Madgoat.

I'm a resident of Colorado and had some of the same experiences, one this year. Have also seen outfitters run chains across county unimproved roads and put up signs that convey the message that it is private land. Also, this year, heard them using radios of where animals were on both private and public lands. A very illegal activity.
On the other hand, I've seen other outfitters who are reputable and fair. Too bad that the jerks ruin it for the good ones.

Yellowstone stated it all pretty well as far as Montana . I had an interesting situation this year when I caught a local "Outfitter" hunting his dude on PUBLIC LAND.
After a short conversation with the Hunter it was apparent it was a Guided hunt. Now the local Guide shows up and immediately tries to cover his tracks blaming the Hunter for "getting lost".

Theres precious little Public Land worth a darn/accesible/etc and to now have to share it with a local Guide really ripped it for me.

This was one of the worst seasons I've ever had. Between trespassers, road hunters shooting at game that I'm stalking and a few other situatiuons it was very little relaxation and mostly stress.

FN in MT