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| one of us |
The expressed width of your question goes a bit beyond what most European hunters would be able to encounter, IMHO. Under these auspices, I would opt for a 8 x 60 S or 8 x 64 S. The action is fairly irrelevant to me, as long as it is turnbolt. No straight-pull (even though I own three of them), no sheet-metal & plastic junk. 6 x 42 fixed magnification Zeiss Diatal or old Zeiss Hensoldt scope with EAW mounts. Good open sights (R�Z or comparable). For slightly more "modest" Central European conditions, the 8 x 57 IS and the 9,3 x 62 would both be very versatile. Regards and Weidmannsheil, Carcano carcano91@hotmail.com Regards, [ 06-11-2002, 22:51: Message edited by: carcano91 ] | |||
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| Moderator |
Stainless SS rifle, probably a Tikka in 30-06. Scope would be a Swarovski 3-10x42PH | |||
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| one of us |
From one, who knows: If I invite 5 fellow hunters there is a fair chance, all of them and I myself will show up with an �06. Steyrs mostly, no complaints about them. The Sauer 202 is gaining in acceptance, but that stock is early Monte Carlo design ( = forget it! ). Some CZ�s, some Blasers. ( there was much talk awhile back at these forums about the SHR. Now nobody talks about them - ? ). Both makes also in combo guns. Some Zoli combo guns. In combo guns the 7x65R dominates. Lately the .30 R Blaser. 30 years back the 7x64 was the big favourite. Nowadays shifting from �06 to .300 Win Mag. The 9.3 ( x74R and especially x62 ) is gaining in sympathy. Scopes earlier were 6x42, mostly Kahles. Nowadays Swarovski and Kahles, shift from 8x56 to 3-12x56, mostly with illuminated dot. Shotguns are 95 % 12 ga O/U. No Pumps in middle Europe for hunting! Hermann | |||
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Sako stainless. 308win Zeiss 1-6x42 or simulare. 180 grain bullets. Laupa mega for big game and laupa trainer for smallgame. Johan [ 06-12-2002, 10:50: Message edited by: 308winchester ] | |||
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PCH, For what you required the .300 Win mag is the most versatile caliber. This choice is only for huge weight bullets for this caliber, can be use to hunt in the EU montain at long distance. I know it is not an EU caliber but for what you want to do it is hard to find the reight caliber. Not sure that you can buy it so easy in Europe. In some countries yes and in others for sure not. | |||
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| one of us |
Forget about 30-06 if you plan to use the rifle in ALL Europe : this caliber is forbidden in France (and there is some game to bag in my country) for hunting because it's a military one. If it must take from fox to bear, from point blank shot on a running boar to 500 m shot on chamois, you need something potent and flat-shooting : 7 RM, any .300 mag, 8X68S. The scope must be polyvalent : 1.5-6X42. All weather? Damn hot and dry for September monterias in Andalusia or bloody cold and wet in Sweden? The stock : synthetic, and the barrel : stainless. And last but not least, for all of us unlucky guys : must be available in left-hand version. ANY MODEL THAT DOESN'T EXIST IN LEFT-HAND IS THE WORST RIFLE IN THE WORLD ![[Mad]](images/icons/mad.gif){kind=icon} | |||
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| one of us |
7x57 proofed and stamped 275rigby (for France) in a good walnut stock, 1.5-6x42 swarovski in steel mounts, no irons. How long before Swarovski do a 1.5-5x42 in the AV with a 1" tube? | |||
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| one of us |
King Baboon, Forget about 30-06 if you plan to use the rifle in ALL Europe : this caliber is forbidden in France (and there is some game to bag in my country) for hunting because it's a military one. [/QUOTE] In Belgium 30-06,308 and 223 are a military calibers, so restricted | |||
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| one of us |
For a small framed or recoil sensible hunter I would say a 7x64. Also if moose or bear hunts are exceptional and not the norm. Otherwise a 8x68S. Scope? I would flip a coin between Zeiss, Swarovski, Schmidt&Bender, and Kahles on EAW mounts. The rifle would be a work from one custom shop such as Francotte, Mahillon, etc. on a 98 system, slender lothar walther barrel and double set triggers. montero | |||
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| one of us |
Quite a challenge, but I would also go for the 8x68S in a M98 / BRNO 601 action. Scope..Zeiss 1,5-6x42 no.4 reticle. I never stop wondering about the banning of "military" ( ex and present ) calibers in some of the European countrys. It seems so totally out of place IMHO. ![[Confused]](images/icons/confused.gif){kind=icon} Are they expecting some sort of revolt, revolution or armed militzia takeover ?But then...the lawmakers probably know something that I don�t...or do they ??? | |||
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Forget the above ! Want one rifle for all, then you want it chambered in an universal caliber, period. But, I have a question : what's the universal caliber ? "I" don't know, been looking after it for decades but never found anything that wasn't a bastard compromise and that's why, today,I own several rifles, each one of them balanced for a certain game/weight class. | |||
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| one of us |
My choice would be a Blaser K95 or R93 in either 30-06 or one of the 300 mags. Swarovski or Kahles or Zeiss scope in a 1x5 (or as close to that as possible) configuration. It's available in LH too for those that need it. Extra barrels in other calibers make it better able to handle the varying needs. | |||
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| <PCH> |
Interesting replys. What calibres are considered military in France? 7X57, 8X57, 6,5X55? I just remembered that in Ireland you're not allowed to use a calibre bigger than 270 (utterly stupid idea!) and Ireland got a lot of deer as far as I know. So to be able to cover everything in europe with one calibre you'll be pretty limited. I'll guess a 6,5X55 (if legal in France)would be my choice. | ||
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| one of us |
PCH It's not so you'd have to go 6.5x57. Maybe our Deutche bretheren can help out but I seem to remember that less than 7mm (and hence less than 7x57) is frowned upon for boar - hence my choice of 275rigby which is just a different name for 7x57 but allows it in all those countries that have bans on ex military rounds. | |||
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| One of Us |
Since Europeans often have a restriction placed upon the # of guns that can be owned, I would choose a Blaser R93 and then pick up .416 Rem mag, .300 Win mag, and .222 bbls. JMHO, JohnTheGreek | |||
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Carcano what's an R�Z open sights , why EAW scope mounts nad not ERA ? also ERA produces the best open sight to my taste. I agree with Montero 7 x 64 as Universalkaliber if Moose are not on the diet , and 8 x 68 if you want a big all around caliber. Also you can't hunt as a traveling hunter in France with a 30'06 ? Saludos Cordiales Daniel | |||
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| one of us |
I'm not European, and I've never hunted there, but it seems to me that if you want one rifle for everything, you couldn't do better than a .270 Winchester. It's not overpowered, too heavy-kicking, and over-loud for a lot of target shooting and for small and medium sized deer and other animals. It is sufficient for even large moose and bear (although something larger would no doubt be better for the largest of those). It was never a military cartridge, so it will not fall afoul of bans on military cartridges, and it doesn't go against Ireland's ban on anything larger than the .270. It is capable of excellent accuracy, and has a trajectory as flat as most of the 7mm and 30 caliber magnums, out to 300 or even 400 meters, anyway. Since its introduction about 1925, it has become a world favorite for hunting of everything up to elk and even larger. And -- not least! -- it is not a metric! ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif){kind=icon} Get it in any bolt action stainless rifle with synthetic stock, and any good scope -- Zeiss, Khales, Swarovski, or others -- that gives you something in the range of about 2 to about 7 power, and you'd be in business for everything in Europe, almost everything in North America, much of what can be hunted in Africa (see Saeed's success there with his .270), Asia, or anywhere else in the world where hunting can take place. [ 06-14-2002, 03:35: Message edited by: LE270 ] | |||
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| <martin f> |
Those "universal rifle" topics are always interesting, but also to some extent academic. The question appeals to all rifle nuts, but then a rifle nut needs little reason to have more than one rifle! And not all European countries have limitations on the number of guns owned. Anyway, my choice was: M98 action .30-06 (8x64S would be nice, but is not "universal", IMO - you need to handload) 26'' heavy sporter barrel (I like somewhat muzzle-heavy rifles) Timney trigger (no set triggers, please) wooden stock (maybe not so practical, but nice) open sights: front medium-sized bead, rear shallow V scope: 2.2-9x42 Swarowski mounts: EAW swing mounts, somewhat customized (standard EAW mounts are too high). I acknowledge the piece is on the heavy side for mountain hunting (but manageable, if you are in decent physical shape), and I did not think about France. I had that rifle built as my "universal" rifle, but of course, I "need" some more rifles. Martin | ||
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Martin F Cut two inches - no! Hell this is a European thread! I'll say it - 6 centimetres , off that rifle barrel you mention and you have got just about perfect universal Euro rifle. Although having said that a 300H&H would be good too... | |||
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| <martin f> |
Deerdogs, cut 2 inches - no way! Actually I'm pretty tall (196 cm, now what's that in feet and inches?), so that rifle is well in proportion with me. Martin | ||
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| <Dice2> |
Now what is wrong with a 7.62 (308)? I would think that this would be an ideal caliber for Europe. Loaded with 150 & 180 grain bullets it would seem to me to be able to handle anything in Europe. | ||
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| one of us |
I think our major problem here is, there are certain countries' laws our one universal rifle hunter will have to abide by; ie as was said before, France doesn't allow any military caliber, Ireland doesn't allow anything over .270 caliber, and i believe (correct me if I'm wrong) iceland doesn't allow anything over .30 cal. so i would suggest you decide which countries our one gun hunter is going to hunt, and if he will hunt all of them, so certain ones and leave out others. | |||
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| one of us |
quote:It would seem to be a good choice, as would the .30-06, but, as others have written, some countries have bans on any caliber that was/is a military one. That rules out the .308, the .30-06, the 7X57, the 8X57, the 6.5X55, the .223, and the .303 British. It would allow the .270, the 7X64, the various 6.5mm and 7mm magnums, the .300 magnums, and anything larger than the 8X57. But, according to someone here, Ireland doesn't permit anything larger than the .270, so, if you want to be truly universal for Europe, it seems that the .270 is the only choice. Furthermore, it's a good choice, even apart from the various crazy laws and restrictions. | |||
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quote:It would be a darn good choice for a one gun battery on this side of the pond too. | |||
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| one of us |
I’d just as soon not go to Ireland for stalking! They have some great snipe shooting and the fishing is second to none, but deer stalking is at best mediocre and you may as well stay in Scotland and save the price of the ferry crossing. Actually, in Northern Ireland there is no such restriction in calibres. I shot my first deer there using a 300 Win Mag. It is only in the Republic that the 270 and below restriction applies. | |||
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PCH, you have made a pretty good choice, although some national rules put the limits at a .270Win, which is a bit too weak IMHO for boar, moose and bear. However with some skill and good bullets it can be fairly used. Your choice of 8x57IS is a lot better quite practically seen. But I do disagree a bit about the choice of scope. With that tiny little tube you limit your hunt to daylight. A 1,5-6x42 would be a better choice, and of course in a detachable mount, so you can use the iron sights too. Best regards, Fritz | |||
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| <martin f> |
On calibers and cartridges: my grandfathers had 8x57IS and 8x60R. My dad chose a 7x64. My brother has a .270 Win. I have a .30-06. To some extent choices are influenced by the intended hunting. If you anticipate more mountain hunting (and lighter game) you may tend towards a .270 or 7 mm. If you think more about Eastern and Northern Europe, you may tend towards a .30 or 8 mm cartridge. There also will be some sort of "fashion trend". In the case of my brother and myself, we simply had to do things a bit different than dad. I also have my dad's 7x64 now, a Sauer-Weatherby with 1.5-6x42 Hensoldt scope and Suhl claw mounts, almost 40 years old, still hard to beat. Again, these discussions are always fun. But at the end, all of these cartridges will work. Martin | ||
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| <Safarischorsch> |
quote:Hello! I would choose a Blaser R93 8x68S with illuminated Swarovski 2-10x56 or Zeiss 3-12x56 which is quite expensive but very accurate and good for hunting at night on boars. It is not a militry caliber is perfect for long distance shots and more hunters in europe use the 8x68s than the 270 win which is a little bit too weak for red deer and boar. [ 06-21-2002, 00:34: Message edited by: Safarischorsch ] | ||
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| one of us |
Hello Europe. I am curious, for those of you that have limits on number of guns you can own, how is the Blaser change barrel system handled? Is it considered one gun? Good hunting and shooting! DGK [ 06-20-2002, 15:58: Message edited by: 375hnh ] | |||
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| one of us |
UK - No each barrel requires the requisite 'slot' on the certificate. | |||
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| one of us |
So far, hunting guns are sold freely, albeit on registration, in this country (a pending law proposal may change that for the worse, though). Each barrel or gun part submitted to official proofing is treated as a weapon per se and registered. | |||
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| <Dutchgus> |
In Holland a hunter normally is allowed to have a maximum of 6 weapons (rifle or shotgun) on his permit. Interchangeable barrels need to be registered too, but they do not count as an extra weapon. This is one of the reasons for the Blaser being rather popular. BTW for me it would be the only reason, as I do not like their noisy action, (un)balance and cost/quality-wise high price. I would trade a new Blaser for a second hand Sauer 200/202 (that still has a good shooting barrel) anyday! Luckily for the Blaser shareholders, a lot of people will disagree with me on this. | ||
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| one of us |
In Spain we have no limits on rifles , a recent change in law permiting from five to no limits , and extra barrels don't count as an weapon you can have as many as five extra barrels per rifle , Blaser owner complaint that the cost of the extra barrel and Blaser scope mounts cost more than an complete extra rifle ![[Frown]](images/icons/frown.gif){kind=icon} .Daniel | |||
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| <Carl> |
7*64 fo course in an old Manlicher Schoenauer with a EWA twist of mount and a variable Zeiss with big enough lenses to use also at night for Pigs. Of course the nice wood Stock will have a "Schaft Magazin" and the rifle is fitted with open sights, just in case. A good Set trigger is standart stuff no need to mention. With this puppy you can take anything and everything from Wild Boar in Germany to Russian Brown Bear (which really ist the same as a Grizz)to Maral Stag or Argali in the Altais. If you prefer modern Rifles, look at Blaser and Heym just to name a couple. Happy hunting and safe trails, Carl. | ||
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