Unlike many here, I only have a few firearms. I upgraded from selling my 25/06 to a .338 Win. Mag. last year for bigger game, got it scoped up with a Leupold 3.5 X 10 X 50 and got it printing nicely on paper. I figured a 500-yard shot at a moose was within my potential.

So I got invited to deer camp and found myself in the Eastern Forest, sometimes standing on a logging track with nothing but hardwood thicket in front of me. The shots, if they came, would likely be 50 yards, max., up or down the track.

I had taken along my .30/.30 just in case I needed a shorter, faster gun in the bush, but each morning when it came time to choose, I picked up the .338.

So here's my question: when my .338 is set up for 200 yards and more with 250 gr. SGKs, what are the downsides of using the same set-up at short ranges in the bush?

FWIW, I never got a chance to shoot, our group going five deer for nine tags. Next year I'm inclined to take a shotgun for the heavy bush, but I am betting I'll still make the final decision to take the .338.

So, are the bullets going to expand? Splatter? What can I expect?

kk

Contact Sierra directly; they will have the most information (helpful information, that is) regarding the 250gr. GameKing in the .338.

I would use a 250gr. Swift A-Frame, but the GameKing may be perfectly capable.

George

KK, I too shoot the 338, and shoot the 250 grn Sierra Game king, check any ballistics tables for further review. Mine is sighted for a 260 yd zero, resulting in a point-blank range of about 320 yards. I think I used a 10" vital zone, and from muzzel to 320 yards the bullet will never be more than 5" above or below line of sight, whitetail sized animals you just sight the middle of the shoulder all the way out to 320 yards. The biggest challenge will be the scope that you want to use at 300 yards but then have to use at 30.

Gene

I have killed two elk with the 250 grain Sierra and it failed to expand on one at 350 yards but worked perfectly on another at 20 yards. I was pushing it to 2650 fps and the bullet hit no major bones on either elk, just ribs.

Fundamentally, there is no downside.

In reality, the .338 Winchester is very much like a bigger, more powerful version of the .30-06. The .338 Win. Mag. shooting 250 gr. bullets at 2700 fps. with a 200 yard zero is about like a .30-06 with 180's that's zeroed for 200 yards.

I've taken several mule deer with the .338 Winchester over the years using 210 gr. Nosler, 250 gr. Nosler, and 225 gr. Hornady bullets. Ranges varied between 50 and 200 yards. In every case the deer went down right away, and so-called "meat damage" was absolutely minimal. It's not at all "too big" for deer hunting, and by the way, neither is the .375 H&H for that matter.

So if you can shoot your rifle with complete confidence, there's absolutely no reason not to use a .338 Winchester for deer hunting. Those 250 gr. Sierras will work just fine.

AD

The .338/250gr. Sierra is made with a high antimony core (3%), as are the .375 Sierras. This hard core tends not to expand very quickly (but it can, although rarely, shatter). At short ranges, you should get enough expansion to deliver adequate shock to a whitetail. At longer ranges, I would prefer a "softer" bullet like a Nosler Partition or Ballist Tip or a Speer or Hornady for lighter game like whitetails.

As Allen says your load is just fine.

If I had a .338 Mag I might load up the 200 gr Hornady FN that's made for the .33 Winchester. At those ranges about 2500 fps impact velocity would be a nice load and not kick so bad either.

I would not carry a shotgun. I have them and they are not as neat as rifles! Sure enough you will come to a clearcut and there will be a buck at some distance. Over the years I have had a few shots around 200 yards in the Northern forests. It can happen.

The 200 and 210 bullets can, on ocassion, be very damaging to deer...The 250 gr. Nosler sometimes does not open well on deer and antelope, but mostly they all work on Whitetail....I would use the 250 gr. RN Hornady if I was you....I also like the 300 gr. Woodleigh bullet for anything. It may not open too much but it will leave a blood trail.

For your hunt a 30-30 sounds ideal to me.

I have to agree, I see NO downside.

I hunt with a .338 Win Mag quite a lot and would not trade mine for anything I can think of right now.

I have shot game with 200 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips, 215 grain Sierra BT's, 225 Nosler Partitions, 250 Sierra BT's, etc. and they all worked just fine.

Don't worry about that 250 Sierra expanding on a whitetail. It will do fine and ruin less meat than a lot of guns.

I have shot deer, elk, and wild hogs with the 250 Sierra and have never had a complaint. I went to Wyoming once on a guided deer hunt. I showed up with my .338 Win Mag and the outfitter whined that I would not have any meat left if I shot a deer. Well, I wound up shooting a hell of a nice mule deer with a 250 Sierra and he was quite impressed. The buck dropped in his tracks and there was darned little meat lost.

Just turn that big scope down to a low power and give them hell.

R F

You guys are absolutely wrong!!! There is a downside. Continual usage of this set-up is going to increase the amount of time this gentleman has to spend field-dressing and packing out animals!!!

2nd

KK...I am thinking what a wonderful oportunity you have to use your 30-30.
Take care
smallfry

I see no downside to the cartridge. To me the handling qualities of the rifle is more of an issue. To me a good eastern deer rifle should handle like a good bird gun. Shots are much more likely to be short, quick, and with you twisted around in an awkward position. Then again I carried my .375 in the Michigan woods a few times this year just to take it along.

Jeff

I have used the 338 and 250 SGK in 1 mule deer buck and one whitetail buck. It worked well on both, however,it did not exit on the mule deer with a quartering shot. The bullet expanded well (almost too well) and penetrated from hip to shoulder but did not exit. Neither deer had excessive amounts of ruined meat.

First of all, in my opinion, you've got way too much scope on your .338 !!! I've got a Leupold 2x7 on my .338 and feel it's ideal for the caliber and the game you're most likely to hunt with it(moose, elk, brown bear).I've used mine in Maine and at 2x, I've got a real wide field of vision for the thick stuff. Second of all, what's with the 250 gr bullet ???? You going after Polar bears or something ???? I use Nosler 210 Partitions in my .338 A-Bolt at 3050 fps from its 26" barrel. I killed a very large Az bull elk ( over 1000 lbs, according to the guide) and this load literally slammed him to the ground. I suppose if you like the extra recoil and the not-as-flat trajectory, then 250 gr is ok. The only time I felt like I needed more scope was when I used it to take a mule deer at a ranged 435 yds !!! I had it on 7, but was wishing for more power since the crosshasirs covered a large portion of the deer. An elk, however at 400 yards is just fine with 7 power on the scope, much bigger animal.

bowhuntr

[ 12-05-2002, 02:54: Message edited by: bowhuntrrl ]

Hi, Bowhuntr:

I agree I have too much scope. As I said, I had no idea what I would be getting into. However, at 3.5X, it can hardly be called "way too much." And, since most of my hunting will be at potentially longer ranges, I am not inclined to change it.

Your points on recoil are good, too, but oddly, there is very little felt recoil for me with this gun, whether off the bench or off-hand.

My big concern with going to a smaller bullet would be whether there would be enough mass to retain bullet shape on impact under 50 yards. Granted, I could download and act like I have two or three guns by which load I pick, but I would rather be confident of my system: One big rifle, one scope, one load. I don't see an extra 40 grains tearing up that much more meat than a 210 gr., especially if the velocity is slower.

Thanks, though, to everybody. Much to think about, and a whole winter ahead to think about it (except I may to go Florida in March and shoot a pig).

kk

....downside?
that it's not a 375.... or bigger

jeffe

The downside is Western rifles and not really the cartridge.

"Western rifles" tend to have longer and heavier barrels and this means that the rifle might have "heavy ends" which means poor balance. Such a rifle is slow to get on target and tiring to carry in your hands.

Another critical point is the length of pull. Eastern rifles should have a shorter than average length of pull so that they come up fast and also can be shot from difficult angles and in particular the sitting postition.

So unless you are very tall and that rifle fits you just right consider shortening the LOP. Of course you will leave the barrel alone. I deal with "Western rifles" in the forest as I can't help myself and I carry them at times for the fun of it.

They have been all over the scope as being too big but we are talking money here so just use the scope you have for now.

Downside? NONE!

Scope best suited for a 2 x 7 instead, as it will do for most any big game a normal distance and better in the black timber on elk.

Bullets? Nosler's Partition on the thin skinned animals. Swift A Frames for the big stuff like elk and moose.

Rifle Caliber? It is a solid 400 yard doer.

A .338 can make an excellent rifle for deer, no matter where you use it. Plenty of weight, energy, and diameter to do fatal damage when the hunter does his job. The only consideration is how well it handles. Generally, up here in mixed terrain (with both lots of brush and long cuts) I prefer a slightly lighter, shorter rifle, but if you can handle the .338 and it's packaging, you've got a great all-around rifle for anything in NA.

However, with great respect for the .30-30, I think it too would be excellent for deer in the short stuff as well. I know a gentleman in particular who hunts mixed terrain with his Marlin and uses 150gr. Nosler BT's, one loaded in the chamber and one quick follow up in the magazine. He says 200 yards is cake and has had excellent success with it. So equipped, on paper it looks just slightly less than a .300 Savage, which is plenty for 200 yard deer, so that's just something else to think about.

But, in reality, just about anything with enough weight and diameter, and a well-constructed bullet to hold up at close range, will be plenty for most deer hunting either east or west. Best of luck in the future!

I can't see a downside.When I got out of college the only rifle I had was a 338.I shot deer and antelope with it with 200 gr. Speer bullets and it performed great.It was accurate and there was little meat damage.Most critters dropped in their tracks.

I am an extreme advocate of using one bullet weight and one bullet (usually of the premium variety) in a particular rifle. It just saves a lot of screwing around messing with loads a scopes. I also believe you should have a rifle that doesn't shift point of impact on you after hunting in various climatic conditions, but this is a topic for another discussion.

I have been thinking of one caliber that might prove an exception to this way of thinking lately, and that is the 338 Winchester Magnum. Where I live, you can hunt everything from pronghorn to grizzly bears (dependant on drawing certain tags of course) so the "all around" gun is required to stretch a little. So here is my idea. I would build an 8.5 to 9lb (field ready) 338 WM on a model 70 classic action with a 24 inch barrel. It would be equipped with Talley mounts and two different scopes set in Talley QD rings with or without the levers. One scope would be in the 3-9X40 range and be sighted in with 190-210gr bullets for deer, sheep, pronghorn, etc and the other scope in the 2-7X30 range sighted in with 250gr bullets for elk, moose, and bear.

chuck

Chuk and Ray, you gentlemen think a lot like I do.

The .338 Winchester is really one of those dynamic few, world-class cartridges that you just can't go wrong with. As long as you stick with good bullets and you can shoot respectably, you're good to go.

Heck, the .338 Winchester is actually more versatile than the .30-06 is by a considerable degree. Now that statement will get the pilgrims all in an uproar, but it's the truth.....

AD

KK,

I shot the 338 almost exclusively here in AK for 12 years plus as my light rifle on 3 safaris. It easily can cover deer to eland in all types of conditions.

I would suggest a load with the 210 Nosler Partition and one with the 250 Nosler Partition. With both of these bullets you'll not have to worry about splatter at point blank range or expansion at 300 yd.

Your scope is quite large for woods hunting. Perhaps a second scope like a 1.5x5 in quick detacable mounts might be good.

If your on a budget what you have is fine for everything. Just practice with it. Dry firing as fast as you can acquire the target is a great help to me.

My only concern is the Sierra bullet. They will blow up at close range. Also I think if you do some honest long range shooting on a measured range you will find the 338 to be about a 350 yd rifle.

You have a great rig for North America and most of the world. Have fun.

If I was hunting deer in the eastern forrest I would regret trading my 25/06. The 3030 is the all time champ in the eastern forrest by the way!

The only down size I see is that I might want to site in in for a little close range not much over a inch high at a 100 other then that I see no trouble I aguired a 27 in 338 06 and have carryed that a few times in Wis brush and have shot deer with it. I hunt a lot with a savage 99 with a 24 in barrel and no trouble. I went through a short barrel faze I have several rifles with 18 19 20 in barrels. I am coming back to a little longer barrels just because they make less noise on the ears the short ones really bark. I do not find that the longer ones are not at a disadvange for handling. But hunt with want you want and enjoy it I find my self trying new guns all the time.

The gun and the caliber will work fine. Having said that, you were hunting in 30-30 territory. Few guns will be as fast or as effective under close quarter, fast shooting brush conditions as a Winchester, or Marlin lever gun, in 30-30. I'd have left the 338 in camp. (I have used a scoped 338WM in those conditions , for me anyway, I just didn't feel comfortable)

Cannuck, I got to disagree with you on the 30-30 lever gun. I have a little 338 caliber gun with 22 inch barrel and feather weight wood stock in a model 70 Winchester that is just as fast as any lever gun in the thick brush. She is my favorite hog killing weapon using a 250 grain bullet! It is by the way a 338/06, which is all honesty will do anything my other 338 mags will do up to 300 yards.

Chigger
I think you've been into the eggnog again.
You must be a very fast bolt man. There are few shotguns, that will point as fast as a '94.